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| Posted By : Keralen - 4/18/2008 10:17 AM | |
Another thread made me think of this. I've invented a sword for my created society (circum-Mediterranean, Arab/Greek-ish, socially advanced/cultured but not industrialized, violent, semi-feudal) and you blade connoisseurs can tell me if it's ridiculous. It's called a marais: back-curved, one edge sharp at the hilt end but both edges at the point. Like a scimitar or kilij, but there's an extra projecting flat hook (in the same plane as the blade), also sharpened on both edges, that splits off a few inches back from the tip. You can slash with it, fore and back, and also use the hook to engage your opponent's blade to try to twist it out of his hand (or yank his ribs out..). The hilt has finger grips to hold onto. Obviously it takes great skill not to get it stuck in a wound, but that's why the hook is sharpened. Sorry, I can't draw it! Does this sound like anything that's already been invented? Do you think it would work?
How many of you all have invented special weapons for your stories? |
| Posted By : cussedness - 4/18/2008 9:25 PM | It sounds like some of the early versions of the sabre. The point has an edge and a back edge. Several types of swords and knives have them. That back edge is part of what made the Bowie Knife such and awesome weapon.
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| Posted By : Jaqhama - 4/18/2008 11:22 PM | With a hook on the end, shapened or not it's still going to get stuck on bones in the body.
A rising thrust through the stomach would probably see it getting caught on the rib cage. Same for a thrust through the centre of the chest, in fact the hook may even prevent the blade being thrust through the body if it catches on a bone(s) on the way in.
If there's no hurry to pull the weapon back out that's not a problem. If you're in the middle of a pitched battle or a duel involving more than one assailant you won't want to be struggling to remove your sword/knife from the person you've just stabbed it through.
Special weapons for stories? No.
I've invented/made special weapons at home for myself or people I know in various forms of work where they are likely to come into contact with 'undesirable elements.'
Like the ASP expandable batons, with a blade on the end instead of the last six inches of rounded metal.
A christian cross that's actually a fold out lock knife.
A small key chain that is really a small morning star. (Be careful how you put that in your trouser pocket! LOL. Actually had a leather holster to carry it in.)
Knives with butt spikes added. (Military personel only)
Different kinds of throwing stars/spikes.
Good to keep busy.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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| Posted By : Steven the Git - 4/19/2008 9:41 AM | I gave some very nasty creatures of mine a kind of sword/machete which V ed at the end, so the blade bent back down into a kind of hook. For them they'd much rather kill horrifically and with lots of pain than just kill, and were strong enough that pulling them out of someone's ribcage would be exactly what they wanted.
A number of times I've done a variation of normal weaponry. Pole arms are a good one, you can stick nasty things on each end, and once gave a character cleaver-like knuckle dusters.
“Hello, I am William Burton, Head of Recruitment and Integration for the Agency for Peaceful Regulation and Definitive Cooperation of Extraordinary Existence.”
spinetinglers.co.uk Bakemono will not stop! |
| Posted By : Rob Mancebo - 4/19/2008 12:03 PM |
Keralen said...
Another thread made me think of this. I've invented a sword for my created society (circum-Mediterranean, Arab/Greek-ish, socially advanced/cultured but not industrialized, violent, semi-feudal) and you blade connoisseurs can tell me if it's ridiculous. It's called a marais: back-curved, one edge sharp at the hilt end but both edges at the point. Like a scimitar or kilij, but there's an extra projecting flat hook (in the same plane as the blade), also sharpened on both edges, that splits off a few inches back from the tip. You can slash with it, fore and back, and also use the hook to engage your opponent's blade to try to twist it out of his hand (or yank his ribs out..). The hilt has finger grips to hold onto. Obviously it takes great skill not to get it stuck in a wound, but that's why the hook is sharpened. Sorry, I can't draw it! Does this sound like anything that's already been invented? Do you think it would work?
How many of you all have invented special weapons for your stories?
Yes this is a viable, believeable weapon. Compaired to some of the screwy, African tribal knives it is rather tame. However it should be stressed as only a slashing weapon because that hook would certainly lodge in something if used to thrust. That is not a problem as there are many peoples who have historically used only the slash. There were periods when the Celts had almost flat-tipped slashing swords, Germanic Landsknechte used powerful slashes to cause the most damage in a 'press-of-pikers'. Early Arabic shamshirs would often have a 'tail', an extra tip--sometimes very thin--making them purely a slashing sword (otherwise they'd be poking someone with a fork  )
Normally these odd looking knives are made in such a limiting fashion due to cultural or religious reasons.
Answer the why, and you can have them use anything you want.
Rob
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| Posted By : RHFay - 4/19/2008 1:23 PM |
Best advice I can give regarding workable fantasy weapons - study historical weapons. If you want to know if a certain style is feasible, take a look at the variety of weapons produced by a variety of cultures. The African throwing knives have already been mentioned. I've seen a photo of a double-edged knife from the Upper Congo that's forked and curved in opposite directions at it's tip. Then there are all sorts of interesting (and rather unusual to "Western" eyes") weapons from Asia. A sword from a temple of the Nayar people has a double-edged blade that's straight for perhaps it's first two-thirds, and curved into a crescent shape for the last third. I imagine the shape could have had some religious or ritualistic significance.
There are actually some "weird" examples from ancient Europe as well. There's a curved, single-edged bronze short-sword from Sweden, dated circa 1600-1350 BC, that curls up at the end to form a kind of hook.
My one concern with the blade you described - the extra weight of a hook separate from the actual blade tip may throw off the balance of the weapon. It may make it slightly tip-heavy as compared to a similar wepaon without the hook. This could lead to the weapon being slightly slower compared to one without the hook - which could prove fatal. I suppose allowances could be made in other parts of the blade, but I'm not sure the hook would be that beneficial.
Swords were tools designed to kill, and like all tools balance and handling characteristics were important considerations. I'm not sure if a hook like you described would be overly useful.
As for a sword with hooks on it being dangerous to the user - I doubt it. Many of the specialized two-handers of Renassaince Europe had lugs at the end of a long ricasso. These would be even closer to the user than a hook at the tip, and I've never really heard of the lugs being dangerous to the user.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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| Posted By : Keralen - 4/21/2008 8:59 AM | Thanks all. Rob, it's a tradition-bound society, especially among the upper class. The equivalent of the Greek gymnasium is a central gathering place for young noblemen showing off. They arm their slaves with these things too, which spells big trouble for my straight-bladed Norse who have never met this tricksy kind of fighting. My hero, OTOH, has spent some time in the gymnasiums and has a chance.
R.H. - I think they allow for the weight of the hook in designing the blade. I'm presuming this warlike culture has very refined armourers. Cool information, thanks! |
| Posted By : Hermit - 4/21/2008 1:01 PM | Great topic!
I've basically just renamed weapons. In my Kumari Vale trilogy, the weapons are pretty much standard medieval. In the back-story tales, they use specialized weapons with custom blades. Their short sword is the length of the owner's forearm from middle fingertip to elbow. Longsword is length of the arm. They also have a couple different spears, including one that is the height of the owner's chin and is used for dueling instead of throwing. There's another version which is a dual javelin; one part is specifically for throwing, and the other is balanced for either throwing or melee. Slave women use a braided whip with slivers of metal braided in and pointed with a dual-edge knife point.
Other than that, I use various types of bows. And a crossbow that works on a coil instead of a bow - because it is used by dragonriders, and the motion of the dragons' wings disallows for a regular bow or crossbow.
As far as wicked steel, you really don't have to go too far back for some serious hurt. Check out some of the bayonets and blades used in WWI. I ran into a Polish one at a gunshow a few years back that had scissored serrations on the verse of the blade, which was about half an inch thick, inch-and-a-half wide, and maybe sixteen or seventeen inches long. Needless to say, it would have been illegal to use after the Geneva Con.
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