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| Posted By : AlexMoisi - 3/27/2008 12:38 PM | | Wow...just wow...I am impresed with what people will submit and how ridiculous some cover leters are...How can someone expect you to take them seriously when they tell you to google their name for a full list of publications they are featured in.
How can people afford to haggle with an editor over a story?
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm making a huge error by refusing their story because they plan on selling it to Weird Tales, they just wanted me to have a first try at it.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm a ignorant becuase I didn't understand the subtle message underneath the words.
I recieved one e-mail telling me the author will never write a predictable story becuase that is boring and uselss and no one should desire that a character act in a manner that can be expected from him.
I recieved 20,000 word story when my guidelines state I acccept works up to 5000 words.
Someone told me to pick one of their stories from their frepress (I think) account and just send him the money for it....
Wow...just wow...
I expected it to be bad but not so bad...
|
| Posted By : Edward Knight - 3/27/2008 1:04 PM | I'm assuming you are a new venue. I can tell you that when we strated AJM four years ago we got the same kind of...crap.
It never stopped, but it has slowed once writers found out that we had no need for their...crap.
One of the worst things you can do is respond to the...crap. If you ignore it it will go away sooner. And the best thing you can do is send out a generic looking rejection within a day of getting...crap. That helps them understand you aren't buying what they are selling and that you won't bother with it.
Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
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| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/27/2008 1:05 PM | Holy cow. Where are you advertising for submissions? Even EDF doesn't have it THAT bad. It sounds horrendous!
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
|
| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/27/2008 1:14 PM |
Edward Knight said...
One of the worst things you can do is respond to the...crap. If you ignore it it will go away sooner. And the best thing you can do is send out a generic looking rejection within a day of getting...crap. That helps them understand you aren't buying what they are selling and that you won't bother with it. I agree... and disagree.
It is best not to respond to writers who snap at your rejections, but we have found a certain cathardic relief in posting their responses online (with names deleted, of course). A bit of an (anonymous) public shaming hopefully encourages them to keep their cool next time. If you don't have forums of your own, you're welcome to post them in EDF's forums on our Hall of Shame thread.
As for anonymous rejection slips.... that might make sense when you start to get as many subs as Ed gets. At EDF, we've found that our personal rejections are one of our biggest selling points. Plus you get an extra link on Duotrope's very short list of markets who respond with personal rejections.
Jordan Lapp Managing Editor
|
| Posted By : H.P. Lovesauce - 3/27/2008 1:19 PM | | Alex was adequately warned that when you stare into the abyss, it takes that as a sign of encouragement and dusts off its Tolkien-ripoff quest story to send to you. |
| Posted By : SilviaMG - 3/27/2008 2:41 PM | | Wow. That seems extreme. The other day I was thinking my cover letter lacked spunk but now I'm glad it's "Dear editor, please consider my (word count) submission titled (title)." |
| Posted By : darkbow - 3/27/2008 2:52 PM | "Dear editor,
Attached is my (word count and genre) story, "(title here)." I hope you will consider it for publication in (name of publication).
As for the writer, I have (recent 2 or 3 published credits).
Thank you for your time, and good reading to you.
Ty Johnston"
If they ask for more, such as a bio, I send it. Otherwise, what you see above is it. It might not be exciting, but I feel it gets the job done and the editor doesn't have to wade through a bunch of garbage. A few editors will say in their guidelines they specifically aren't interested in writing credits, and for them I just drop my list.
I have very, very rarely replied to a rejection, unless it happens to be from an editor I have an ongoing working relation with. Usually when I do reply it's to thank an editor for bringing to my attention a problem in a story that I had overlooked. I think maybe once I responded with an explanation about something because the editor seemed confused (not that it's the editor's fault ... I considered it my own fault for not writing clearer in the first place), and just wanted to clear it up because he seemed interested.
www.tyjohnston.blogspot.com
http://radiodarkbow.blogspot.com Two songs a day, every day.
"Walking Between the Rain" at Every Day Fiction on March 21, 2008
"Beneath a Persian Sun" upcoming in Carnivah House's "Infinity Swords" anthology
"Deep in the Land of the Ice and Snow" in "The Return of the Sword" anthology
"Hot Off the Press" Ray Gun Revival #25, 2007 |
| Posted By : Swashbuckler - 3/27/2008 3:16 PM | We didn't have much of that at all with our Carnivah House anthology, "The Infinity Swords."
We did have one fellow who wrote half a story in a day or two, and said he would write the rest if we bought it. After he received the rejection, he queried to see if we wanted to read the rest of the story. We didn't.
And we did have one sub with no author's name, until you got to the very end of the story. And a few queries from people who didn't include author's name or story title in the query, so I had to go back through email to learn who strangelyanonymouswriter@aol.yahoo.com was and what they had written just so I could answer a query.
And we had a few very obviously amateur subs (along with some pretty damned good ones we just couldn't afford to buy.)
But we got no nasty replies to rejections, and a handful of people who thanked us for suggestions and taking the time to read the story. So, overall, editing has been a pretty good experience so far.
Steve Goble
Visit my blog, Swords Against Boredom, for news on published fiction and upcoming stories. |
| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/27/2008 3:20 PM |
Swashbuckler said...
We did have one fellow who wrote half a story in a day or two, and said he would write the rest if we bought it. After he received the rejection, he queried to see if we wanted to read the rest of the story. We didn't.
This is purely awesome. Why didn't I think of doing that? Like a chump, I wrote the whole freaking story.  Of course, now I have something that, with some tweaking, might be right for S&S 23.
How did you reject him? A form rejection?
Jordan Lapp Managing Editor
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| Posted By : Edward Knight - 3/27/2008 4:29 PM |
Jordan Lapp said...
Edward Knight said...
One of the worst things you can do is respond to the...crap. If you ignore it it will go away sooner. And the best thing you can do is send out a generic looking rejection within a day of getting...crap. That helps them understand you aren't buying what they are selling and that you won't bother with it. I agree... and disagree.
It is best not to respond to writers who snap at your rejections, but we have found a certain cathardic relief in posting their responses online (with names deleted, of course). A bit of an (anonymous) public shaming hopefully encourages them to keep their cool next time. If you don't have forums of your own, you're welcome to post them in EDF's forums on our Hall of Shame thread.
As for anonymous rejection slips.... that might make sense when you start to get as many subs as Ed gets. At EDF, we've found that our personal rejections are one of our biggest selling points. Plus you get an extra link on Duotrope's very short list of markets who respond with personal rejections.
Oh, I give personal replies to many writers who submit properly. It's the one that send really stupid stuff that get little attention. I don't mean stupid writing I mean stupid request such as "read this story on my website."
I don't think I'd do the "shame" thing. Many writers will try to do the old get even thing by bad mouthing your press at every opportunity. I still think t best to just ignore them.
Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
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| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/27/2008 5:06 PM |
Edward Knight said...
I don't think I'd do the "shame" thing. Many writers will try to do the old get even thing by bad mouthing your press at every opportunity. I still think t best to just ignore them.
Hmmm... since we post anonymously, I didn't figure people would "out" themselves by doing that kind of thing. I guess I overestimate pissed off writers. :(
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
|
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 3/27/2008 5:18 PM | Should have sent him half a rejection, Steve.
Boy am I glad I'm not reading slush anymore, though I never got anything quite as mental as what you're getting, Alex.
I recommend you start adding to that 'blocked senders' list.
billwardwriter.com |
| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/27/2008 7:13 PM | You got a 200 word flash story kicking around, Ty? :)
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
|
| Posted By : nathan - 3/27/2008 7:39 PM |
AlexMoisi said...
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm a ignorant becuase I didn't understand the subtle message underneath the words. Okay, okay--I know this an editors thread, lol. But I will admit to feeling slightly frustrated when editors seem to miss allusion, methaphor or literary reference.
Now, everybody can't have read everything, or remember all of everything they've ever read, let's be fair. And sometimes what is seen as obvious to the person in the know (the writer) is extremely obstuse (sic subtle) to the person not in the know (the editor) who's just read 50k in words before they got to the story.
But I'll be honest--and of course no editor whoever posts on this board falls into this category--I've had editors who seemed woefully ignorant of the genre they're soliciting stories within. As if their frame of reference was last weeks NYT best seller list...and only that. Who would miss symbolism lifted straight out of say, the Young Goodman Brown, or a stylistic device from Occurance At Owl Creek.
Fair or not, being an editor is seen as an intellectual and academic postion--as oppossed to, say, digging a ditch and when editors seem unaware or shallow (ecspecially in the confines of their own genre) and (dare I say it) not very well read, then the reaction from a submitting writer can range from bemusement to active wall banging with your head.
On the other hand Ed Knight once told me got a submission written entirely in crayon.
VIEW IMAGE"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." |
| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/27/2008 7:45 PM | Here an editor's quandry: While THEY might understand every little literary reference, as you point out, they are probably literary or academic and their audience isn't.
EDF turns down tons of stories about writers, even if they're well written, because the average non-writer (aka the public) won't grok them. Stories with inside jokes or metaphors are booted too, unless I think Joe Public will appreciate them. Now, our readers generally aren't the same people who love Smackdown or RAW, so you can assume SOME sophistication, but if you want to appeal to a broad audience, you tend to pass on the literary references.
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
|
| Posted By : nathan - 3/27/2008 7:50 PM |
Nathan said...
--and of course no editor whoever posts on this board falls into this category--
VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." |
| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/27/2008 7:52 PM | Lol. Of course, I knew you were referring to "THEM", I was just saying that I have had to turn down great pieces because I felt like, even though I thought they were hilarious, the public wouldn't get them.
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
|
| Posted By : nathan - 3/27/2008 7:55 PM | Ah...the arrogant paternalism of academia toward the lowly bourgeois. What are you? Canadian?
[insert yellow head with tounge sticking out emoticon]
VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." |
| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/27/2008 7:56 PM | Well, geographically speaking, we do look "down" on you Americans. ;)
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
|
| Posted By : nathan - 3/27/2008 7:59 PM | Topograph-ist!
Why must one assume north is up! Latitude is not Altitude!
Oh, never mind.
VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." |
| Posted By : Edward Knight - 3/27/2008 11:47 PM |
Jordan Lapp said...
Edward Knight said...
I don't think I'd do the "shame" thing. Many writers will try to do the old get even thing by bad mouthing your press at every opportunity. I still think t best to just ignore them.
Hmmm... since we post anonymously, I didn't figure people would "out" themselves by doing that kind of thing. I guess I overestimate pissed off writers. :(
Oh you'd be surprised. Some people who don't like the position you take or who take your comments and discussions the wrong way can really hurt your reputation. They blog... and then those blogs are reposted on other blogs and websites. Hell, before you know it when you do a web search for a publisher or one of their titles all you get is a string of negative comments that all come from the same source. It's amazing how one ticked off person can tarnish your reputation just because they didn't like something you said or did. You might spend 12 years building a pretty good publisher reputation just to have somebody post a damaging blog that might take months or years to correct. In the small press world every negative comment about your press and your publications can really hurt your business. Know what I mean?
Edward Knight
Editor
Journey Books Publishing
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| Posted By : Wes - 3/28/2008 2:51 AM |
Tell you what: someone send me some money, and if I like how it spends, I'll scribble out a story and mail it to you (assuming you'll spring for postage, of course).
After all, it's the very least I can do. 
Wesley Lambert
Recent publications:
"The Reluctant Viking," in Flashing Swords
"A Darkness on the Deep," Strange Stories of Sand and Sea |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 3/28/2008 3:12 AM | AlexMoisi said...
Wow...just wow...I am impresed with what people will submit and how ridiculous some cover leters are...How can someone expect you to take them seriously when they tell you to google their name for a full list of publications they are featured in.
I'd much rather have someone tell me that, than send me a long list of publication credits with their submission. Course I ignore both and concentrate on the story they sent, but still...
AlexMoisi said...
How can people afford to haggle with an editor over a story?
I guess it tells you whether they really care if you publish their story, or not.
AlexMoisi said...
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm making a huge error by refusing their story because they plan on selling it to Weird Tales, they just wanted me to have a first try at it.
pat them on the head and wish them success.
AlexMoisi said...
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm a ignorant becuase I didn't understand the subtle message underneath the words.
reply back and ask them if they understood the subtle message underneath your rejection.
AlexMoisi said...
I recieved one e-mail telling me the author will never write a predictable story becuase that is boring and uselss and no one should desire that a character act in a manner that can be expected from him.
reply back and send condolences to his family members, and boss, none of which obviously can predict how he's going to act. Then quote dogbert and tell him not to let you stand in the way of his search to find someone who cares.
AlexMoisi said...
I recieved 20,000 word story when my guidelines state I acccept works up to 5000 words.
write back and ask the author which 5000 words in it he wanted you to read.
AlexMoisi said...
Someone told me to pick one of their stories from their frepress (I think) account and just send him the money for it....
send him a .jpg of a dollar bill and ask if he wants fries with that.
AlexMoisi said...
I expected it to be bad but not so bad...
People are people no matter what industry you're in. Be glad you're not coaching little league, and dealing with irate, clueless parents. |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 3/28/2008 3:17 AM | Jordan Lapp said...Edward Knight said...
I don't think I'd do the "shame" thing. Many writers will try to do the old get even thing by bad mouthing your press at every opportunity. I still think t best to just ignore them.
I did warn you about not doing that when you started it, Jordan. You'd better believe people will 'out' themselves. And they'll twist the facts around while doing so to make you look really bad and themselves the poor victims. |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 3/28/2008 1:40 PM |
Jordan Lapp said...
Edward Knight said...
One of the worst things you can do is respond to the...crap. If you ignore it it will go away sooner. And the best thing you can do is send out a generic looking rejection within a day of getting...crap. That helps them understand you aren't buying what they are selling and that you won't bother with it. I agree... and disagree.
It is best not to respond to writers who snap at your rejections, but we have found a certain cathardic relief in posting their responses online (with names deleted, of course). A bit of an (anonymous) public shaming hopefully encourages them to keep their cool next time. If you don't have forums of your own, you're welcome to post them in EDF's forums on our Hall of Shame thread.
As for anonymous rejection slips.... that might make sense when you start to get as many subs as Ed gets. At EDF, we've found that our personal rejections are one of our biggest selling points. Plus you get an extra link on Duotrope's very short list of markets who respond with personal rejections.
SIDE COMMENT: Jordan, your link took me to the list of response times - and EDF is nice and swift. But when I do the drop down menu of markets that use personal responses, EDF is absent . . . but Flashing Swords is present! http://www.duotrope.com/rtstats.aspx 
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
|
| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/28/2008 1:45 PM | Weird. It was there when I clicked on the link, and when I go to our page, it lists 92.5% personal, 0% form, and 7.5% unspecified.
Ah, that explains it. It wants higher than 94% personal. They really need to look at the percentage of form responses, because sometimes authors don't report personal responses.
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
|
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 3/28/2008 1:57 PM | agreed. though I am actually surprised they require that high a number. I'd be satisfied with a 75% or better, and see them listed with those percentages revealed.
Either way, congrats to you sir, for the fine showing EDF is having.
Regarding this initial post - I'm all for ignoring such nonsense, too. But I'll tell ya, when I started doing this stuff, I was shocked by the lack of decorum and even common sense by the mass of submitters. Until I realized they're no different than the rest of humanity - though I did anticipate better, due to my expectations of at least literate (as in semi-educated) people trying to get themselves into something they want in to. I mean, geez! These are people who would dress to the nines and stand in line and pay a cover charge to get into a hot, happening club! The fact they can't relate the two concepts just boggles the mind.
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
|
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 3/28/2008 7:11 PM | You got it, baby!
<That'll be $20.00>
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
|
| Posted By : Charles Gramlich - 4/18/2008 1:28 AM | I'm thinking about considering the possibility of maybe writing a 25 book heroic fantasy cycle. I'm willing to come down from my high horse to accept half my usual requested fee of 1 buck a word so I'm sure that several thousand editors will be lining up to pay me before I even actually have to put down any words. If there aren't any takers here I'll just sell the idea directly to the movies.
So, any takers?
Any one?
Bueller. Bueller.
Charles Gramlich
|
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 4/18/2008 10:00 AM | Sorry, I'm only looking for a 42-book cycle.
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
|
| Posted By : Jaqhama - 5/10/2008 5:46 AM |
AlexMoisi said...
Wow...just wow...I am impresed with what people will submit and how ridiculous some cover leters are...How can someone expect you to take them seriously when they tell you to google their name for a full list of publications they are featured in.
This is standard practice on the internet for all sorts of business people and personalities.
You want to know who Keith ball is and what's he doing in business or writing?
You type Keith Ball into a search engine.
Type my name into google and you'll find all the motorcycle stuff I do and all the stories I've written or had published.
I'm surprised that you're surprised and have a problem with this type of self promotion?
I'm also surprised that you don't take people who make this suggestion seriously?
This is the 21 st century. This is the time of the world wide web.
Immerse yourself in internet etiquette and see how many of us utilise it.
And your forum signature here says:
Is this not almost the same thing as the fellow who asked you to google his name to find out about his previous works?
You are asking people to click that link. I see little difference between the two suggestions?
How can people afford to haggle with an editor over a story?
Because they care enough about their writing to do so.
And Editors aren't demi-gods.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm making a huge error by refusing their story because they plan on selling it to Weird Tales, they just wanted me to have a first try at it.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm a ignorant becuase I didn't understand the subtle message underneath the words.
I recieved one e-mail telling me the author will never write a predictable story becuase that is boring and uselss and no one should desire that a character act in a manner that can be expected from him.
I recieved 20,000 word story when my guidelines state I acccept works up to 5000 words.
So if it's a good story...serialise it.
Someone told me to pick one of their stories from their frepress (I think) account and just send him the money for it....
I admire his confidence. Did you bother to go and read any of his stories?
Maybe they are superb...you won't know until you check.
Wow...just wow...
I expected it to be bad but not so bad...
I always expected that sci-fi and fantasy editors with webzines would pay more money for stories. I wouldn't be so critical of the writers submitting stuff to you if you're paying nothing or peanuts.
Cheers: Jaq.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
|
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 5/10/2008 11:43 AM |
Jaqhama said...
AlexMoisi said...
Wow...just wow...I am impresed with what people will submit and how ridiculous some cover leters are...How can someone expect you to take them seriously when they tell you to google their name for a full list of publications they are featured in.
This is standard practice on the internet for all sorts of business people and personalities.
You want to know who Keith ball is and what's he doing in business or writing?
You type Keith Ball into a search engine.
Type my name into google and you'll find all the motorcycle stuff I do and all the stories I've written or had published.
I'm surprised that you're surprised and have a problem with this type of self promotion?
I'm also surprised that you don't take people who make this suggestion seriously?
This is the 21 st century. This is the time of the world wide web.
Immerse yourself in internet etiquette and see how many of us utilise it.
And your forum signature here says:
Is this not almost the same thing as the fellow who asked you to google his name to find out about his previous works?
You are asking people to click that link. I see little difference between the two suggestions?
While all the above is true, Jaq, there is one fundamental element that is missing and is actually rather key to the whole thing: It is the attitude of the submitter (be it a cover letter for anything - resume, story submission, application, whatever). Whoever the submitter may or may not be, he/she has made the decision NOT to do the work of completing their resume/reasons for recommendation, and instead has foisted that labor off onto the person receiving and reading their application. That smacks of arrogance to me. And until anyone can guarantee that I won't waste time on dead links, inaccurate links, links that require log-ins, and links that won't require me to search a whole website for a particular reference - I won't accept their laziness and do their work for them. I've no time to. If you want me to look at yourself or your work, you should make every effort to give it to me the way I ask for it. If you don't care whether I accept it or not, don't bother sending it then. Neither of us need each other. At the very least, if someone is too lazy or considers their time more important than that of the person they are submitting to, they could follow AlexMoisi's example. He provides a direct link to his specifically defined site, telling me in advance what I'm going to find there and not making me search for a single thing. Hopefully, if he were to include that link in a resume he would not refer to himself as negatively, though. Perceptions, good sir; it's many times the deciding factor.
How can people afford to haggle with an editor over a story?
Because they care enough about their writing to do so.
And Editors aren't demi-gods.
Very true, both statements.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm making a huge error by refusing their story because they plan on selling it to Weird Tales, they just wanted me to have a first try at it.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm a ignorant becuase I didn't understand the subtle message underneath the words.
I recieved one e-mail telling me the author will never write a predictable story becuase that is boring and uselss and no one should desire that a character act in a manner that can be expected from him.
I recieved 20,000 word story when my guidelines state I acccept works up to 5000 words.
So if it's a good story...serialise it.
The above, however, are ridiculous statements to send back to an editor. These aren't haggling with an editor because they care enough about their writing. Once again, they are arrogant snipes uttered in ignorance and based upon assumption.
And you want me to read somebody's 20k piece to serialize it when I specifically say I only want up to 5k works? The arrogance of the sender is again amazing. What about the (at least) 4 other authors who did send me what I asked for and are patiently waiting for my reply? Not to mention my life situation or even my talents as an editor? It takes a different amount of concentration and level of editing to burn through four 5k pieces which are separate and distinct works then it does to churn through one 20k piece ensuring continuity and coherence. Where's the simple respect for and appreciation of the editor's time and life? The reasons behind stated submission guidelines aren't arbitrary - they at least have reason to that editor. No one forces anyone to submit there - if you don't wish to follow the guidelines, be decent enough not to submit there then - forcing your arrogant methods on me is rude and disrespectful. When you come to my house and I ask you to remove your shoes, I sure hope you respect me enough to do so. Cuz if you don't, you ain't coming in.
It all centers around who is coming to who - as it should. You come to me - you do it my way as much as possible. I come to you - ball's in your court now.
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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| Posted By : Jaqhama - 5/10/2008 1:24 PM | I don't actually disagree with any of your thoughts Jason.
The google a name thing is a common trend on forums now, a link is better, the best is both. Just depends on how interested you are in the persons submittal I guess.
The 20,000 words...hmmm....I'd have emailed the editor first and suggested the serial ideal.
Think on it this way...if part one is a good story...then at least you know you're covered for a good story for the next four issues.
Just a different way of considering a longer story submission is all.
But as I said on another thread...It's the editor's webzine...they are entitled to do what they want.
I tend to side with the writers more than the editors as you've probably guessed.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
|
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 5/10/2008 2:03 PM | | Regarding the 20k piece, you are right and I meant to say the same. Receiving a query about something like that and giving me the editor the chance to at least know about it in advance makes a huge difference. I'm totally open to that.
And I also agree with you in the sense that the less an editor/publisher pays and/or does for its authors, the less demanding he/she/it should be. To a degree. That is a hard line to stick to, though, when you are a small press editor who would love to be able to afford to pay more to his authors but there just ain't money to do it with. When submissions are pouring over the windowsills though, as they continue to pile up in droves, it's rather hard for an editor not to reject reading the 20k manuscript in favor of reading the five 4k manuscripts on either side of it simply out of an "You've got to be kidding me!?" mentality. It all comes down to practicality and time, and I'm often out of both
I believe I side more often than not with "the writers" than "the editors" - Though I'm enjoying it, I'm the latter by accident and still trying to become the former. I believe that the better I do my editing/publishing/promoting tasks, the better I serve the authors who come to me. I believe that the more quality product I can put out the better it will be for my authors. So I believe the better FSP becomes, the better off its authors will become.
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Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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| Posted By : Bill Ward - 5/10/2008 3:39 PM | It's not about taking sides, its about seeing both sides. Jaq, don't take this the wrong way, but based on your comments I think you'd really get a lot from a stint reading slush somewhere; it would open your eyes to what editors have to deal with, and why they get irritated by the stuff they do. Trust me, it doesn't take long before crap like people not following directions and being arrogant and rude (and usually having ability in inverse proportion to their swagger) will get right up your nose. And remember, on your side of the equation it's a one on one encounter, on the editor's it's a one on dozens or hundreds or thousands -- you can't make exceptions for everyone, or deal with everyone on a personal basis.
billwardwriter.com |
| Posted By : R. L. Copple - 5/11/2008 10:48 PM | Bill's right. Being an editor, even though we don't have thousands or even hundreds of submissions, I only have so much time I can devote to it, I'm doing it on a volunteer basis. The bottom line is, if a submitter is serious about the editor taking a look at his or her work, they will make it as painless on the editor as possible, by following the rules. It simply gives one a better chance of success. I certainly wouldn't have time to google everyone's submission.
But, and the other not mentioned thing, as an author, I wouldn't want to request they google my name. Not because I have anything to hide, but because they'll get other stuff, maybe someone else who isn't me but matches the name somewhere down the road. No telling what might turn up that gets misunderstood. As a writer, I think that would leave too much open to chance. Best to include any needed info in the submission so they don't have to go looking for it, because they won't go looking for it, they'll just move onto the next one at the worst or ignore it at best. If it is in the cover letter, then they may read it. The only time I go googling or clicking on links in a submission is if I suspect plagiarism, or that it is a reprint they failed to tell us it was.
R. L. Copple
blog.rlcopple.com
www.raygunradio.com
www.haruah.com
Infinite Realities available at Amazon.com |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 5/11/2008 11:29 PM | My personal opinion only:
re: 20K stories - go right on and send them. I stop paying at 6K but I'll be more than happy for you to send them if you want. I'll figure out how to print them if they're good.
re: including your credits, telling me to look you up on google or other such things: Not sure what that has to do with your story. I'm not interested in what you have previously published, I'm only interested in what you want me to look at right now.
re: telling me off if I tell you I'm not interested/ask you for a revision: Umm right. You know, I spanked my kids for that kind of behavior. But at least they had an excuse, they were kids. You, however, are an adult and I expect you to act like one. Manners, while sadly lacking in our world, are not optional if you don't want me to flag your email address and automatically shuttle anything from it into my spam folder.
Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!
Managing Editor of Flashing Swords
Visit my art gallery on art wanted
All my books in print |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 5/12/2008 12:49 AM | And so speaks another Mother on her (American) day! Bravo!
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Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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| Posted By : Rob Santa - 5/14/2008 8:17 AM | For fear of this dissolving into a not-so-serious discussion about the behaviors of editors and their relationships with writers...are you telling me I'm not getting spanked now?
Rob Santa
Hopelessly Addicted Writer of Speculative Fiction
and CEO of Ricasso Press |
| Posted By : Tim - 5/23/2008 1:43 PM | I have question to the editors out there. If you (the editor) sent a personalized but rejected email, should the author respond ? I thought it was some sort of taboo but I want to thank him for the insight.
"Dinner at Faneuil Hall" June 2007 Writer's Post Journal
"Making Sand Castles" Oct 2007 Six Sentences website
"Unmoving" Issue #8 December 2007 Twisted Tongue Magazine in the U.K. |
| Posted By : SilviaMG - 5/23/2008 1:54 PM | "I have question to the editors out there. If you (the editor) sent a personalized but rejected email, should the author respond ? I thought it was some sort of taboo but I want to thank him for the insight."
Don't respond. They already have a lot of e-mail to deal with. When you sub again, include a little line that says "Thank you for your feedback on my last story, it was very helpful." Same thing if an editor said something like we hope to see more work from you. They usually mean it. So don't be afraid to mention that when you sub again. Something like "As per your last e-mail, I'm sending you some of my other stuff to look at."
The exception to the above rule would be if you manage to make a very good sale of the story. You might want to tell the editor who gave you helpful comments. Something like "Hi Bob. I just wanted to let you know your comments about my story "Such and So" were incredibly helpful. It will appear in Pro Market X next summer. Thanks." |
| Posted By : Rob Santa - 5/23/2008 2:24 PM | I feel like it is not necessary for a rejected author to respond to the letter. After all, you probably said something along the lines of "Thank you for the consideration" in your cover letter. I've received thank you notes and never once felt the writer was intruding on my busy schedule. It's a small matter to open an e-mail and read a thank you, though I feel obligated to respond with a you're welcome message. That's the only place where time intrudes, and it is inconsequential. A thank you note is polite but unnecessary.
Rob Santa
Hopelessly Addicted Writer of Speculative Fiction
and CEO of Ricasso Press |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 5/23/2008 3:29 PM | Polite, yes; unnecessary, only when it's not an editor you interact with on lots of other fronts or consider a friend of sorts  If it is one of those types editors, of course you let him/her know! Of course you also don't let the 'Thanks' dissolve into a running conversation.
Otherwise, SilviaMG has a good answer, too.
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz?
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| Posted By : crystalwizard - 5/23/2008 7:52 PM | Samurai Tim said...
I have question to the editors out there. If you (the editor) sent a personalized but rejected email, should the author respond ? I thought it was some sort of taboo but I want to thank him for the insight.
This is personal opinion only, so keep that in mind.
From the first submission email I get from someone, I try to put us both on the same footing and level. The author and I are a team, as far as I'm concerned, and I try to make sure I send the same sort of polite, personal emails to him or her that I would to someone I work with at my day job or someone I've known for a long time. So far, it's working pretty well and instead of faceless people at different desks we very rapidly establish a good working relationship.
That said, I would hope my authors would reply. and most of them do. I would also hope I wouldn't get flamed, and so far none of them have.
Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!
Managing Editor of Flashing Swords
Visit my art gallery on art wanted
All my books in print |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 5/23/2008 7:55 PM | SilviaMG said...
The exception to the above rule would be if you manage to make a very good sale of the story. You might want to tell the editor who gave you helpful comments. Something like "Hi Bob. I just wanted to let you know your comments about my story "Such and So" were incredibly helpful. It will appear in Pro Market X next summer. Thanks."
I'm going to disagree with that. That has serious overtones of gloating. As if the author were saying 'hah! Look what YOU missed out on! Hrumph! So much for you, the Big Boys want my story and you're small peanuts compared to them. Ptbtbtbtbtbtbt'
Even if that's not what's intended, it would be very easy for someone to take that the wrong way.
Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!
Managing Editor of Flashing Swords
Visit my art gallery on art wanted
All my books in print |
| Posted By : SilviaMG - 5/23/2008 9:45 PM | "Even if that's not what's intended, it would be very easy for someone to take that the wrong way."
I think it depends on the editor. Nick Mamatas appreciates it. I think Realms of Fantasy is also happy to hear from slushies (Douglas Cohen calls them his secret slush survivors) who made it somewhere else. If an editor gave me some very good feedback that helped me place that story in another good place I would send them a thank you note and let them know about it in a very polite and friendly way. The reason is good customer service. We complain about editors a lot but sometimes we forget to let them know what a good job they do. I think in an exceptional set of circumstances like a very nice sale and very good comments it would merit a thank you to that special editor who helped you polish your story.
Of course, it comes down to a personal decision. Silence is always the easiest course. |
| Posted By : darkbow - 5/23/2008 9:55 PM | For me it would come down to my working relationship with the editor. If it was an editor I don't know very well, then no, I wouldn't e-mail them to let them know I sold the story elsewhere, even if it was his or her's tips that helped make my story better.
On the other hand, if it were cw or Jason or a handful of other editors I feel I know fairly well, then there's a better chance I might slip them a note to thank them for the advice.
Heck, if it's Jason I might just do some gloating! :-p
"Beneath a Persian Sun" upcoming in Carnivah House's "Infinity Swords" anthology
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| Posted By : SilviaMG - 5/23/2008 9:59 PM | "Heck, if it's Jason I might just do some gloating! :-p"
Now, now no gloating. |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 5/23/2008 10:02 PM | darkbow said...
On the other hand, if it were cw or Jason or a handful of other editors I feel I know fairly well, then there's a better chance I might slip them a note to thank them for the advice.
Heck, if it's Jason I might just do some gloating! :-p
*grin* but that's assuming you succeeded in getting a rejection out of either of us instead of an acceptance. Seriously though, one of the things I try to do if I have to turn down a story is to suggest an alternate market or two that the author might try. So if someone emailed me and let me know they were able to place it elsewhere I'd be very happy. |
| Posted By : ScrewMoonshine - 5/25/2008 5:11 PM | I only reply to rejections if I want something clarified. And by clarified, I mean a question in the form of "Do you mean this or that?", not "What do you mean by this?" The latter question, for me at least, is usually nothing more than subconsciously challenging the editor's reasons for rejection, which is naturally a big no-no. Even if it's not intended that way, it could be interpreted that way. I've never regretted asking an editor for clarification on a point.
If I feel like informing an editor that one of my submissions has been placed elsewhere, I save it for the cover letter of the next submission I send him. That way there's no chance of it being interpreted as gloating. Naturally, I always thank the editor in my cover letters if he has given me helpful suggestions before, regardless of whether or not said suggestions helped in placing the story elsewhere.
Robert Orme
Out now:
"More Than One Way to Protect" in Lords of Justice (www.carnifexpress.net/)
"Time in a Capsule" in Unparalleled Journeys II (www.journeybookspublishing.com/)
"On the Tree Top" in Ultraverse vol.3 #5 (www.ultraverse.us)
"The Scab, the Man, and the I.V." in Mount Zion Speculative Fiction Review #3 (www.mountzionpress.com)
Coming soon:
"Replacing Someone" in Aoife's Kiss #26, September 2008 (http://samsdotpublishing.com/aoife/main.htm) |
| Posted By : Nicholas - 5/27/2008 4:21 AM | The most bizarre submission my co-editor and I ever got back when we were doing MOOREEFFOC Magazine--well, I'm not even sure you could call it a submission, exactly...More of a query with a demand for upfront money.
It was a list of poem titles, along with a cover letter explaining that if we wanted to see any of them, we had to send the author a deposit (it was pretty hefty, too, if I recall correctly, something like forty dollars--way beyond what we paid for poems). Not only did we scoff at the weirdness of the proposal, but we also derived much amusement from the list. The titles were all strangely generic: "The Haunted House," "The Ghost," etc.
I wonder if anyone, ever--just out of curiosity, maybe, and with money to burn--actually sent a deposit to this odd person for the opportunity to read one of those poems.
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| Posted By : Camille Alexa - 5/27/2008 10:57 PM |
Nicholas said...
[. . .]
I wonder if anyone, ever--just out of curiosity, maybe, and with money to burn--actually sent a deposit to this odd person for the opportunity to read one of those poems.
I wonder that about all spam.
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| Posted By : MysticWino - 5/27/2008 11:07 PM | The redeeming quality of such strange spam is that it provides us the validation that it's the world 'out there' that's all fogged up. Doesn't necessarily bolster our claim to sanity, but it certainly validates our own percipience of the general world as somewhat more askew . . .
I dream of the day I can afford to piss away $20 to buy a good poem, let alone twice that to glimpse a suspiciously abstract unknown.
Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
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| Posted By : Nicholas - 5/29/2008 1:24 AM | | I guess I should further clarify that this was submitted by Post: good old-fashioned snail mail (we didn't even accept email submissions back then. And--get this--when we published a story, we typed it out word-for-word from the original manuscript. Well, my co-editor did. No wonder he burned out in six issues).
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| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 5/29/2008 1:38 AM | Most excellent, dude! My 'favorite' submission of all time thus far spent in this profession is the only paper sub I received via snail mail when working for Staffs & Starships. Among the many quite obvious shortcomings of both the appropriateness and quality of the content, the many-paged submission's cover letter had this banner running from edge-to-edge beneath the author's signature and contact information, sans email address: "Save the forests~Save the forests~Save the forests" And this came when we were brand new and the only information about us was found on line and, there on our site, above the snail mail address, was the stressed 'email submissions preferred' - I'm only surprised that the banner didn't run across the footer of every page of the story.
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Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz?
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