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| Posted By : Nathan Jerpe - 3/13/2008 9:35 AM | | So suppose an author approaches someone with a work he intends to self-publish and says: "I need this edited"?
How does this work? Does the editor typically charge a flat rate? Per hour? Or maybe something on a per-word basis?
And let us further suppose that this totally hypothetical author that I have never met has a very modest budget for this project. Do editors work for royalties, or a percentage of revenue from sales?
Another idea would be if a second writer has a work they'd like to have edited, in which case a swap would do nicely.
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| Posted By : Hermit - 3/13/2008 10:49 AM | From what I've seen . . . self-published authors DEFINITELY need editors. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of good book editors you're likely to find working for someone else who isn't exclusive to their company. Book editing is very unlike line editing or article editing or NF editing. It takes a story-teller who can disociate at the same time as he engages in the narrative. Someone who can line-edit without robbing the prose of color and character. Someone capable of suggesting critical revisions as well as making certain the mechanics of each individual sentence, paragraph, and chapter is as clear as it needs to be.
Needless to say, it is a lot of painstaking work. So, don't sell yourself short. Charge what you're worth! If they can't come up with the cash, then they aren't determined enough to publish the book properly. Period. End of story.
That's my professional opinion. I don't always follow my own advice, though; that's why I give it away. Read me soon in The Return of the Sword! Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com |

| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/13/2008 12:18 PM | | This is a link to James Boone Dryden's website that contains his rates for editing. Boone is a professional editor who also edits the magazine Sheer Speculations.
I haven't had any personal experience with his editing services (not having a novel ready to go), but he's a friend and a hard worker. His website contains testimonials from his past clients.
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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| Posted By : Hermit - 3/13/2008 4:22 PM | Thanks, Jordan. Great breakdown he has there. I guess I'm a bit odd, but I tend to charge higher hourly rates for smaller works and taper as wordcount builds. But I don't publish my rates specifically because I don't have the available time on any kind of regular schedule. JB appears to be very professional. If I were looking for a book editor, I'd at least open a dialogue with him. But then, I edit my own work . . .
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| Posted By : Nathan Jerpe - 3/13/2008 5:31 PM | |
Yea...thanks for the link, very professional all around.
Of course, the rates would have more meaning if we knew how many words could be handled in an hour. (although I realize it may be difficult for an editor to predict this) Personally, I'm finding a pace of about 1,500 words/hour is the norm for my own stuff, maybe less for passages that are particularly tortuous.
What's your speed?
And how did you guys all get to be editors anyway? :)
http://roguelikefiction.com |

| Posted By : Hermit - 3/13/2008 5:45 PM | How did we get to be editors?
We're writers. Editing is part of the process.
Seriously, though, I started my own poetry journal about a decade ago. Then I went back to college for a BA and then an MA in English. During my graduate matriculation, I spent two years as a tutor in the writing center. I learned by doing. I was also brought up in a very dysfunctional way that led me to be overly critical, and so I decided to turn that evil character flaw into a power for good. Once I unlearned being critical, I learned to critique. Via numerous programs and books, I taught myself a great deal about communication and brought that into constructive criticism. And then I partnered in a publishing company, published three great books and went into Andromeda-level debt. Which led to freelancing and eventually to an editorship at a state agency.
I don't recommend my path, Grasshopper. There HAS to be an easier way.
Actually, the one work I suggest every editor read (over and over) is Alexander Pope's "Essay on Criticism". It's especially beneficial for fiction and poetry editors. Might be able to find it on Google books or Bartleby's. Read me soon in The Return of the Sword! Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com |

| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/13/2008 5:53 PM | Well, I started same as David.
Studied English at university, wrote and edited a whole bunch of my own stuff, then started a magazine. Now I read and edit about 50K words a month, and you wouldn't believe how much experience you get from editting a small novel every month.
Of course, I specialize in flash, not novels, so I'm definitely not the guy you want to contact. For this, Boone's your man. Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 3/13/2008 6:22 PM | Jordan's already recommended the same guy I would have. Boone is a good editor. It's how I met him, as he came out of college and edited for Armand at Carnifex Press. As you've visited his site you're aware of his rates.
Editors typically charge per hour or per page. For page rates, it's pretty safe to say an average price would be $1.00 per page. Manuscript page, that is.
I wouldn't recommend this hypothetical author simply swap editing novels with someone. Critiques, sure. Recommended. But he shouldn't just let anybody edit his tale. And does he himself believe he's capable of editing the other person's novel?
Good question. Boone's the only true editor I know who does this as a business. There are several editors I know who I could also recommend, but as David said, they're tied to houses or running their own presses/publications and can't take on new material. It's good to hear this hypothetical author realizes getting his novel edited by an unbiased outside paid source is a smart route to take.
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| Posted By : Hermit - 3/14/2008 1:38 PM | What the foggy hound is wrong with you, CW?!
Have you no pride? No sense of selfworth?
Or do you know something about the work in question we don't?
Here I thought you were business savvy as well as incredibly talented . . .
crystalwizard said...Send it to me Nathan, I'll do it for free.
Always be leary of anyone wanting to raise your babies for nothing. It flies in the face of human nature.
Also: I seriously advocate testing an editor with a single chapter before commiting to a full-book edit. This has nothing to with trust or paranoia. It is simply a pragmatic way to deal with the fact that each of us has a particular vision, and the editor and writer need to date before they get married - to see if their visions are complementary or symmetrically contrasting enough to make them compatible with each other. Savvy?
Read me soon in The Return of the Sword! Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com |

| Posted By : crystalwizard - 3/14/2008 8:08 PM | MysticWino said...What the foggy hound is wrong with you, CW?! VIEW IMAGE Have you no pride? No sense of selfworth? Or do you know something about the work in question we don't? Here I thought you were business savvy as well as incredibly talented . . . VIEW IMAGE
Foggy hound... interesting explicative.
bribe me with chocolate, works every time. ;) |

| Posted By : Nathan Jerpe - 3/17/2008 8:15 AM | Weeelll...I think a free first taste is a sound policy, for both the editor and the author. If you aren't going to like what you are going to get, its better to have tested the waters first, saves a lot of time for both parties. http://roguelikefiction.com |

| Posted By : Hermit - 3/17/2008 10:13 AM |
crystalwizard said...
Foggy hound... interesting explicative. Thanks. Another hobby of mine: colorful language that can sneak into a PG13 production. They're all catalogued in the fictitious Skinner anthology, "A Thousand and Thirteen-odd Curses". I'm working to rebuild that manuscript and a number of other lost Skinner manuscripts. My current favorite Skinnerian curse is "fumbleglut!".bribe me with chocolate, works every time. ;) Read me soon in The Return of the Sword! Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com |

| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/17/2008 10:53 AM |
Nathan Jerpe said...
Weeelll...I think a free first taste is a sound policy, for both the editor. For the author, maybe, but not for the editor. Imagine the number of clients an editor has to see. If they did a free chapter or two for every potential, a significant portion of their day might be spent doing free work.... and no one likes working for free.
Editors post testimonials, and sometimes post examples of their work. That's how you know if you're a good fit.
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/19/2008 8:36 PM | Imagine, CW, that editing manuscripts is your full time job:
You have four clients, each with a novel length text, and you have a "slush" of, say, 100 single chapters sent to you by aspiring clients (a conservative number considering the number of query literary agents get). How are you going to find the time to do all that and still see your family? Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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| Posted By : H.P. Lovesauce - 3/20/2008 10:34 AM | Then there are layout and design questions. I think these are separate, or assume they are, because the PDF of the first Staffs & Starships had some noticeable errors. (Is that the "typecoding" Boone mentions on his site?
Self-publishing requires gaining some expertise in a number of areas. This is what makes an "in-between" publisher like Trytium valuable. |

| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/20/2008 1:51 PM | Boone did have trouble with his printer if I recall. Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 3/20/2008 7:29 PM | Yes, the first issue of S&S went through some printing difficulties and the final product was not exactly what we'd meant it to be.
That's layout though, not necessarily the editor's job. Large publishers have separate people, even divisions, handle that; small press, it's probably the same guy. In the case of TROTS, I did handle all that. Of course, I had a helluva steep learning curve and did experience some setbacks along the way, but in the end I'm quite happy with the final product.
Layout is not really what an author would be paying a private editor for, though. Layout will end up being done by and within the parameters of whatever publisher the author lands with.
~~~~~~~~~~ Jason M. Waltz Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/20/2008 7:35 PM | um. Trots? You've got the trots? :D
I really prefer RotS Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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| Posted By : crystalwizard - 3/20/2008 8:13 PM | Jordan Lapp said... Imagine, CW, that editing manuscripts is your full time job:
You think it isn't? I'm putting in about 50 hours a week editing not only FS but allso various books for Cyberwizard's. What do you consider a full time job?
Jordan Lapp said...
You have four clients, each with a novel length text, and you have a "slush" of, say, 100 single chapters sent to you by aspiring clients (a conservative number considering the number of query literary agents get). How are you going to find the time to do all that and still see your family?
I currently have paid contracts for a 100K word how-to book and 3 novels with contracts for several other books sitting on my desk.
I have over 100K of stuff to edit for the summer issue due out on June 1 alone, plus the may issue of FS. I had to close to submissions, remember? Did you forget I do have a slush pile? Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!
Managing Editor of Flashing Swords
Visit my art gallery on art wanted All my books in print |

| Posted By : crystalwizard - 3/20/2008 8:18 PM | von Darkmoor said...
Layout is not really what an author would be paying a private editor for, though..
Exactly. Layout and typesetting are not editing. And not what an author has much say on even. |

| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/20/2008 8:21 PM | Apologies, I had no idea you were so busy. I only said it wasn't your full time job because I know you're a computer person as well.
To me, it just seems wrong to neglect your current clients in favour of non-paying "freebie" first chapters. But then, I'm not a professional editor, and understand that others might have different philosophies. Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 3/20/2008 8:28 PM |
Jordan Lapp said...um. Trots? You've got the trots? :D I really prefer RotS
A funny guy, eh?
To be honest, I've preferred TROTS from the beginning - and should have used it always. Especially after someone pointed out to me something I seriously never noticed till they did so (2 weeks ago): RotS = rots.
I don't like that association much at all.
~~~~~~~~~~ Jason M. Waltz Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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| Posted By : crystalwizard - 3/20/2008 11:00 PM | von Darkmoor said...To be honest, I've preferred TROTS from the beginning - and should have used it always. Especially after someone pointed out to me something I seriously never noticed till they did so (2 weeks ago): RotS = rots. I don't like that association much at all. VIEW IMAGE VIEW IMAGE
Too late now. Sorry, Jason. My fault for starting that acronym. But everyone's using it and I don't think you'll be able to issue a recall. If it's any consolation, Steve Jackson didn't want to call GURPS by that name, either. But that's what Norman started calling it... Great Unnamed Rolplaying System. And by the time Steve realized what was going on, everyone was calling it GURPS. All he could do was try to come up with something cool for GURPS to mean and try to advertise it that way. |

| Posted By : Nathan Jerpe - 3/20/2008 11:33 PM |
Jordan Lapp said... Imagine, CW, that editing manuscripts is your full time job:
You have four clients, each with a novel length text, and you have a "slush" of, say, 100 single chapters sent to you by aspiring clients (a conservative number considering the number of query literary agents get). How are you going to find the time to do all that and still see your family? You raise a surprisingly lucid point, Jordan, considering the size of that beer in your picture.
Suppose, OTOH, you do get a paying customer, and after some initial work it is obvious the two of you don't click? Do you finish the job and cash the check, and risk his discontent? Or do you stop, cut your losses, and move on to the next potential?
Keeping in mind a chapter could be overly generous; a page or two (or a poorly worded SFReader post?) might be enough to determine a match.
Also, there probably needs to be a distinction made between something you are assigned to edit as an editor, and something you are editing because you intend to publish it.
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| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 3/21/2008 1:00 PM | If it's any consolation, I never noticed the rots acronym. I probably wouldn't have seen the trots either, except it was all capitalized.
I think the capitalization makes a difference. Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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| Posted By : H.P. Lovesauce - 3/21/2008 2:17 PM |
crystalwizard said...
von Darkmoor said...To be honest, I've preferred TROTS from the beginning - and should have used it always. Especially after someone pointed out to me something I seriously never noticed till they did so (2 weeks ago): RotS = rots. I don't like that association much at all. VIEW IMAGE VIEW IMAGE Too late now. Sorry, Jason. My fault for starting that acronym. But everyone's using it and I don't think you'll be able to issue a recall. If it's any consolation, Steve Jackson didn't want to call GURPS by that name, either. But that's what Norman started calling it... Great Unnamed Rolplaying System. And by the time Steve realized what was going on, everyone was calling it GURPS. All he could do was try to come up with something cool for GURPS to mean and try to advertise it that way. And really, WOFTRTM (Warmed-Over Fantasy Trip Rushed To Market) wouldn't have tripped off the tongue. |

| Posted By : crystalwizard - 3/21/2008 9:57 PM | H.P. Lovesauce said... And really, WOFTRTM (Warmed-Over Fantasy Trip Rushed To Market) wouldn't have tripped off the tongue.
And neither would MTMOA =Man to Man once again |
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