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| Posted By : Hermit - 8/24/2007 12:35 PM | | Why do we do this?
It's tough as hell being a writer in this crazy industry. Why add another layer of purgatorio by undertaking the more expensive than rewarding pathology of editing for the small press?
As a profession, and for a real salary, I understand. It's a great job. But those of us who do the small press thing: WHY?
Incredibly prolific penster |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 8/24/2007 12:41 PM | It's addicting?
Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!
Managing Editor of Flashing Swords
http://flashingswords.sfreader.com
Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard
All my books in print:
http://sojourn.omnitech.net |
| Posted By : Hermit - 8/24/2007 1:55 PM | That explains the wierd mood and shaking this morning. 
Incredibly prolific penster |
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 8/24/2007 2:57 PM | | Because we like books, not just stories. |
| Posted By : Firlefanz - 8/24/2007 3:43 PM | Because, for me, for a while, it seemed that it was the only way I could get myself published. Ahem.
That has changed now, but I still want to get that anthology I'm editing out there.
- Call me Firle.
Hannah Steenbock
Mystical Adventures
Beyond Horizons
Sphaira |
| Posted By : Hermit - 8/24/2007 4:11 PM | I started from self publishing.
But then I realized just how much wonderful reading there is out there that no one is seeing because so many have a hard time with the process. Like me. I really like giving publishing creds to new authors who deserve it based on their writing. It's also a kick helping others improve their writing.
Incredibly prolific penster |
| Posted By : Rob Santa - 8/25/2007 12:33 AM | Ditto.
Rob Santa
Hopelessly Addicted Writer of Speculative Fiction
and CEO of Ricasso Press |
| Posted By : Firlefanz - 8/25/2007 5:33 AM | I have a friend who is a brilliant writer. He keeps winning the flash challenge on my board, with his special brand of humour.
Unfortunately, he believes he's bad and not worthy of notice, and continuously talks about giving up writing. He only submitted a story once for an anthology project, after much pressure was applied. He got high praise for it, but the project itself failed, and he never submitted the story elsewhere.
I so wish I could give him that final push so he can get published.
- Call me Firle.
Hannah Steenbock
Mystical Adventures
Beyond Horizons
Sphaira |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 8/25/2007 11:47 AM | Firlefanz said...
I have a friend who is a brilliant writer. He keeps winning the flash challenge on my board, with his special brand of humour.
<snip>
I so wish I could give him that final push so he can get published.
Perhaps you could put out an anthology of winning flash pieces from your board? |
| Posted By : Firlefanz - 8/25/2007 2:55 PM | Hmm. That's an idea.
Of course, I'm a veteran of two anthologies that folded eventually - organized by the owner of another writer's board. She never managed to find a publisher to print it. That was before I got to know you all.
- Call me Firle.
Hannah Steenbock
Mystical Adventures
Beyond Horizons
Sphaira |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 8/25/2007 3:52 PM | Firlefanz said...Hmm. That's an idea. Of course, I'm a veteran of two anthologies that folded eventually - organized by the owner of another writer's board. She never managed to find a publisher to print it. That was before I got to know you all.
lulu.com, cafepress.com, alibris.com... |
| Posted By : Hermit - 8/25/2007 6:23 PM | I can produce them better and for less money. Just don't do the marketing part.
crystalwizard said...
Firlefanz said...
Hmm. That's an idea.
Of course, I'm a veteran of two anthologies that folded eventually - organized by the owner of another writer's board. She never managed to find a publisher to print it. That was before I got to know you all.
:wink: lulu.com, cafepress.com, alibris.com...
Incredibly prolific penster |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 8/26/2007 2:29 PM | David BH Pitchford said...
Just don't do the marketing part.
Speaking of that, anyone have suggestions for good marketing avenues/methods? |
| Posted By : Firlefanz - 8/26/2007 5:00 PM | crystalwizard said...
lulu.com, cafepress.com, alibris.com...
Well, most participants didn't want to go that way. And by now, the anthologies are disbanded and the stories have reverted to the authors. In fact, I'm no longer visiting that board. *shrugs*
Good marketing ... hard to say. The anthology with my first story in it is being marketed through forums, websites, readings, relatives, reviews and press releases - both by the publisher and the eleven individual authors in it. We don't really have any new and brilliant idea, to be honest, just doing what everyone is able to. I hope that the combined effort will have some effect.
- Call me Firle.
Hannah Steenbock
Mystical Adventures
Beyond Horizons
Sphaira |
| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 8/26/2007 7:20 PM |
Firle said...
I have a friend who is a brilliant writer. He keeps winning the flash challenge on my board, with his special brand of humour. Tell him to send a story to EDF. We're on the lookout for this kind of stuff.
David BH Pitchford said...
I started from self publishing. I'm against editors publishing pieces in their own mags for a variety of reasons, the most obvious of which is the lack of editorial discretion. Our responsibility is to our readers to give them the best stuff, and since we are incapable of being objective about our own writing it's better to just focus on publishing in other venues. Avoids the "appearance of impropreity".
David BH Pitchford said...
Why do we do this? For me, there's a variety of reasons.
1) I noticed that the kind of fiction I wanted to read wasn't available, so I decided to publish it.
2) I hoped it would increase my "name recognition" and give my writing an extra boost.
3) I forsee the possibility of at least covering my costs and maybe making a profit.
Jordan Lapp Managing Editor
|
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 8/26/2007 8:09 PM | Jordan Lapp said...
I'm against editors publishing pieces in their own mags for a variety of reasons, the most obvious of which is the lack of editorial discretion. Our responsibility is to our readers to give them the best stuff, and since we are incapable of being objective about our own writing it's better to just focus on publishing in other venues. Avoids the "appearance of impropreity".
Yet you feel that the same editors are capable of being objective about other people's stuff?
I can't agree with you. If the editor of a mag has the smarts to be able to look at someone else's stuff and decide if his/her readers would enjoy reading it, that editor also has the ability to be objective about his or her own stuff as far as publishing it in his own magazine.
If he can't, he's not likely to do too good a job of selecting stories his readers actually want to read regardless of who wrote them. |
| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 8/26/2007 8:39 PM |
crystalwizard said...
I can't agree with you. If the editor of a mag has the smarts to be able to look at someone else's stuff and decide if his/her readers would enjoy reading it, that editor also has the ability to be objective about his or her own stuff as far as publishing it in his own magazine.
What I've said doesn't apply to Flashing Swords. As I've said before, you guys have so many great S&S writers as editors, the magazine would suffer without their work.
But in general I stand by what I said. Many editors who are publishing their own stuff also have poor publishing records.
Even if complete objectivity can be acheived, the appearance to the READER is that there is favoritism, perhaps because numerous examples of other editors publishing their own (poor) material in magazines. This appearance of impropriety should be avoided.
There are certainly enough markets around that a talented writer/editor should be able to get their stuff published. And if an editor is NOT getting published in competing publications, maybe it's time to examine why this is so instead of resorting to self-publishing.
Jordan Lapp Managing Editor
|
| Posted By : darkbow - 8/26/2007 8:58 PM | I say this as a writer: If I were an editor, I would not publish my own fiction. It would be, if nothing else, a matter of pride for me. But that's just me.
As for other editor's publishing their own stuff, I'll admit I'm a bit put off by it. I don't trust it. Doesn't mean I would never read their publication, but they'd have to impress me all the more with what else their publication has to offer.
www.tyjohnston.blogspot.com
"Hot Off the Press" now available in Ray Gun Revival #25. |
| Posted By : Firlefanz - 8/27/2007 2:54 AM | In the anthology I edit, there are two stories by members of the orga crew (which are three people). The decision to include those stories depended solely on those two who did not write the story. They both had to vote "yes", or the story wouldn't have been included.
I believe that's a fair way of handling this. I wouldn't include a story of my own if I were the only one to decide. That would feel like taking advantage of a position.
- Call me Firle.
Hannah Steenbock
Mystical Adventures
Beyond Horizons
Sphaira |
| Posted By : Hermit - 8/27/2007 10:58 AM |
Jordan Lapp said...
I'm against editors publishing pieces in their own mags for a variety of reasons, the most obvious of which is the lack of editorial discretion. 'em er my toes yer steppin' on there, pard. Yer 'bout half a word away from me slappin' leather 'n unleashin' this here smokewagon in a peal o thunder! Cuz it sho as jellybeans looks like yer callin' me a bad editor as much as ye're accusin me of indiscretion. Don' likely cotton to such from a wet-behind-the-ears Yankee carpetbagger.   Our responsibility is to our readers to give them the best stuff, and since we are incapable of being objective about our own writing it's better to just focus on publishing in other venues. If'n yer doin justice to yer own publication, when the fiery conflagration you gonna find time to shoot out submissions? Pony Express don' run that late in the day.
Avoids the "appearance of impropreity". What's inapropriate about it? Who's paying for it? Readers? Good luck! Advertisers? Or bitter SF writers who resent the fact that the editor passed over their work in favor of his own - and are always looking for reasons NOT to buy your publication? What was the basis for the decision to include said editor's work? "Because it's my publication," is a pretty weak reason. But what about "it's the best and least complicated work I can include because I'm out of word money."? In my book, any editor who is also a writer is a chickensh_t not to include his own work - and a piss poor businessman. If it's too weak to be there, then said editor is either a very poor editor or decieving himself that he is a writer. If he's not writing publishable material - and that is for his readers to decide more than anyone esle - then he is an editor with aspirations to be a writer and not a writer/editor.
But it comes down to this: how was the acquisition decision made? If the content did not undergo the same treatment as any other submission, then there is a problem. If, however, it went through the same process of elimination/inclusion as did the other work in the given publication, then I don't see a problem. BUT, said editor better keep in mind that his/her readership are going to be at least twice as likely to attack in relation to that particular work and its quality.
One note here to clarify: I'm talking about ongoing periodicals and specifically NOT anthologies. That is a completely different discussion.
David BH Pitchford said...
Why do we do this? For me, there's a variety of reasons.
1) I noticed that the kind of fiction I wanted to read wasn't available, so I decided to publish it.
2) I hoped it would increase my "name recognition" and give my writing an extra boost.
3) I forsee the possibility of at least covering my costs and maybe making a profit.
Incredibly prolific penster |
| Posted By : Hermit - 8/28/2007 7:32 PM | Well. After all that, I'm just about ready to say FuKK it and kill my zine. What's a decade in the grand scheme anyway?
But I'm too damned stubborn . . . 
Incredibly prolific penster |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 8/29/2007 1:53 PM | David BH Pitchford said...
Well. After all that, I'm just about ready to say FuKK it and kill my zine. What's a decade in the grand scheme anyway?
Please don't do that, Dave. Jordan was only expressing his personal opinion. I doubt he was taking pot-shots at you, or at least I hope he wasn't.
Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!
Managing Editor of Flashing Swords
http://flashingswords.sfreader.com
Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard
All my books in print:
http://sojourn.omnitech.net |
| Posted By : Hermit - 8/29/2007 2:20 PM | |
Okay. First, Jordan, I did take it personally - and I realize that's about me and not about you. If I did offend you with my reply - which I attempted to make absurd for comedic value in the consciousness that I was being a whiner - I apologize. It's a very sensitive subject for me, but that really has very little to do with me taking it badly. I just get these really squirrely episodes after I finish a major project, a major depression if you want to toss a bit of Freud at it. Part of the affliction comes with a very empty and needy ego at the end of the road. And with a needy ego comes the whole questioning of self-worth, usually replete with self-accusations of worthlessness and the despair of having pushed my life aside for the sake of a novel nobody will ever care to read despite the fact that during the writing I knew it absolutely to be the work of genius and the next HP.
Second, I'm seriously conflicted over the whole publishing gig. I want PQ to continue, but I prefer to continue writing 60K words a month toward my epic fantasy series - both of them.
I'm better now. Thanks.
Oh. And Jason (um, and Jordan, too - everyone for that matter), I fully support you in your expression of your opinion. Please understand that I'm just expressing one in return. Breaking my own rules to take it personal - damn this humanity! 
crystalwizard said...
David BH Pitchford said...
Well. After all that, I'm just about ready to say FuKK it and kill my zine. What's a decade in the grand scheme anyway? Please don't do that, Dave. Jordan was only expressing his personal opinion. I doubt he was taking pot-shots at you, or at least I hope he wasn't.
Incredibly prolific penster |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 9/3/2007 10:05 AM |
David BH Pitchford said...
Oh. And Jason (um, and Jordan, too - everyone for that matter), I fully support you in your expression of your opinion. Please understand that I'm just expressing one in return. Breaking my own rules to take it personal - damn this humanity!  I understand you completely, David, no explanation necessary. Funny thing is, I also understand Jordan completely, no further explanation required. A conundrum of the business.
I picked up editing for several reasons. First, I've heard numbers of you say it's good for the writing soul to be an editor, at least once, at least for a little while. I agree with you. Second, the challenge of seeing if I can pick 'em as good as so-and-so. I'm quite happy to say, at least this first time, I seem to have met this challenge. Third, name recognition, or the hope thereof. Seems reasonable. Fourth, I've long been entrenched in the world of helping other writers reach their goals and this seemed like taking one more step in that direction. Right now I'm at the point where I can honestly say I'm unsure which would be the most thrilling to me: being a best-selling author or being the one who delivered a best-selling author to the public. I guess the first is still most desirable, but the second is much closer than I'd have ever thought.
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Associate Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 9/3/2007 10:46 AM |
David BH Pitchford said...I can produce them better and for less money. Just don't do the marketing part.
lulu.com, cafepress.com, alibris.com...
David - talk to me. How about producing a WWII journal, currently at 16 pages of 8 11x14 sheets folded in half and stapled? I'm looking at going to a trade size 6x9 or so, which I've roughly converted to 22-24 pages. I doubt we'd hit 30, but perhaps.
Rough estimate? Do you have any mailing of same product advice? PM me or, better yet, GMail me at jasonmwaltz gmail com
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Associate Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 9/3/2007 1:53 PM | David BH Pitchford said...
It's a very sensitive subject for me, but that really has very little to do with me taking it badly. I just get these really squirrely episodes after I finish a major project, a major depression if you want to toss a bit of Freud at it. Part of the affliction comes with a very empty and needy ego at the end of the road. And with a needy ego comes the whole questioning of self-worth, usually replete with self-accusations of worthlessness and the despair of having pushed my life aside for the sake of a novel nobody will ever care to read despite the fact that during the writing I knew it absolutely to be the work of genius and the next HP.
That just sounds like your brain reacting to exhaustion after burning up all sorts of chemicals in the creative drive and probably a blood-sugar imbalance. I recommend a hot meal, a warm bath, a long walk under starry skies and a few rounds of watching funny movies to recharge. |
| Posted By : Jordan Lapp - 9/3/2007 2:13 PM |
David BH Pitchford said...
Okay. First, Jordan, I did take it personally -
Wow, I so didn't mean it personally. I didn't even know that you self-publish in PQ.
I stand by my beliefs and that's why you'll never see my name (outside of an editorial) in EDF. That said, I certainly don't scorn others who do. It's your magazine, and ultimately you are the final authority on what your readers want. Maybe you have a readership that looks forward to your writing, and the magazine would be hurt if you stopped. I'm not sure.
All I know is that I won't self-published, and if I see a magazine that does, I think less of it. But I'm just one reader.
Jordan Lapp Managing Editor
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