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| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 2/18/2007 11:56 PM | This is the forum thread for discussing any of the books we see being read on the lists in the '2007 Reading List for Members' thread. Hey Dave!! Yoo-hoo! Can we make this a sticky-thingy too?
Basically, I just wanted to toss a few comments out:
WD - what did you think of Lamb's Genghis Khan: Emperor of All Men? I have that one and remember enjoying it several years ago. I really like Lamb's biographies but they sure are hard to come by. I believe I have 2 hardcovers and 2 paperbacks, but for some reason I think I have 5 total.
DragonAngel -
a half dozen issues of Spider
a half dozen issues of Ladybug
a half dozen issues of Click
- kids? 
PaulMc - How's The Tower of Fear by Glen Cook?
erazmus - I'm curious what you thought of LOS and SOS?
Nicholas - Who's reading Hondo?
xiaotien - those are pretty good books by OSC - I hope you enjoy them!
crystalwizard - I'll be reading the His Majesty's Dragon trilogy this year, the last 2 books as reviews for SFReader, so you can put them on your back-burner and read something else 
Steve G - I've been meaning to comment on Dening's Mr. Bligh’s Bad Language ever since I saw it on your site reading list - this sounds very interesting. Your reading list is rather intriguing.
So, do we wanna keep this thread as a constant?
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Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 2/19/2007 12:10 AM | It's stickied
Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!
Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard
All my books in print:
http://sojourn.omnitech.net |
| Posted By : Nicholas - 2/19/2007 4:53 AM | Jason, Hondo was read by David Strathairn. It's my first Lamour--good listening for my long drives through the wooded landscape to and from work. I'll probably be checking out more of them from the library.
|
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 2/19/2007 12:02 PM | Good idea Howard.
Genghis Khan was a good bio, one of the livelier I've read on GK, and my favorite part was the appendicies, which really shed some light on some of the most interesting aspects of the mongol conquests in my opinion. Lamb is hard to find, but I was lucky enough to buy all of his biographies in a lot on ebay recently, paperbacks from the fifties or sixties that are in amazingly supple condition...one of my best purchases by far. |
| Posted By : erazmus - 2/19/2007 12:44 PM | I loved LoS and SoS. I have pretty much stopped serious reading for the moment, I've got other irons in the fire-- I'm actually writing!
Mike
Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm
"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php |
| Posted By : PaulMc - 2/20/2007 10:11 AM | Howard von Darkmoor said...
PaulMc - How's The Tower of Fear by Glen Cook?
Great. But, I'm a Cook fanboy, anyway. I'll admit the ending seemed to drag a little too long from the turning point, but it was a rich Arabic setting that was very different. Minimal sorcery, although two sorcerers are what created the situation of the story in the beginning. Lots of duplicitous characters that keep you guessing as to their plans and their motives. Good stuff.
-- Paul McNamee
My Writings
The Tales of Doran Coyle
Managing Editor, SwordAndSorcery.org |
| Posted By : xiaotien - 2/20/2007 7:05 PM | jason, unfortunately, i didn't find the how
to book particularly helpful.
this will be the first time i'm
reading brave new world.
it's about time!
cyrstalwizard, dragonbone chair
was my favorite fantasy book back
in college. i picked it up again recently
to reread and found it difficult to
get back into the tale!
i'm opting to read other books
rather than reread my old favorite.
yikes. perhaps reading tastes do change.
cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
|
| Posted By : Swashbuckler - 2/21/2007 12:32 AM | Jason: "Mr. Bligh's Bad Language" is indeed fascinating. I snatch up books about the Bounty mutiny every chance I get; "Mutiny on the Bounty" was one of the first really good books I ever read and I've been a bit of a Bounty-phile ever since.
I grabbed this one in a New England book store, which the owner opened up after seeing me, my wife and kid on his front step looking dejected because he was closed. I was determined to buy something after that -- and I was really glad to find the Bligh book! Another good one to look for is "Captain Bligh's Portable Nightmare," by John Toohey. It's focus is almost entirely on the journey Bligh and those loyal to him made in the launch after being kicked off the Bounty by Fletcher Christian and Company. Jolly good read!
Steve Goble
Visit my web site for news on upcoming stories or visit my blog, Swords Against Boredom |
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 2/22/2007 5:14 PM | | @Howard: Have you started the Historian yet? Personally, I thought it was a package of hype-wrapped turgidity, but I stopped reading after page sixty or so. Curious if I missed something. |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 2/22/2007 5:53 PM | I've started on Writer's Journey, and so far I can highly recomend it. Not fiction but well worth reading and seriously thinking about for any writer.
Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!
Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard
All my books in print:
http://sojourn.omnitech.net |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 2/22/2007 6:56 PM | WDWard said...
@Howard: Have you started the Historian yet? Personally, I thought it was a package of hype-wrapped turgidity, but I stopped reading after page sixty or so. Curious if I missed something.
Negative. I put a bookmark in it but when I received the David Gemmell books from Pete to review for SFReader I picked them up instead 
The Historian was loaned to me by a friend who borrows tons of my books -- the first book to make such a return trip. Whenever I finish it I'll let you know it's on my blog.
Any chance you were in the mood to sell a fella a Lamb book or two? Or twenty?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : Swashbuckler - 2/22/2007 6:59 PM | Jason: I'll be looking forward to your thoughts on "The Historian" as well. I did finish it, and I have some specific problems with it -- but I'll wait until you read it before discussing those.
Steve Goble
Visit my web site for news on upcoming stories or visit my blog, Swords Against Boredom |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 2/22/2007 7:04 PM | Sounds good, Steve -- but, as I'm sure you know from monitoring my blog, it may be awhile!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 2/22/2007 7:28 PM | Howard von Darkmoor said... Any chance you were in the mood to sell a fella a Lamb book or two? Or twenty?
nope, they're in the permanent, 'cold dead hands,' part of my collection  |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 2/22/2007 7:50 PM | WDWard said...
nope, they're in the permanent, 'cold dead hands,' part of my collection
Which prompts me to ask "WD - just how old are you?" 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 2/22/2007 11:20 PM | Huh. I don't recall hearing of Kostova's novel until reading Howard's list. The story I currently have in the Critter queue is "The Historian." No vampires, but the title character is immortal, and the story touches on intentional and unintentional manipulation of memory and history.
I wonder how many critiques will mention Kostova.
--Jeff Stehman
"The Goblin Hunter," Jim Baen's Universe (Feb 2007) |
| Posted By : Swashbuckler - 2/23/2007 2:16 AM | Jeff: I imagine you'll see Kostova mentioned in a lot of your critiques. The book was subject of a bidding war between publishers who thought it would be the next "The Da Vinci Code," so there was a lot of hype before publication. I had to sign up on a waiting list at my local library; I think I was ninth or tenth on the list in a small community. So your critters are going to know the book.
I'm guessing your story is significantly different, from the sound of it. You'll likely be able to get away with a different title if you want.
Steve Goble
Visit my web site for news on upcoming stories or visit my blog, Swords Against Boredom |
| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 2/23/2007 10:39 AM | Swashbuckler said...
I'm guessing your story is significantly different, from the sound of it.
It's only 2,700 words, for one.
--Jeff Stehman
"The Goblin Hunter," Jim Baen's Universe (Feb 2007) |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 2/23/2007 1:29 PM | Just started Starship Titanic. supposed to be finished with it by next thursday! Not gonna happen. I'm not too sure about it just yet.
Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!
Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard
All my books in print:
http://sojourn.omnitech.net |
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 2/23/2007 2:25 PM | I'll put you in the will Howard...but that means I sure as hell won't tell you where you can find me. ;)
Do you also want the hdbk March of the Barbarians and collectors library Crusades set? or should they go to Goodwill? |
| Posted By : ScrewMoonshine - 2/27/2007 12:04 PM | Dragon Angel, how'd you like Twenty Years After? One of my all-time favorites, and definitely the best of the Musketeers trilogy in my opinion.
Robert Orme
Out now:
"Such Dreams" in Amazing Journeys Magazine #12 (www.journeybookspublishing.com)
"On the Tree Top" in Ultraverse vol.3 #5 (www.ultraverse.us)
Coming soon:
"The Scab, the Man, and the I.V." in Mount Zion Speculative Fiction Review #3 (www.mountzionpress.com)
"More Than One Way to Protect" in Lords of Justice (www.carnifexpress.net/blogs/)
"And Afterward" and "Candy Lover" in Flashshot, April 30 and May 23 (www.gwthomas.org/subscribe.htm) |
| Posted By : xiaotien - 3/1/2007 6:36 PM | just finished brave new world.
i found it a good and interesting read.
pretty amazing to have been published
in 1932, imo.
not sure what i will read next.
perhaps a elizabeth moon book.
or margaret weis or edding's belgariad.
i have 1984 on my shelf which i've
never read. i'm hesitant to follow with
that book after brave new world.
don't want to get too depressed about
mankind's future. =)
cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
|
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 3/1/2007 6:55 PM | xiaotien said...
just finished brave new world.
i found it a good and interesting read.
pretty amazing to have been published
in 1932, imo.
not sure what i will read next.
perhaps a elizabeth moon book.
or margaret weis or edding's belgariad.
i have 1984 on my shelf which i've
never read. i'm hesitant to follow with
that book after brave new world.
don't want to get too depressed about
mankind's future. =)
How about reading something from one of the authors or small press publishers here?
Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!
Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard
All my books in print:
http://sojourn.omnitech.net |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 3/1/2007 7:48 PM | PaulMc said...
I'm a Cook fanboy, anyway.
Paul -
What do you think of A Cruel Wind: A Chronicle Of The Dread Empire? Or the rest of the Dread Empire for that matter - I haven't read any of them.
And Lord of the Silent Kingdom (Instrumentalities of the Night)?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : PaulMc - 3/2/2007 10:42 AM | Howard von Darkmoor said...PaulMc said...
I'm a Cook fanboy, anyway. What do you think of A Cruel Wind: A Chronicle Of The Dread Empire? Or the rest of the Dread Empire for that matter - I haven't read any of them. And Lord of the Silent Kingdom (Instrumentalities of the Night)?
I just bought Lord... last night so it will be a while before I get to read it.
Fan boy notwithstanding, I've got so many books and not much reading time so I haven't gotten to A Cruel Wind yet, but it looks great (it's an omnibus, btw, if you didn't know, of the first three novels.)
I have read An Ill Fate Marshalling, I'm not sure where it comes in the series, though it must come after October's Baby. I liked it alot .. but it REALLY needed a map in the foreword. There were so many empires, nations and prinicipalities mentioned that it took a while to sort it out. But the characters pulled me right in.
BTW - I also found last night that the Garret novel (the first, I think) Sweet Silver Blues has been reprinted. I wonder if Jim Butcher Dresden Files success was an influence on the publisher (ROC). I only have about half the Garret series, so I'd be happy if they all came out again.
-- Paul McNamee
My Writings
The Tales of Doran Coyle
Managing Editor, SwordAndSorcery.org |
| Posted By : Nicholas - 3/9/2007 3:39 AM | ST,
I see I'm not the only one who's been reading Louis Lamour! I'm also about finished with Sol Stein's book. I've been using his advice for a novel I'm working on.
|
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 3/9/2007 4:45 AM | I just got Goblin Quest a couple days ago and I'm about 3/4 finished with it. It's one of the few books I've picked up in recent years that I've had a hard time putting down. It's usually difficult for me to focus on reading something because I've got my own books pushing at me and I can't concentrate. I'm having the opposite problem right now. I'm trying to edit, and finding it hard not to just finish Jim's book! May is going to be a long ways away.
It's a great story, it's hysterical, it's got one of the best hero's I think I've met yet, and for anyone that's a gamer, especially an AD&D type gamer, it's a must read. If you haven't gotten a copy yet, you need to.
Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!
Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard
All my books in print:
http://sojourn.omnitech.net |
| Posted By : Kuroboshii - 3/9/2007 2:31 PM | Say, Jeff, what did you think of Black Brillion? I read it a while back, and it...well, I was disappointed. Hughes seemed a bit more interested in delivering witty one-liners than developing a dramatically interesting story, and I thought his language/style often got in the way of story-telling.
It had a lot of cool ideas, but I never really cared, partly because I thought Harkless was fairly hard to connect with.
Okay, but not great would summarize it for me.
Sean T. M. Stiennon (AKA Suuran Songforge)
Check out my author page at www.sfreader.com/authors/seanstiennon |
| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 3/9/2007 3:47 PM | Suuran Songforge said...
partly because I thought Harkless was fairly hard to connect with.
I can understand that. I had the benefit of reading "A Helper and His Hero" in F&SF before I read _Black Brillion_. (My wife read them the other way around, but she's forgiving.) "A Helper" is the same story, but from Guth Bandar's POV, and in it you get to see how truly unusual Harkless is--almost not human. The two stories together made for interesting reading.
I've read a half-dozen Guth Bandar stories. Much to his dismay, his life was orchestrated by an outside force to prepare him for the events in _Black Brillion_ (as was Harkless's).
As for the language, I've always thought that was the brilliance of Hughes' penultimate earth stories. He uses language that feels very different from our own, yet I have no trouble understanding the meaning.
--Jeff Stehman |
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 3/15/2007 12:13 AM | Couple bibliobite shout-outs:
@Howard, ever tackle the Historian yet? I'm looking forward to reading Battles of the Medieval World soon myself (thanks for the tip on that on).
@Jeff, The Vondish Ambassador is a name that pops up a lot, would you offer a capsule review of a few sentences?
@xiaotien, How'd you like Friday? There's about a hundred books I'd recommend as a first scifi book before that...it didn't send you running for the hills I hope?
@Nicholas: How'd did you like the Winchester book? I haven't read that one myself, but his two books on the Oxford English Dictionary were excellent, riviting and fascinating stuff (The Professor and the Madman especially). I really should hunt more of his books down, his Krakatoa book looks like a good one too.
I caught a long interview with him on book tv one day, really interesting guy, and I love his writing set up--he has his own converted barn/shed/guest house in his back yard that he commutes to everyday :)
@Sean, How does Knight's fantasy compare to his vampire earth novels? I thought those were a bit rough personally.
@cyrstalwizard, how's Bradbury's sequel to D-wine? I haven't read any 'latter' Bradbury beyond one novel I found disappointing (Lets All Kill Constance), how's this compare? Did you read His Majesty's Dragon yet?
@Steve Gobel, how'd you like the Dawkins? Haven't read it myself but if you haven't already read The Blind Watchmaker check it out, its his seminal work a mechanistic universe.
Did you like Leiber's Big Time? I may have had an ugly mood day when I read it but I really didn't care for it, or even much follow it.
@STForstner, how would you rate those writing books? Any recommendations? |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 3/15/2007 12:34 AM | WDWard said...
Couple bibliobite shout-outs:
@Howard, ever tackle the Historian yet? I'm looking forward to reading Battles of the Medieval World soon myself (thanks for the tip on that on).
Sorry - I cheated - my daughter has been asking me since Christmas to get Brandon Mull's Fablehaven review done so she can than read the book - I can only refuse her for so long. I told her after I read these two books - pointing at both The Historian and another equally thick book and she groaned. So, after she went to bed, I of course started Fablehaven. I promise, Historian is next.
Then I'm going on an Erikson binge - I need to read books 5 and 6 yet and 7 will be out soon.
And yes, I've been enjoying the Battles book, despite taking my time with it. I find I grasp books like that better if I don't consume them all in one dose, allowing myself to spend time on each battle. I still probably won't remember much, but that's because my memory cells are mortal
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 3/15/2007 12:50 AM | I do the same thing, for Battles I'd probably do a battle a day, unless it was one I was already very familair with, like Hastings.
Erikson must be good to keep you reading the series, I've been curious about him myself. I haven't taken the plunge yet though, partially because of the difficulty in getting the books secondhand...cheap bastard I know. I'll get them new when (if) they come out in papaerback, and once I free up some space in my collection. |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 3/15/2007 1:27 AM | Hey, I've been picking up Erikson's Garden's of the Moon hardcover on Barnes & Noble's Bargain Shelves and Half-Price Books' shelves for $5.98 and giving them to friends. And I just saw book 3, Memories of Ice, on Monday night at Half-Price Books for (I think) $6.98 - that was the best book I read in 2006 and I almost bought it again just to own a second copy of myself. Oh, I was so tempted. But instead I bought 3 hardcover Golden Press Doc Savage books!
So, anyway, there is NO excuse to not be getting into Erikson!* Prior to early 2006 I used to swear by George RR Martin's series A Song of Ice and Fire. Now I say that Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series is to Martin's what his is to everyone else's!
*Unless you're like Armand, who despises any and all magic in his fantasy. Erikson's books reek of magic. And they have 300,000 plus years of history and races of such stunning in-depth work it's unbelievable. The overwhelming complaint (and only truly valid one as far as I am concerned) about Erikson's series is that it is too complex.
Sure it is - for our popcorn-reading habits generation. Erikson wrote a - pardon the expression ladies - manly man's series. By this I simply mean something you can sink your teeth into and bite off a massive chunk of to stick in a cheek for days to gestate before ruminating on it and gradually digesting its power. And believe me, there are plenty of powerful women in these books, too! I love Erikson's work and, as I mentioned on some other thread, he's written the exact combination of power and pleasure that I've wanted to write.
If you do read him, know that GotM was written long before the rest of the series and is his worst book to date. By which I mean that things get awesomely better, not that this is a terrible book. The middle is quite convuluted and has thrown several critics out of the series altogether, but I think the ending and the setup for what's to come more than recompenses the reader for his time and effort in getting there.
Each of the reviews I've done on the Malazan-related books are here: vondarkmoor.blogspot.com/search?q=steven+erikson
Sorry this got so long, it wasn't the intention. I just like Erikson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 3/15/2007 2:08 AM | The Vondish Ambassador is in the Ethshar series. Chronologically, it comes a few years after The Unwilling Warlord, in which the Empire of Vond is created. The protagonist is Emmis, a freelance dockworker in Ethshar of the Spices. When the Vondish Ambassador arrives in EotS, he hires Emmis as a guide. The job evolves into that of aide, and he ends up dealing with assassins, both magical and mundane, and mixing with high-powered lords and wizards. In short, he's in way over his head, yet he has an active role in the plot.
A lot of details about the world of Ethshar are revealed in this one, especially if you read the accompanying blog or the various threads on rec.arts.sf.written. I suspect some readers would find too much world detail in it. When Emmis is crossing the city, his path is often given, street name by street name. (That's also true in Ithanalin's Restoration, which I'm currently reading.) LWE has a very detailed world in Ethshar, including city maps. He doesn't go out of his way to give this info to the reader, but he doesn't hide it when the characters encounter it or discuss it, either. Many of the characters in this book are pretty mundane, like Emmis. That's also fairly common in Ethshar books.
What is posted on-line is the first draft. A hardcopy edition will be published by Wildside Press. Chapter one can be found here: http://www.ethshar.com/thevondishambassador1.html . I don't know for how long, but at least through March. Those who contributed were given access to a couple maps, one of the Ethshar of the Spices with the locations of a few scenes marked, and one of the Empire of Vond. People who contribued $25 or more will receive a signed copy of the book.
--Jeff Stehman |
| Posted By : Kuroboshii - 3/15/2007 10:55 AM | W,
I actually like Knight's Age of Fire books a lot better than his VE stuff, in large part b/c VE is a bit too dark for my tastes.
They're still fairly episodic (which is something I hear people complain about w/ the VE books) but I think they're smoother written overall. Less emphasis on worldbuilding, more on character development, with all-around awesome stories. I highly recommend 'em and am eagerly awaiting Dragon Outcast.
Sean T. M. Stiennon (AKA Suuran Songforge)
Check out my author page at www.sfreader.com/authors/seanstiennon |
| Posted By : carnifexpress - 3/16/2007 4:45 PM |
Howard von Darkmoor said...
*Unless you're like Armand, who despises any and all magic in his fantasy. Not exactly true... I enjoy most of the Forgotten Realms books I've read so far - and getting close to breaking reading 100 of the 200+ - I just dislike it when the main character is a wizard or relies on magic to fight. I prefer the strong swordsman killing everything with a blade and a Clash of Steel rather than some skinny twerp using magic missiles to slay a dragon.
Armand Rosamilia, posting about Jason without a snide comment for once.
*Jasonisajackasshead*
Visit Carnifex Press for more information!
The Freehold site is now up!
|
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 3/16/2007 5:15 PM | bray, bray, snort, hay!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 3/16/2007 5:17 PM | and I knew you were going to correct that - I almost went into explaining your idiotsyncricies, er, idiosyncricies, but I figured my post was long enough
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : xiaotien - 3/16/2007 6:52 PM | crystalwiz, any suggestions?? =)
has any man on here read pride and prejudice?
and will he admit to it?
it was my first time reading austen, pretty good stuff.
oh, am i not supposed to talk about
non-speculative fiction?
any tad williams fans out there?
i just met the author this monday and
got shadowplay signed, part of his newest
trilogy. he's really funny and chatty
in person.
i also got my michael whelan print signed
for the cover of stone of farewell. <3
i know, i'm such a girly. haha!
cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
|
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 3/16/2007 8:27 PM | I've read Pride and Prejudice, the only Austen so far. I enjoyed it, but it didn't exactly rock my world or anything. I prefer writers at the other end of the nineteenth century I think. One of her novels that deals with isolation and ostracism, Mansfield Park? Emma? I don't remember, sounds interesting and will probably be the next of her books I try.
I've read William's Mem, Sorrow, etc. and thought it was ok, far too drawn out in places, very good in others, with some solid prose throughout. A good epic, one I don't think I'll slog through again however. The historical equivalencies were at times a bit to heavy-handed for me as well, I would have prefered a bit more of a twist on the cultures, rather than having obvious greeks, romans, celts, norse, and japanese elves. Still, it was at no time unenjoyable. I'd read his other stuff, Otherland seems interesting.
So what did you think of Friday xiaotien? I thought it was just a bit on the plus side of dreadful honestly, and I always feel embarassed for latter-day Heinlein, like he was my once proud old uncle that now-a-days just can't keep his hands off girl's bottoms at parties.
@Sean; I may just check those out then. I think he's got real ability, just VE had some freshmen mistakes that made me put the book aside unfinished.
@Jeff, that sounds quite good! thanks. |
| Posted By : Swashbuckler - 3/18/2007 4:52 AM | WD: I did like the Dawkins book, quite a bit. I've read a lot of his stuff, and seen some interviews and lectures. I enjoy him immensely. I'm not quite as militantly anti-religion as he is, though. I'm an agnostic/ DIY Buddhist.
I also enjoyed "The Big Time" by Leiber, but confess it took me a while to get into it. It starts rather slowly as he eases you into the setting and concepts he's playing with. Once it got up to speed, I liked it a lot -- and I could kind of see why he eased readers into the thing the way he did. I may even give "Ship of Shadows" another try; that's a Leiber piece I've started several times, and I always give up about six pages in because it is just too hard to follow. But maybe, when I'm in an exploratory mood, I'll try it again.
A few Leiber science fiction books I did enjoy are "A Spectre is Haunting Texas," "The Wanderer," and "The Silver Eggheads." And a lot of his short science fiction stuff is really good. But Fafhrd and the Mouser are my favorite Leiber creations, of course.
Steve Goble
Visit my web site for news on upcoming stories or visit my blog, Swords Against Boredom |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 3/18/2007 6:39 PM | xiaotien said...
crystalwiz, any suggestions?? =)
Oh I have lots of suggestions... but they might not be on topic ;)
What were you wanting suggestions on? |
| Posted By : xiaotien - 3/25/2007 12:35 PM | crystalw, you mentioned i might read
something written by an author here??
i wondered if you had suggestions? not
that my reading pile isn't big right now,
but for future reference. =)
wd, thanks for being man enough to
admit you read P & P! =) i did enjoy it,
but no, it didn't rock my world.
as for friday, i enjoyed it.
i did find it a bit heavy-handed in
sharing his own beliefs about open
relationships and all that. the fact
that friday was the epitome of most
men's fantasies amused me very much.
cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
|
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 3/25/2007 2:41 PM | | That's probably the best way to look at those elements of late heinlein: bemusedly. |
| Posted By : STForstner - 3/30/2007 7:46 PM | Just getting back to this thread, sorry guys.
I got caught up in the L'Amour books and haven't been able to stop. They're easy reads, not a lot of thinking required amd all similar enough in construction that they make nice reading before bedtime.
Of the writing books, anything by Bickham beats the heck out of most of the others. He had a very clear methodology, but you have to follow it. "Between the Lines" didn't do much for me. I've read enough writing books that all I expect anymore is one small tidbit of something new. If I get one new idea, I figure the book was worth it. Between the Lines didn't supply me with that. It's probably a good enough book if you've never had any other writing books, but it pales next to Stein or Bickham. The feeling of being coached by someone who really understands the craft of writing isn't there. It's more like someone who really understands coaching about the craft of writing. It's a subtle difference, but enough to make the book less useful to me.
Story Structure Architect was very dry and repititious. It gives you the story type (say supplication) and then it tells you what elements are necessary and where to expect them to fall in the story--beginning, middle or end. Not terribly useful on a day to day basis, but it did modify my overall view of fiction enough to be helpful.
My top recommends are still Bickham's "Scene and structure", Knight's "Creating Short Fiction", Stein's "Stein on Writing", and Longyear's "Science Fiction Writer's Workshop #1"
I'm now starting on Gardner's "The art of Fiction." Pretty flowery so far and on a par with Mailer in that respect, but not so chest thumping as Mailer's book was, so hopefully I'll be able to finish it. I have 9 others on the shelf that I want to finish by the end of the year. Man, do I like punishment or what?
|
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 3/31/2007 10:22 PM | | Thanks for the rundown on those, I think I'll check out Stein and Bickman. I also got a lot of out of Knight's book. |
| Posted By : STForstner - 4/1/2007 10:40 AM | 20 pages into Gardner's book. So far this one is getting high marks. It captures and holds my attention real well. Unless there is a drastic change, which I don't expect, this one will be on my recommend list.
Has anybody else noticed this about L'Amour's books? He starts every one like a stumbling racehorse. He comes out of the chute staggering, reeling and sway backed. Then at about the first turn he hits his stride, all of the info dumping is gone and by the time the story ends, he has left the other horses in the dust. These are great books, I just wish they started a little faster.
|
| Posted By : erazmus - 4/1/2007 10:54 AM | Gads man! If they started as fast as they finished you'd be done before you began!
Mike
Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm
"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 4/1/2007 1:12 PM | Yup, I'd agree with that analysis, ST. And Mike, too, for that matter. I found LL in 7th grade and read every single one of his books I could get my hands on. Loved most of 'em and raced through them all. I'm pretty sure I have the whole collection; guess I'll find out whenever I get to entering them into my LibraryThing.
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Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 4/1/2007 1:48 PM | The only L'Amour I've read is _Last of the Breed_, but I thought it the other way around. It started fine, but the ending kinda wandered off.
--Jeff Stehman |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 4/1/2007 2:51 PM | If I recall it properly, Last of the Breed is also his only more 'modern' work - wasn't that the one with the jet pilot? I liked his older non-Westerns, usually shorts, I think. The Hills of Homicide is a fun little collection in my opinion.
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Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : STForstner - 4/1/2007 3:19 PM | I haven't hit 'Last of the breed' yet. I'm working on 'Westward the Tide' and I have 'Son of a Wanted Man' and 'The Elder Gods' still waiting. I also picked up a harcover copy of a short story volume. I'm interested to see how his style changes when writing short.
|
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 4/1/2007 3:42 PM | You're bringing back some old memories, ST! It's been 20+ years on most of those books, but I recall liking Son of a Wanted Man and, while I also liked The Elder Gods I think that one was his most 'far out there one' - it could qualify as speculative fiction.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : STForstner - 4/4/2007 7:10 PM | The Broken Gun also was reasonably modern and had jeeps in it. I also saw one that was set in WWII.
|
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 4/4/2007 8:58 PM | Yes, that's why I continue to recommend Hills of Homicide - it's got stories in the detective, war, and boxing genres, and I'm sure a few more I can't recall right now
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Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : STForstner - 4/5/2007 6:58 PM | I've been kind of afraid to move away from his westerns. Are the others similar in structure? Or does he include a fist fight and a gun battle in every one?
|
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 4/5/2007 10:49 PM | OK ST, you backed me against a wall. I had to get up off my keister and find the book on the shelf and skim through it. I also checked around on the internet. Yondering and Hills are two collections of non-Western short stories. I don't recall the former much, other than the title, but I often think fondly of the later. I couldn't tell you a single storyline anymore, but I do know I liked the boxer detective character LL created. I remember there were fist and knife fights and bad women and badder men. He states upfront in the forward that the stories were originally penned early in his career and published in the pulpy detective rags. He cleaned each story up some for the collection, though. I'm pretty sure each of the stories in both of these books were supposed to be traceable back to events/locales in LL's meandering early life.
I'm glad he wrote the Westerns in the quantity he did, but I don't regret reading Hills. I think it's safe to say you wouldn't either.
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Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 4/8/2007 12:35 AM | Oh, in case anyone is wondering, I'm having the dickens of a time getting into The Historian - I will read it and I'm curious where she's going with this tale, but she sure is taking her sweet ass time getting there.
I had some specialized training the last 2 days and we're allowed to bring PB books along as long as they fit in a pocket so I had to chose another since The Historian definitely won't fit in a pocket. So I've started Naomi Novak's His Majesty's Dragon and, while it has some prose problems, it is a much faster read. I'll pull myself away from it and get back to . . . well, maybe . . .
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Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : Nicholas - 4/10/2007 10:17 PM | WD: Sorry I haven't checked in on this thread in a while. I did read Winchester's The Madman and the Professor a couple years ago and found it riveting. Probably a book I'll read again someday. The Map That Changed the World I got through because I was listening to it on the commute--captive audience. If I'd been reading it, I may have set it aside a couple times and not picked it back up, but that's only because of a few longish passages about rock strata, and I've never been much of a rock hunter.
|
| Posted By : xiaotien - 4/17/2007 6:06 PM | i read three books while on holiday
in fiji. only one was fantasy, tho.
amber and iron by margaret weis. enjoyed
it. liked the twist.
also read a book from my favorite
author, iris murdoch. an unofficial rose.
and read fitzgerald's this side of paradise.
wasn't as good as tender is the night
or the great gatsby, but good for a 23 year old.
and more literary than i'll ever write.
now reading moon's once a hero as
well as tad william's latest shadowplay.
cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
|
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 4/17/2007 11:51 PM | Welcome back, Cindy - I hope the vacation was terrific. I read Amber & Iron almost a year ago and you can catch my thoughts here vondarkmoor.blogspot.com/search?q=amber+iron I also like Weis's writing and enjoy visits to Krynn.
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Jason
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit www.vondarkmoor.blogspot.com to find out. |
| Posted By : xiaotien - 4/19/2007 9:43 PM | great review, howie.
interestingly enough, i picked up the
dragons of autumn twilight (and the other two
in the trilogy) before i met weis for my
private critique.
i found it really slow going.
i have a feeling that if i had found the
books at a younger age, i may have enjoyed
them a lot more.
i never read the other two books in
the trilogy.
the next series i read was this amber
one. so i went from the first dragonlance
book she wrote to her most recent one.
cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
|
| Posted By : Swashbuckler - 4/30/2007 2:32 AM | Just finished reading "Galapagos" by Kurt Vonnegut. I'd never read that one before. Damn, this is good stuff.
Steve Goble
Visit my blog, Swords Against Boredom, for news on upcoming stories. |
| Posted By : Nicholas - 4/30/2007 4:41 AM | | Steve, I was surprised to learn from news reports on his death that he only published 14 novels. With an output that small, it would be no trouble at all to read his whole ouvre!
|
| Posted By : Kuroboshii - 4/30/2007 9:42 AM | Ahoy, Jeff, I couldn't help but note that you read Six with Flinteye this April...dare I ask what you thought?
Sean T. M. Stiennon (AKA Suuran Songforge)
Check out my author page at www.sfreader.com/authors/seanstiennon |
| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 4/30/2007 11:14 PM | Suuran Songforge said...
Ahoy, Jeff, I couldn't help but note that you read Six with Flinteye this April...dare I ask what you thought?
It seems to have magically vanished (a clever ploy by your publisher to reuse copies?) so I can't get specific.
I often found the robot more interesting than Flinteye, who seemed to only have three or four discrete emotions and/or modes of operation and nothing inbetween. Every now and then something about the writing would strike me as amateurish. The one example I remember is how the physical description of Flinteye was worked into the first story, which I thought was poorly done. For the most part, though, the writing was good. I can't wait to see what your writing is like at 30.
My reaction to the stories varied a lot. Only one bored me--I think it was the story in which all the critters were part of one entity. I thought the last one was the best. Despite half the story pretty much being one long running battle, the tension stayed high instead of burning out. Plus the black-clad guest bodyguard was really cool.
Overall, I enjoyed it and I was glad I bought it. Incidentally, my wife describes it as men's adventure set in space. I hope that's a good thing. 
--Jeff Stehman |
| Posted By : Swashbuckler - 4/30/2007 11:23 PM | Nicholas: Reading all of Vonnegut's work sounds like a good idea to me ...
Steve Goble
Visit my blog, Swords Against Boredom, for news on upcoming stories. |
| Posted By : ScrewMoonshine - 5/1/2007 1:57 PM | Jeff Stehman said...Suuran Songforge said...
Ahoy, Jeff, I couldn't help but note that you read Six with Flinteye this April...dare I ask what you thought? It seems to have magically vanished (a clever ploy by your publisher to reuse copies?) so I can't get specific. I often found the robot more interesting than Flinteye, who seemed to only have three or four discrete emotions and/or modes of operation and nothing inbetween. Every now and then something about the writing would strike me as amateurish. The one example I remember is how the physical description of Flinteye was worked into the first story, which I thought was poorly done. For the most part, though, the writing was good. I can't wait to see what your writing is like at 30.
I must protest! The opening scene(with Flinteye's physical description) was very gripping and pulled me right into the book. And while not blindingly original, I found Flinteye one of the most compelling and well-defined characters I've read in recent years. I'd count him among those characters who seem to have taken on a life of their own. Axten is actually the one I find to be without a whole lot to his behavior or motivations; he moves the plot along, but doesn't add anything of interest to me.
Oh, and just in case I haven't been contrary enough, "Flinteye and Okeron" was one of my favorite stories in the book. Sean actually had me repeatedly wondering how the heck Flinteye and Axten were going to get out of that mess.
Robert Orme
Out now:
"On the Tree Top" in Ultraverse vol.3 #5 (www.ultraverse.us)
"The Scab, the Man, and the I.V." in Mount Zion Speculative Fiction Review #3 (www.mountzionpress.com)
Coming soon:
"More Than One Way to Protect" in Lords of Justice (www.carnifexpress.net/blogs/)
"And Afterward" and "Candy Lover" in Flashshot, April 30 and May 23 (www.gwthomas.org/subscribe.htm) |
| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 5/1/2007 2:12 PM | Robert, perhaps you could give me a list of books you recommend so I can avoid them.
--Jeff Stehman |
| Posted By : Kuroboshii - 5/1/2007 4:15 PM | | Thanks for the remarks, Jeff! Finally someone who agrees w/ me that "Flinteye in the City" is far and away the best in the collection . Actually, I'm pretty gratified by your comments on the writing, given that I would probably be a lot harder on it myself. I think my writing has generally improved a lot in the past three years.
And thanks again for the praise, Robert! Rest assured that if I ever break into publishing in a big way, you'll eventually see either Flinteye or someone very much like him coming up again.
(I know I'm digging a pretty deep self-promo grave here, but if anyone hungers for more men's adventure in space, I highly recommend Memory Wipe over at Ray Gun Revival. Logline: Sean-style space opera meets The Bourne Identity)
Sean T. M. Stiennon (AKA Suuran Songforge) Check out my author page at www.sfreader.com/authors/seanstiennon |
| Posted By : xiaotien - 5/27/2007 11:38 AM | finished my first sci fi opera book by
moon -- once a hero.
i found it slow in the first half.
but the second was much more
interesting to me. she does a good
job of creating heros you like.
ultimately, however, it isn't my favorite
genre to read. i do still have another
of her serrano books to read.
also finally finished shadowplay by
williams. anyone else a fan of his?
i love how epic his stories are. i enjoyed
the book and look foward to the final
one in the trilogy.
cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
|
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 6/18/2007 3:38 PM | xiaotien, what translation of 'red chamber' are you reading? (assuming you aren't reading it in chinese). How are you enjoying the Golden Compass?
STForster: how'd you like Block's 'Telling Lies?' I love the guy, you should check out his mysteries if you haven't already.
bleached: nice job with the ratings, you've reminded me to track down a copy of 'Jennifer Government'
Nicholas, thanks for the warning re: Map, I think I've read enough about rock strata for the time being.
Daniel A.: how's the Algebraist in comparison with Bank's earlier culture stuff? (assuming you've read it), is that Jay Lake title his novel? How well did he transition to the long form?
Sean: Did Rothfuss live up to the hype? |
| Posted By : Daniel Ausema - 6/18/2007 4:40 PM | WD, for Banks, the only other thing I'd read was his The Bridge, which I loved. It's marketed and usually classified as mainstream, which seems a stretch, though at the same time it wouldn't fit comfortably within SF or fantasy really either. So I can't compare it to the other Culture novels...though it did make me very curious about them. I enjoyed the book quite a bit, though at the same time I don't think I'm quite the target audience...and I'm having a hard time defining why. It might be that while I enjoy space opera (as I enjoy all variants of the speculative genres), I didn't grow up reading tons of it. So it's probably best enjoyed by those who read lots of that kind of story back in high school but feel a bit embarrassed about digging out those same titles that they'd enjoyed back then. (As for myself, Martin fills that role--an epic fantasy that I'm not embarrassed to read like I would be for some of the things I liked in my early teens.) It may also be that I had set my expectations too high because of Banks' reputation. I've had that before with other works, where I expect so much from a book or story that there's little chance it will live up to it.
That makes it sound like I didn't like it, which is certainly not true--it was intriguing and full of wonder and well written.
The Jay Lake book is the novel from Nightshade that came out...this past winter? late last year? Something like that. (He has a new and apparently very different book from Tor that I just saw a review for on someone else's blog.) Again you're catching me at a bit of a disadvantage--I've been reading a lot of short fiction for the past couple of years, but before that little, and there's still so much to try to keep up with. So I'm only positive that I've read one Jay Lake story (from TextUR written with Ruth Nestvold, which I reviewed for Tangent...and thought was one of the best in the anthology), though I feel that I've read one or two others (has he had something in Subterranean? or maybe I read the story he posted for the Technocrat Peasant whatever that was a month of so ago?). So I'll just give my brief thoughts on the book. Comparisons to his short work I'll leave for others.
I enjoyed the book. I felt like it was definitely aimed at the New Weird audience (leaving aside for the moment whether there really is or ought to be such a defined subgenre, I think it's fair to say that at least there is an audience for that)...and sometimes it felt like he was stretching to make it as grotesque as he could rather than grotesque for the purpose of the story. At the time I read it I felt like within those books marketed at that audience, it fell about the same place Swainston's books about Jant and the Circle fell for me--enjoyable, but not something that's clamoring for me to reread. Not that the stories are really at all alike, despite both being marketed at times as New Weird. In some ways I think it was stronger than those, in others weaker...and at the moment it's those weaker aspects that seem to be rising to the surface when I recall it. For me, Bishops' Etched City keeps rising the farther I get from reading it, making me want to reread it perhaps even before I'd reread Mieville's books, though I wouldn't have guessed that at the time, while Jay's book and the Jant books just kind of rest there as pleasant enough memories. There were some very cool moments in the book though, and after reading the review of Jay's new book (which seems to be a steampunk-ish story and very different from the one I read), I definitely want to read it to see how it compares.
BTW, Jennifer Government is great fun. Lots of laughs, lots of sarcastic wit, skewering corporate culture. (Eminently worthy of some skewering, in my opinion ) I'd like to hear about Rothfuss's book too--I've been seeing lots of praise for the novel (including the review today on Strange Horizons).
Twigs and Brambles (my writing blog) |
| Posted By : xiaotien - 6/18/2007 4:49 PM | wd, i *wish* i could read it in chinese!
you've heard of the book? if so, i'm impressed.
i am reading the five volume translation by
david hawkes. it was initally published in
the 70's. i believe he was a professor at oxford.
the translation is a bit funny in that
he uses english slang a lot, like "bloody"
and "blighter", etc.
since i am writing from a setting of an
ancient china like kingdom, i get called a lot
on use of modern words or phrases.
i can understand this, and hawke's use
of english slang sort of puts me out of
the environment.
having said that, i can see how it is
a very difficult book to translate. lots
of puns, double meanings, riddles and
poetry in the original text.
i posted a blurb about the golden compass
on my blog, which i'll paste here :
...
i finished pullman's
the golden compass in
less than two days this week.
it was an easy and entertaining
read. i would say that it drew me
in quicker than the one e moon
book i read (once a hero).
but then, it may be that sci fi
really isn't my thing.
i rarely read YA, either.
but bought this one as a 3
for 2 deal at the bookstore.
london has these deals all the
time, and it was nice to see it
here, at american prices.
i think the golden compass was
strong in that the author had
good storytelling along with a
nice heroine of only eleven years.
i was pleased to see all the
"cliche" elements of the tale :
1. heroine is an "orphan" at the
start of the book.
2. she is part of a "prophecy".
3. there is a magical object that
helps her.
4. she is meant to "save the world".
all very been there done that elements.
but hey, the book was still a success
and will come out as a film later this
year. it just goes to show, good storytelling
trumps all. fortunately, the author is
a pretty good prose writer as well.
i also liked that one of the heroine's
strong traits was fibbing. =)
cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
|
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 6/18/2007 6:34 PM | @Daniel, The Etched City is one I've been looking forward to reading for a while, think I'll read it soon. Thanks for the input on the others, I recommend you try Bank's The Player of Games if you want to give the Culture another whirl, I think its his best of the few that I've read. Consider Phlebas is also good, Use of Weapons less so but he has some fun with the story structure that was interesting. And his non culture 'mainstream' novels The Wasp Factory and A Song of Stone are must reads imo. I regret to say I never got though The Bridge, something about the beginning just irritated me enough to close the book.
I didn't expect a comparison with his short fic (especially as I don't know enough about his shorts to benefit from one!), I just wanted to know if he could write a decent novel. Doesn't sound like it exactly rocked your world
@Xiaotien, I've read an abridged version, but I'm unsure of the translation. One thing I liked was that some of the puning and word play was translated to some extent in the translations of the characters names, ie. rather than giving a chinese transliteration for the main character he was called Magic Jade, the same with the others. I've always wanted to read it again, but it'll have to be after I read Three Kingdoms and Water Margin (Outlaws of the Marsh) in full unabridged translations, which I've been putting off for far too long.
Pretty sure my translation used 'Red Mansions' rather than Chamber as well, so it may have been slightly newer ... it may have actually used pinyin transliteration now that I think about it, which would mean the 80's at the earliest.
I just read the Dark Materials books myself and added a bit to the topic in this forum (watch out for spoilers though): I honestly think skipping the other two books is the way to go, but its hard to know just what different readers will respond too. That said, I won't say the next two are bad, but they don't live up to the promise of GC, which I thought was excellent. |
| Posted By : xiaotien - 6/19/2007 12:36 AM | wd, i've had the three kingdoms
on my shelf for ages, too.
i tried starting it twice, but my attention
always got diverted. it is something i
def want to read and considered another
chinese classic.
having said that, i should read journey
to the west as well.
the unabridged version (i think hawke's may
be the most recent translation, or only one?)
is a very long complicated read.
but i did enjoy it and am enjoying
it this time around, too.
i'm not sure if i'm willing to pay for the
other two books. as much as i enjoyed
the tale... my friend felt that the other
two were *better* than the first.
cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
|
| Posted By : Daniel Ausema - 6/19/2007 1:51 AM | I guess my response to Trial of Flowers was less than enthusiastic, but do notice that I said I liked the book. It's one that my thinking of it is likely to keep changing over the next few months, so don't take that as if I found it awful or anything. Etched City is an interesting one--I've seen some of the complaints about it (lack of coherent plot, for example), and I can see that, though I don't completely agree. I actually respect the opinions on books of the guys over at Inchoatus quite a bit, and they were not impressed--not that they strongly disliked it so much as they thought it didn't quite have the depth that those praising it ascribed to it. I read it after reading that review (I think it was their review of Etched City on Amazon that led me to find their site, in fact). Did that set my expectations lower, and therefore I was pleasantly surprised? Hard to say. But I do know it's one that has grown in my mind since reading it--I enjoyed it at the time, and it just seems like it's stuck around. Images appear in my mind, scenes, ideas... I'll still give it a few years before rereading, but I do think it's one I will reread, and I'll see then if it seems genuinely amazing or only has the illusion of depth.
I'd agree that His Dark Materials goes downhill as the series progresses--the final book especially seems to collapse a fair bit beneath a Message. At the same time, the beginning is such a high point, that even in falling it's above many other YA books that I've read. So I think I'd still say read the whole thing, though I think as you go you're more likely to pay more attention later on to thoughts of how and why he's doing what he's doing, or what works and what doesn't as a writer (and reader) rather than engrossed enjoyment as only a reader. At least that was my experience.
I'm curious to hear more about these Chinese books--I know nothing about them. Would you call them speculative? Can you give a brief description? (Guess I'll google it after I'm done posting this, but I'd love to hear how you would summarize them too.) I read The City Trilogy a few years ago--three very short SF novels by the Taiwanese writer Chang Hsi-Kuo. I can't say I loved it...though I also wouldn't say I disliked it nearly as much as the reviewer at SFSite did. Actually, John Clute's review on Scifi.com seems a pretty good way to see its strengths and weaknesses. (I just searched for reviews of it now--I hadn't seen these reviews before.) I guess I'd say it's a story I'm glad I've read...but I don't long to be in the middle of reading it again.
Twigs and Brambles (my writing blog) |
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 6/19/2007 6:31 AM | The Chinese books are basically novels, though as you can imagine a 'novel' written in, say, fourteenth century china is a bit different than the modern idiom. They're all very long, tend to be episodic, and are essentially popular literature written by chinese bureaucrats for their own amusement.
Romance of the Three Kingdoms is basically a historical novel written in the middle ages, and hews along the historical record of the three kingdoms period of the fourth century following the collapse of the Han dynasty, which is full of famous and legendary individuals and tales of their exploits. Wars and plots abound.
Water Margin/All Men Are Borthers/Outlaws of the Marsh was written a bit later I think, and deals with the episodic exploits of a band of outlaw heroes.
Joureny to the East that xiotien mentions has more fantastical elements, as it deals with a monkey king adventuring abroad.
Dream of the Red Chamber is an eighteenth century novel that is a big family drama.
Those are the 'big four' chinese novels.
I'll check out those reviews of the City Trilogy. |
| Posted By : bleacheddecay - 7/18/2007 2:51 AM | WDWard said...
xiaotien, what translation of 'red chamber' are you reading? (assuming you aren't reading it in chinese). How are you enjoying the Golden Compass?
STForster: how'd you like Block's 'Telling Lies?' I love the guy, you should check out his mysteries if you haven't already.
bleached: nice job with the ratings, you've reminded me to track down a copy of 'Jennifer Government'
Nicholas, thanks for the warning re: Map, I think I've read enough about rock strata for the time being.
Daniel A.: how's the Algebraist in comparison with Bank's earlier culture stuff? (assuming you've read it), is that Jay Lake title his novel? How well did he transition to the long form?
Sean: Did Rothfuss live up to the hype?
Thanks! I've just read four books in a row I didn't really like very much.
Dhalgren by Samuel R. Delany 2.5/5
Sunshine by Robin McKinley 2/5
The Golden Compass by Philip Pullman 2/5
The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty by A. N. Roquelaure 1.5/5
Okay, maybe they weren't ALL in a row but it just feels like that.
I'm going to make sure the next one is fun for ME. The Dresden Files is calling my name once more.
Golden Compass was okay once I got past how slow it started. Until the end in which I was throughly angered at the hubris, stupidity, and cruelty of the parents and the church. I hated the strange mixing of science, religion and magic because the assumptions were, in my mind wrong and lead to such horrors.
I must say though, how did that author think of such things? It was quite bizarre to me. If the explanation hadn't been so cruel and power hungry, involving the people and church that should have taken care of Lyra, I might have liked the book overall.
This is one situation in which I might actually like the movie better than the book. I won't be reading the sequels.
bleacheddecay |
| Posted By : STForstner - 7/20/2007 8:56 PM |
WDWard said...
STForster: how'd you like Block's 'Telling Lies?' I love the guy, you should check out his mysteries if you haven't already.
It was pretty neat. I've read enough writing books now that you have to approach the subject from a totally different angle if you want to impress me. Block managed to do that. There were a couple of points he made that were worth the whole book. It is an easy read, too. Which really helps. I mean how many of us want to read an instruction book for fun? A lot of the folks writing these books haven't figured that out yet, though. |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 8/24/2007 2:06 AM | Bill - speak to me about this one:
Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell________________Susanna Clarke
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Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Associate Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard |
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 8/24/2007 2:21 AM | It's excellent Jason, lived up to the hype in my opinion. Clarke does a wonderful job crafting a book that feels like a Victorian novel (almost a fictional history of English Magic, complete with footnotes) but has a structure and pace that is accessible to a modern reader, and is very inventive and consistently interesting throughout. I highly recommend it.
And having an English magician helping Wellington's army during the Napoleonic wars is just too damn cool, sorry if it's a spoiler--but its also an enticement for guys out there (like me) who might think this book is only about drawing rooms and fairies.
How are the Novak books? I'm guessing they might have a similar vibe to Strange and Norrell. |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 8/24/2007 3:06 AM | I really enjoyed book 1, and am experiencing the same about a quarter of the way into book 2 thus far. Novak, at least in book 1, did a smashingly thorough job of developing the characters of both human and dragon protagonists. And ditto, utilizing dragons during the Napoleonic wars in the manner in which she does was a nice touch. I certainly hope that Jackson - if he does film the trilogy - does right by the characters, though.
Thing is, her books are - and look like - rather quick reads, not quite what I call weekend reads or popcorn reads, but definitely not as time consuming as Clarke's monster. I am not adverse to gigantic tomes - I love Erikson's and Martin's novels - but that large and that unknown with nothing about it screaming at me to read it was rather turning me off to its purported charms. Hence the question to you, so thank you for the answer.
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Associate Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard |
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 8/24/2007 4:04 AM | | Sure thing Jason, its a biggie alright, but I couldn't put it down. |
| Posted By : Daniel Ausema - 8/24/2007 11:04 AM | If I may jump in, Strange and Norrell is a great book. There's lots of playful humor (somewhat on the cerebral side, as I recall, especially in the footnotes), some fascinating world building, an intriguing use of magic, etc. I'm in less agreement about its structure and pace being accessible--I think those that dislike it do so for this reason. It does not feel like today's fantasies in its pace, so if you go in expecting that, you'll likely be frustrated. It is a much slower read than His Majesty's Dragon, for example...but in the end far more worth it also. So I would also highly recommend it, but just know what you're getting into.
I just read His Majesty's Dragon also. It's a very quick read. I think its strength lies on two things--first, as overdone as dragons often seem to be, she manages to draw on all their cool factor without invoking the backlash of dragons having been done this way before. It's very reminiscent of Pern in the connection between rider and dragon, but I think it's that inserting them into the historic milieu just makes it fun. Second, Novak has created some very sympathetic characters. Not in the sense of a lot of fantasy characters that are just so cool (because of weapon skill or whatever), but simply in that the reader really wants Laurence and Temeraire to succeed. They just seem like nice folk, if that makes sense.
Bill, I see you read Justina Robson's Natural History--what were your thoughts on that? I read it a couple of years ago and last year read its sequel (Living Next Door to the God of Love). One of these months I hope to get to her newest, Keeping it Real--looks like that one is very different from the others. But it looks fun.
Twigs and Brambles (my writing blog) |
| Posted By : Bill Ward - 8/24/2007 12:26 PM | Daniel, I thought Natural History was extremely inventive, and that was its strongest aspect for me. Robson's a good writer too, but I did find myself getting a bit bored with parts of the book. Still, I enjoyed it.
And you are correct that Strange & Norrell isn't fast paced; what I'm really trying to convey is that it is a deft balance between Victorian (or pre victorian I suppose, really) rambling and modern speed. I think it brilliantly suggests the feel of the literature of this period, without actually being as slow as Austen or as cumbrous as Dickens. |
| Posted By : Daniel Ausema - 8/24/2007 4:35 PM | Yeah, that's a perfect explanation--it evokes the writing of Victorian novels, but without some of the more frustrating aspects of them.
I loved Natural History for the most part, and yes, it's that inventiveness that really grabbed me. I remember being somewhat disappointed in the ending, but it didn't take away from the things I'd enjoyed early on. I was less enthralled with its sequel--it seemed to me an ambitious gamble with how it was told...but just ended up not working for me. Others whose tastes are often similar to mine have said they loved it, so it could just be me, or what else was going on in my life when I read it or something.
Twigs and Brambles (my writing blog) |
| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 8/25/2007 10:53 AM | Nightlamp, what'd you think of _The Sunset Warrior_? Do you plan on finishing the trilogy?
--Jeff Stehman |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 8/25/2007 3:03 PM |
Jeff Stehman said...Nightlamp, what'd you think of _The Sunset Warrior_? Do you plan on finishing the trilogy?
Jeff - van Lustbader's series is actually 5 books long http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Van_Lustbader I have (and read) the first 4, but book 5 came out in late 1990s, almost 20 years later, and I never read it. I also never read his Pearl Saga, but I love his espionage books - except I will not read the farce of a sequel to the Ludlum Bourne trilogy!
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Associate Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard |
| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 8/25/2007 11:36 PM | I knew there were a least four, but there didn't seem much point reading past three, which makes for a solid conclusion. The only other novels of his I've read are _The Ninja_ and _The Miko_. I enjoyed the first for what it was, but didn't care of the second.
By the way, to the best of my recollection _The Miko_ remains the only novel for which I've seen a TV ad--with actors and everything, and on a network, no less. Now that's marketing.
--Jeff Stehman |
| Posted By : Marius - 8/28/2007 5:22 PM | Jeff Stehman said...
The only other novels of his I've read are _The Ninja_ and _The Miko_
the ninja series is one of my favorites - I have read through it a few times... sunset warrior series as well, except for the last book. Like von Darkmoor I have also avoided the Ludlum (another favorite author) books and although I have the pearl saga lying around somewhere, I have never quite motivated myself to dig into it. I love all his other books and have read all but two it seems - there is a nice bibliography with cover art here --> Eric Van Lustbader ...following a link on that page with his wife's name on it reveals that she has also published a novel - has anyone read it? Reviews over at Amazon seem very good for the most part. |
| Posted By : terry - 9/2/2007 2:59 AM | I've scanned the books read lists everyone has been keeping and now have skimmed this thread as well. The thing that strikes me the most is that I've read so very few of the books listed and none of the very few I've read this year are on the lists...
I will submit my list such as it is tomorrow... I'm inspired by the diversity of the readers here.
"If you confront the universe with good intentions in your heart, it will reflect that and reward your intent. Usually. It just doesn't always do it in the way you expect." Andreas Katsulas (G'kar) 1946-2006
http://www.zteamproductions.com/b5stuff/Andreas.html
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| Posted By : Bill Ward - 9/4/2007 5:17 AM | | Looking forward to seeing it Terry. |
| Posted By : nightlamp - 9/11/2007 3:03 AM | Jeff Stehman said...
Nightlamp, what'd you think of _The Sunset Warrior_? Do you plan on finishing the trilogy?
Hey Jeff,
Sorry for my belated reply; the onset of the new school term has left me with less downtime than I'd like. The Sunset Warrior was a pretty good yarn-- it didn't hook me so much that I had to immediately race out and track down the remainder of the series, but I would like to read the rest eventually.
I just finished The King Beyond the Gate by David Gemmell. I've heard quite a few good reports about the Drenai series, but the two that I've read (Legend being the other) haven't really done anything for me. Am I missing something? |
| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 9/11/2007 9:41 AM | nightlamp said...
I just finished The King Beyond the Gate by David Gemmell. I've heard quite a few good reports about the Drenai series, but the two that I've read (Legend being the other) haven't really done anything for me. Am I missing something?
Those are his first two novels. His writing improves, but if the story in those doesn't grab you, then there's something wro--um, then they're probably not your thing. Gemmell's main themes--redemption being the big one--don't change much from novel to novel.
I think two is enough to give you a taste for it, but if you want to keep trying, I'm not sure what to recommend. The two followups to Legend are really one long story. The second two Waylander books are two of my favorites, but I thought the first, _Waylander_, was a little weak.
--Jeff Stehman |
| Posted By : von Darkmoor - 9/11/2007 10:42 AM | nightlamp -
I, too, was about to say that if these two Gemmell books didn't work for you, I'm not sure which ones would. Yes, his writing does improve, but his storytelling and character(s) are the same = simply stellar! This is heroic tragic figure character writing at some of its most enjoyable and I am somewhat saddened that it doesn't work for you.
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Associate Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard |
| Posted By : Brandon - 9/21/2007 2:11 AM | | The Imago Sequence by Laird Barron. Just chanced on it one day, and I am blown away. This is just what I love.
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| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 9/21/2007 9:14 AM | Brandon, are you talking about the collection, the novella, or both? I believe GVG said the novella was one of the most highly praised stories of 2005. Except for the last few paragraphs, I hated it. The characters meant nothing to me, and while I can appreciate where he was going, it wasn't worth getting there. It was a waste of my time to read it. "Hallucigenia," on the other hand, I enjoyed. Barron said that people fall pretty evenly into the loved-it/hated-it camps, and that's common for his stories.
--Jeff Stehman |
| Posted By : Brandon - 9/21/2007 7:30 PM |
Jeff Stehman said...Brandon, are you talking about the collection, the novella, or both? I believe GVG said the novella was one of the most highly praised stories of 2005. Except for the last few paragraphs, I hated it. The characters meant nothing to me, and while I can appreciate where he was going, it wasn't worth getting there. It was a waste of my time to read it. "Hallucigenia," on the other hand, I enjoyed. Barron said that people fall pretty evenly into the loved-it/hated-it camps, and that's common for his stories.
The collection. I actually only read the first few stories. The Procession of the Black Sloth sold me. But that's as far as I've made it. Haven't made it to the actual tale called the Imago Sequence yet. But thanks for the heads up. I'll read with a cautious eye.
don't forget to visit: http://www.bloodredtales.com |
| Posted By : ScrewMoonshine - 10/13/2007 12:08 PM | Hey Daniel, I just spied this on your reading list:
Salt of the Air (collection) by Vera Nazerian
I didn't know Nazerian had a collection out. Is it any good? What sorts of stories are they?
Robert Orme
Out now:
"On the Tree Top" in Ultraverse vol.3 #5 (www.ultraverse.us)
"The Scab, the Man, and the I.V." in Mount Zion Speculative Fiction Review #3 (www.mountzionpress.com)
Coming soon:
"Time in a Capsule" in Unparalleled Journeys II (www.journeybookspublishing.com/)
"Replacing Someone" in Aoife's Kiss #26, September 2008 (http://samsdotpublishing.com/aoife/main.htm)
"More Than One Way to Protect" in Lords of Justice (www.carnifexpress.net/blogs/) |
| Posted By : Brandon - 10/13/2007 9:53 PM | Hmm. Finished the Imago Sequence a while back, and I see what you mean, Jeff, about the characters. I found myself wanting to finish it so I could get to the next book. I liked the stories, though. The mood was good, but there was something stale about it, about the characters, like they had no souls. Maybe that was Laird's point, but I needed some color.
don't forget to visit: http://www.bloodredtales.com |
| Posted By : Jeff Stehman - 10/13/2007 10:26 PM | Again I have to ask, are you talking about the story or the collection?
I could connect with the characters in "Hallucigenia," which is one reason I liked it. (Another being the Cthulhu-like monsters/madness to be found in mathematics.) In particular, I liked the driver--especially at the very end of the story.
--Jeff Stehman |
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