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| Posted By : ScrewMoonshine - 4/19/2008 2:04 PM | I'm writing a fantasy story set in a world that is basically comparable to medieval Europe. There are some societal differences, but the technology level is almost identical. My two protagonists are having a baby(and yes, it's a girl).
This makes a little question that has always bothered me particularly pertinent: Before there were diapers, how did people deal with the fact that infants will do their business anytime, anywhere?
Any info you medieval experts can give on that, or any other important matters of baby care, would be much appreciated.
Robert Orme
Out now:
"Time in a Capsule" in Unparalleled Journeys II (www.journeybookspublishing.com/)
"On the Tree Top" in Ultraverse vol.3 #5 (www.ultraverse.us)
"The Scab, the Man, and the I.V." in Mount Zion Speculative Fiction Review #3 (www.mountzionpress.com)
Coming soon:
"Replacing Someone" in Aoife's Kiss #26, September 2008 (http://samsdotpublishing.com/aoife/main.htm)
"More Than One Way to Protect" in Lords of Justice (www.carnifexpress.net/blogs/) |
| Posted By : southernweirdo - 4/19/2008 5:06 PM | Here's a link: http://www.octavia.net/9thclife/Clothing.htm -- I'm not sure how reliable this source is, but it has the basic information you are looking for.
An excerpt:
"Newborns were closely swaddled and diapered in surprisingly modern appearing cloths (the square of cloth that forms the folded diaper must surely be the most unchanging article of human apparel, being thousands of years old, and the classic nappy still has not been totally supplanted by its machine-shaped disposable substitute)."
Hope this helps!
Southern Fried Weirdness |
| Posted By : Rob Mancebo - 4/20/2008 11:56 AM |
ScrewMoonshine said...
This makes a little question that has always bothered me particularly pertinent: Before there were diapers, how did people deal with the fact that infants will do their business anytime, anywhere?
Any info you medieval experts can give on that, or any other important matters of baby care, would be much appreciated.
Robert Orme
- I can give you a 2,000 year old refrence. 'And they wrapped the babe in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger for there was no room at the inn.'
- Most 'non-disposible' cultures even today either let the young children walk around naked or have the old, drafty, poop-chute in their britches. (watch where you walk!)
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| Posted By : ScrewMoonshine - 4/20/2008 1:32 PM | erazmus said...
What weirdness said.
I had to laugh at your question. Before there were diapers, we lived in caves and under the eves of fallen trees and seldom wore even so much as a squirrel hide. Its almost the first piece of clothing invented.
But surely it wasn't economic in those days to dispose of an article of clothing every time a baby relieves himself? That's what I'm asking.
(I'm sure for many people in the world it still isn't economic, but I actually wonder about how those people do it too.)
Robert Orme
Out now:
"More Than One Way to Protect" in Lords of Justice (www.carnifexpress.net/)
"Time in a Capsule" in Unparalleled Journeys II (www.journeybookspublishing.com/)
"On the Tree Top" in Ultraverse vol.3 #5 (www.ultraverse.us)
"The Scab, the Man, and the I.V." in Mount Zion Speculative Fiction Review #3 (www.mountzionpress.com)
Coming soon:
"Replacing Someone" in Aoife's Kiss #26, September 2008 (http://samsdotpublishing.com/aoife/main.htm) |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 4/20/2008 1:41 PM | Rob Mancebo said...
'And they wrapped the babe in swaddling clothes
Swaddling Clothes aren't diapers. You swaddle an infant (and we still do this today, btw. Did this with all 4 of my kids.) with a snuggly wrapped blanket/strip of cloth. It cuddles the infant and gives him a feeling of security, keeps them from fussing. |
| Posted By : BethS - 4/20/2008 2:19 PM |
ScrewMoonshine said...
But surely it wasn't economic in those days to dispose of an article of clothing every time a baby relieves himself? That's what I'm asking. (I'm sure for many people in the world it still isn't economic, but I actually wonder about how those people do it too.) Robert Orme
They didn't dispose of it -- they washed it and reused it.
~Beth |
| Posted By : C.L. - 4/20/2008 5:16 PM | Yeah, what Beth said. Or the servants would wash it. 
Icon and Art by Selina Fenech www.selinafenech.com |
| Posted By : Rob Mancebo - 4/21/2008 1:57 AM |
crystalwizard said...
Rob Mancebo said...
'And they wrapped the babe in swaddling clothes Swaddling Clothes aren't diapers. You swaddle an infant (and we still do this today, btw. Did this with all 4 of my kids.) with a snuggly wrapped blanket/strip of cloth. It cuddles the infant and gives him a feeling of security, keeps them from fussing. - Well, I gave this one a quick look-up on-line and the first thing I found was this:
From 'the history of diapers'/ ancient times:>>
> >
Parents of babies who lived during these times had to get creative and use what was available. Babies of ancient times may have used Milkweed leaf wraps, animal skins, and other natural resources. Babies were “wrapped in swaddling bands” in many European societies where strips of linen or wool were wrapped tightly around each limb and then crosswise around the body (see picture). >>
What was all the rage: >>
Seal Skin, rabbit skin, milkweed leaves, swaddling bands.
If you have a baby all wrapped up, why would you need diapers? (Speaking from the standpoint of stone/bronze/iron-age folks who don't have deoderant, and pee in the corner of the room anyway(standard practice in dirt-floor dwellings, no exaggeration.) You just wash the wrappings when soiled. Everyone smelled bad anyway.
As has been pointed out, clothing items would not be tossed, but washed. The making of cloth was generally done at home and was a tremendous expense until the 19th century. Clothing items were re-used untill they were trash.
Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore www.geocities.com/robmancebo/
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| Posted By : Keralen - 4/21/2008 9:46 AM | So, does anyone want to go into the *other* problem with girls in pre-modern times? In my grandmother's day, she used "rags" and washed them. I could never figure out how they kept them in place.
And I always wondered about the brass bra crowd (fictional or real). PMS in armor must be murder. (I suppose literally...) |
| Posted By : Rob Mancebo - 4/21/2008 11:09 AM |
crystalwizard said...
Someone actually complied a history of diapers? Someone had way too much time on their hands!
I'm having the hardest time visualizing trying to wrap a baby in milkweed leaves *snicker*
- Better them than me! I'd probably grab the wrong leaves, like poisoned oak or stinging nettles . . . 
Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore www.geocities.com/robmancebo/
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| Posted By : Rob Mancebo - 4/21/2008 11:15 AM |
Keralen said...
So, does anyone want to go into the *other* problem with girls in pre-modern times? In my grandmother's day, she used "rags" and washed them. I could never figure out how they kept them in place.
And I always wondered about the brass bra crowd (fictional or real). PMS in armor must be murder. (I suppose literally...)
- I expect it was the same. Just wrap them like a diaper or hold them in-place with another undergarment. It was actually good of your grandmother to even tell you about that since women didn't seem to discuss those things even to other women. A girl might only get a quick, vague, lecture about a 'female secret' by her mother and then she was on her own.
Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore www.geocities.com/robmancebo/
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| Posted By : anna - 4/21/2008 12:42 PM | My grandmother told me about having to wash out rags too. They made them from old bed sheets. And there was a company that made little elastic belts with metal clips to hold things in place. Sort of like a garter belt only not for hosiery....
While none of us often think of our ancestors in any "personal" matters, didn't you ever wonder where the euphemism "on the rag" came from?
;)
And count me in amongst those who used cloth diapers -- at least at home. Disposables were more convenient when out. |
| Posted By : SilviaMG - 4/24/2008 8:27 PM | "But surely it wasn't economic in those days to dispose of an article of clothing every time a baby relieves himself? That's what I'm asking.
(I'm sure for many people in the world it still isn't economic, but I actually wonder about how those people do it too.)"
Now you know how fun it was to be a housewife a couple of centuries ago. Doing the laundry was a huge chore. You would boil the undergarments and then put them to dry. There wasn't any fancy soap either. You made your own soap and your hand would get raw, red and cracked from all the hard work. I remember my great-grandmother would do the laundry and not let me do any washing because she wanted me to keep my "fine, soft hands ... like a princess." When she was a young girl in the early 1900s it was a source of pride to have a such hands. It was a social status mark and even with a washing machine she hand washed many garments and wouldn't let me help her. |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 4/24/2008 8:44 PM | It's not really economical today to do that either. Cloth diapers are washed and used till they fall apart then used as rags. Or mended and continued to be used. Exactly the same way as you wash your shirts, pants, socks and everything else. And you don't need a washingmachine and dryer to wash clothing with either.
It might come as a huge surprise to many people reading this thread, but there are still plenty of people that wash their clothes by boiling them and hanging them up to dry. I've done that on quite a few occasions myself. I've also washed them in a river 'cause that's the only water source I had and hung them over bushes to dry. You do what you have to. |
| Posted By : MysticWino - 4/25/2008 12:54 PM | Okay, sort of a tangent here . . .
Laundry and housework is extremely rough on your hands - if you do it right, or even pretty much if you just do it. So . . . how did earlier civilizations soften their skin and prevent/treat callouses? What did they use on cracked skin? Couldn't very well run down to 7/11 and grab a bottle of Cornhuskers . . . What homeopathic cures?
I think I'll copy this on its own as well. I need something for a climber to use on her hands and feet.
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| Posted By : SilviaMG - 4/25/2008 12:57 PM | | Mmm...it depends on the culture. Aloe can be applied to relieve skin discomfort. I think everyone would have their little home-made remedy or buy it from the local apothecary/medicine person. But for many people I don't think they would have bothered with it. They would have taken bad skin as one of the things that came with the job, so to speak. :) |
| Posted By : SilviaMG - 4/25/2008 2:22 PM | | Animal fat mixed with ashes. I did a story on soap-making a long, long time ago. (The things you learn when you are a journalist) |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 4/25/2008 11:46 PM | MysticWino said...
What is it you mix with rendered fat to make soap?
Seems to be a lot of agreement that rendered fat is a good moisturizer. So what is it you put in it to turn it to the dark side?
Here's a very instructive page if you feel like a bit more research.
Or you just happen to be broke and need to make some:
waltonfeed.com/old/soap/soapold.html |
| Posted By : ScrewMoonshine - 4/26/2008 1:11 PM | Thank you all for the info. It is helpful indeed.
Robert Orme
Out now:
"More Than One Way to Protect" in Lords of Justice (www.carnifexpress.net/)
"Time in a Capsule" in Unparalleled Journeys II (www.journeybookspublishing.com/)
"On the Tree Top" in Ultraverse vol.3 #5 (www.ultraverse.us)
"The Scab, the Man, and the I.V." in Mount Zion Speculative Fiction Review #3 (www.mountzionpress.com)
Coming soon:
"Replacing Someone" in Aoife's Kiss #26, September 2008 (http://samsdotpublishing.com/aoife/main.htm) |
| Posted By : crystalwizard - 4/26/2008 2:02 PM | Firlefanz said...Calendula is an ingredient for making a salve for cracked skin. You'd mix it into some animal fat - of course, that's wasteful unless it's some kind of fat that tastes so ugly you wouldn't want to eat it. Calendula at Wikipedia
I mix it with bee's wax. It's also a very pretty flower for the garden. Large plant. |
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