-  We all have to learn from our own experiences.    However, I believe that 2,000 years of evidence from China points to it working, as do numerous modern studies by sceptical MDs. 

Has anyone mentioned the possible connection between internal energies/auras and Kirlian photography yet?  Skeptics denounce the possiblity of Kirlian photography having anything to do with auras or internal energies.  They claim that Kirlian photographs that show supposed "phantom images" of a cut leaf are nothing more than fraud, or are due to moisture residues.

The whole argument thing is a matter of presentation. I think the problem comes in when any of us (yep, I'm guilty as anyone) presents a point of view as "THE ANSWER" instead of saying 'here is an answer'.

As far as my objection to this particular study - I just don't see enough real information to suggest any kind of conclusion about placebo effect. How many of the drugged, mutilated, and bulldogged (physical therapy) folks got placebo effects? How do you know?

I have a friend that gets out about twice a year. His spine is fused. He refused chiropractic and accupuncture because the medical authorities told him it was voodoo. His quality of life is about that of a Derby horse with two broken legs [his analogy, as he is a huge fan of T-bred racing]. I know a few others who have seriously diminished capacity because they went with Western mutilation . . . I mean medicine. And, ironically enough, I have a friend with RA who practices Reiki, does massage, and has had numerous surguries to remove painful bones, etc. [my personal theory here is that Dianne is an untrained empath who has no skill at either grounding or establishing boundaries, which sets her up to absorb incredible amounts of negative/destructive energy - to such a degree that I can feel and sometimes even see it in her aura].

Chiropractic keeps me out from under the scalpel. Meditation keeps me mostly free of inhaled steroids, though not when I'm as bent by circumstances as I have been in the last week. I have personally used reflexology to great effect, most recently on my own wife when she had her doctor mutilate her. I eased her pain when Vicoden wouldn't touch it.

I have only refrained from accupuncture therapy because my expletive insurance company refuses to pay for it. Which is financially irresponsible of them, as it would result in an overall savings of something approaching $134,000 over the next three years if I end up having a disc removed or replaced or fused. Of course, I'll sooner cease my own life in this manifestation.

Also, my wife and I are both that sort of people unable to wear wrist watches because the batteries drain within hours.

Here is another interesting article:

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2002/mar/03lowbackpain.html

It gives a lot more detail. The frustration I have with the article Jordan was kind enough to link us to is that to read the full article you have to subscribe . . . and the summary really doesn't tell enough - and without the article to prove out the summary, it's risky at best to assume a high degree of accuracy in the summary itself.

And, yes, I'm willing to admit that the article to which I'm linking is an article produced by advocates of the procedure. However, I allow them as a reliable source for a number of reasons, the first being that they are a professional organization.

Tony: with all due respect, your refutation of my point about skill is off the mark. Yes, the study suggests that placement seemed nonsignificant. But this raises a great many questions about where the placebo needles were placed, how inserted, etc. Furthermore, I am fairly confident that the persons inflicting both the placebo and actual acupuncture needles were highly trained in the use of such needles. Much of the knowledge necessary for competent practice of acupuncture has to do with memorization of, or at least a working familiarity with, meridians and specific target points - of which there are at least a couple hundred. Not only must one know these, one should also know the optimal time for manipulation and treatment.

Thanks, Rob, for pointing out the next point I wanted to bring up: the limit of the research cited (by both Jordan and myself). Most of the placebo/acupuncture research I could find on a quick google [the best of which was unavailable to those not subscribed to numerous medical journals and/or Elsevier, etc.] dealt with treatment of chronic pain only - some of the neck, some of the back. But acupuncture is used to treat far, far more than just chronic pain.

"...Charles Bonnet Syndrome, a little-known but far from rare condition which causes victims to hallucinate and 'see', among other things, people in old-fashioned dress..."

Taking the study at face value, it shows that sticking pins into people actually works, so I don't see that the placebo effect is an issue here. But a double-blind experiment with 1,100 people is a pretty powerful test, and it concluded that it doesn't matter where the pins go. To convince me otherwise, you'd have to present even stronger experimental evidence to the contrary.

On the wider issue, there is no doubt that the human mind has the ability to override the normal responses of the body. This is evidenced by such matters as hypnotism and the placebo effect (I read recently that independent tests of some commonly-prescribed medicines showed that a placebo was just as effective). If people really believe that they're going to be cured, they may well be.

However, I recall a separate study which tested the attitudes of people who knew that they had illnesses likely to prove fatal. It was found that people who were determined not to accept this and battled to fight it died off at just the same rate as those who were resigned to their fate. So there are limits.

Tony Williams
Scales (2007), The Foresight War (2004)
Homepage: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk