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| Posted By : RHFay - 5/7/2008 4:08 AM | | Here's one more theraputic piece:
electronic zing -
literary cattle zapped
in a virtual field
It seems that some people out there in cyberspace are of the opinion that the only honest criticism is harsh criticism. Apparently, some people feel that the only way to truly grow as a writer is to be jabbed repeatedly with a (figurative) cattle-prod.
Show more, tell less...zzzap...build up those flimsy characters...zzzap...fill in those gaping plot holes...zzzap...follow this form or else...zzzap.
I think that's ridiculous, and rather counter-productive. Yes, honesty is always a good policy, but do you have to be obnoxious and cruel about it?
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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| Posted By : Hermit - 5/7/2008 11:37 AM | Well, I really like the verse.
And I agree with the sentiments that accompany it.
I'm just wondering if maybe this might fit in the "Gripe" forum?
I tend to be brutal to new artists who seem to think themselves born to great poetry. Mostly I do it to show how brutal criticism can be. I try to refrain, though, in public fora. Humiliating someone in a private workshop situation is one thing, public humiliation is . . . really little. It's one thing to slip out a devestating insult in a land-bound workshop, quite another to take the time to clack it out and lack the restraint to show a bit of empathy. In electronic criticism, I'm usually tough but honest. And being a father taught me the value of covering both ends: what was good and right should be pointed out as much as what could use serious work/revision.
Though, to be honest, I tend to be quite aggressive to those who are insulting or play the know-it-all.
I realize that I tend toward acting that way, but I seriously don't recall being unsportsmanlike about it . . .
I invite feedback - on feedback as well as other work. We're only culpable for being jerks if we understand that we're being that way - or because we rationalize it away when people try to tell us so . . .
Read me soon in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com |
| Posted By : RHFay - 5/7/2008 11:58 AM |
MysticWino said...
I'm just wondering if maybe this might fit in the "Gripe" forum?
Perhaps, but I think poetry, or art in general, should be able to stir up controversy every now and then, as long as there is a meaningfull message behind it. If this piece and my other "theraputic" piece make people aware of certain toxic behaviours and attitudes, and if they might make people think about changing their own toxic attitudes, then I think they served a meaningful purpose.
Certainly "electronic zing" is all about attitudes, and how those attitudes can hurt others. It's akin to mental and emotional torture, and that was the idea I had in my head when writing this one.
We're writers, we should be able to hand out criticism and feedback in a dignified, tactful way. There's really no excuse for abuse. And leave the alpha-dog snapping and swaggering in the gym.
That's what I'm trying to say. And I think it's potentially more helpful than hurtful for aspiring writers to think about such things.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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| Posted By : Hermit - 5/7/2008 1:08 PM | Oh, yeah. I totally get that. Just meant that it might also be a good topic to air out in the Gripe forum as well.
I only pull the 'alpha dog' thing if I'm around a newb trying to play big dog. And then it's usually a matter of abuse by wit. But, again, this is something that is rarely appropriate - and ONLY in person. There's too much we're ignorant of when it comes to electronic fora. I don't think I ever swagger when it comes to criticism. I'll admit to doing it quite a lot when performing poetry, but that's part of the show.
BTW, don't know if I ever mentioned it, but I always get a kick out of your tagline. Love it.
Read me soon in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com |
| Posted By : RHFay - 5/7/2008 1:17 PM |
MysticWino said...BTW, don't know if I ever mentioned it, but I always get a kick out of your tagline. Love it.
You mean the quote from my shelved novel, the one about reciting poetry? That's what my main charatcer says when he is going to confront a goblin army. I was definitely inspired by history with that one. It's a deliberate nod to the story of the minstrel Taillefer juggling his sword and singing the Song of Roland before attacking the English ranks at the battle of Hastings.
Somehow the quote just seems right for me.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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| Posted By : RHFay - 5/7/2008 1:21 PM |
MysticWino said...
I don't think I ever swagger when it comes to criticism. I'll admit to doing it quite a lot when performing poetry, but that's part of the show.
Well, swaggering when performing is called acting.
I really must start getting into poetry readings. I've been bad about that. There may be a couple of opportunities locally, and I should try to take advantage of these opportunities.
I hear that poetry readings can be an important part of the whole process, but I haven't really attended any readings yet.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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| Posted By : Nicholas - 5/7/2008 1:52 PM | Over a decade ago, when I was a young man living in Phoenix, I competed in a few poetry slams. Here's one I'll never forget: there was this weekly slam at a coffeehouse that I attended for the first time. A young man was sort of the reigning champion for a few weeks running. He was a "goth-rebel" whose poems consisted of dropping lots of "f***" this and "f***" that, often directed at girls who had emotionally wounded him. The whole swaggering act struck me as a stereotypical, uncreative display that got high scores based solely on his ability to project angry passion. So, when I went up following him, I dropped the poem I was going to read and "composed" one on the spot that was a parody of his, delivering it in the same fashion. I de-throned him that night. 
http://ozment.livejournal.com
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| Posted By : Nicholas - 5/7/2008 1:54 PM | Richard, I enjoyed your haiku--though I must admit, I would have had no idea what it was about without the context. Is the literary cattle metaphor a common one on the critique boards; i.e. would people "in the know" immediately get what you were aiming at?
http://ozment.livejournal.com
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| Posted By : Hermit - 5/7/2008 3:27 PM | I've written a few tirades. I usually bend or remove the bulk of the curse words so that the ones that remain are stark enough to retain emphasis. Just a couple weeks ago I posted an incredibly vitriolic poem called "Medusa, My Mother" on my blog. Got a bit of attention. I deleted it from the blog though, as I really don't want to be known for that. The best part was actually the Rubens painting I posted with it.
I hate slam. I'd sooner go to a rap concert . . . Though there's too often no discernable difference. I guess rage is too commonplace for me to appreciate it. I want to hear about how people SOLVE their problems, not listen to them wallow in them and deflect the blame on everyone but themselves. Best performance poem I recall offhand is a piece about smoking cessation by a Chicago poet named Cyn something. Lovely girl, too. Mark Smith did Sandberg's "Right to Grief" the one time I went to the Green Mill. That was powerful! Though I can't stand to listen to Sandberg read his own work. There are a lot of really great poetry recordings out there. That one Poetry Speaks, introduced by Osgood is my favorite. It's a toss up as to my favorite. Either Plath reading "Daddy" or Tolson's "Ex-Judge at the Bar". Robert Frost is entertaining. Dylan Thomas drives me nuts - sounds like Bela LaGossi reading. And Cummings reads too slow by far. Gwendollyn Brooks did a great job of reading poetry; I saw her the year before she died, and she was still a fiery, well-spoken little firecracker of a woman. Heard Billy Collins in Aurora back in 05 or so; he's very entertaining as well.
Overall, open-mics are great until you're far and away the best at the event. Then it's kind of like playing Trivial Pursuit with ten-year-olds. It is, however, the greatest practice I know for public speaking. You're off the hook after five minutes . . .
Nicholas said...Over a decade ago, when I was a young man living in Phoenix, I competed in a few poetry slams. Here's one I'll never forget: there was this weekly slam at a coffeehouse that I attended for the first time. A young man was sort of the reigning champion for a few weeks running. He was a "goth-rebel" whose poems consisted of dropping lots of "f***" this and "f***" that, often directed at girls who had emotionally wounded him. The whole swaggering act struck me as a stereotypical, uncreative display that got high scores based solely on his ability to project angry passion. So, when I went up following him, I dropped the poem I was going to read and "composed" one on the spot that was a parody of his, delivering it in the same fashion. I de-throned him that night.
Read me soon in The Return of the Sword! Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com |
| Posted By : RHFay - 5/7/2008 7:20 PM |
Nicholas said...Richard, I enjoyed your haiku--though I must admit, I would have had no idea what it was about without the context. Is the literary cattle metaphor a common one on the critique boards; i.e. would people "in the know" immediately get what you were aiming at?
My cattle metaphor was one I came up with after I thought of this situation as being something torturous. Cattle-prods came to mind, and the image took off from there.
I admit this one wouldn't really work without the background. There is a prose-haiku combination (what's it called?) that might actually make this piece work as a publishable piece. As it is, it's really just something personal.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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