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| SFReader Forums > Writing > Gripe! > stealing ideas... | Forum Quick Jump
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RHFay
Sage
      
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1573
| Posted 5/6/2008 8:17 PM (GMT -4) |   | |
I have recently found out that there is definitely a dark side to participation in certain on-line fora supposedly dedicated to the writing of speculative fiction. Not only did I run into some rather toxic criticism and negative opinions regarding electronic publications, I also encountered a possible potential incident of idea theft.
During the course of a discussion about a fantasy cinquain, and the possible failings of said poem, one member came up with his own cinquain based on the same exact idea. The words were changed, but the theme and subject remained the same. He then asked about places he could possibly submit said poem, among others.
Now, I know full well that there is nothing illegal, or even necessarily wrong, in such an action, but I think it may be in seriously bad taste. It's possibly poor writer's/poet's etiquette, if nothing else.
Basically, I felt like I should have said to the guy "get your own ideas". I'm influenced by others, I may borrow from others, but I try not to write based completely on someone else's story unless it's a "new twist" on folklore, myths, or legends.
Anyway, I've posted the cinquain, along with a couple others, on my blogs and a forum or two. I figure I would get my poem about that theme out there first, just because.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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Lyn
Adopt
Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 1278
| Posted 5/7/2008 12:24 AM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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RHFay
Sage
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1573
| Posted 5/7/2008 12:40 AM (GMT -4) | | I can't imagine anyone here ever pulling such a stunt. Even if what he said was supposed to have been said in jest or just to get my goat (hard to tell on-line sometimes), it was in poor taste. And from what I've been told elsewhere, such "idea thievery" can happen, so maybe he was serious.
Well, I can't remove my poem from that particular forum because my account was apparently deactivated. I guess when I told the admin that I didn't care if he blocked me, he took it to heart. So, I have posted my original cinquain on my blogs, here on the SFReader forum, and on my web site. I've also posted an entry about this situation on my blogs. I don't know what else I could or should do. I've probably done enough.
It would be interesting to see the reply he gets if he does try to send the poem in to editors I may know, ones that may just see my blogs or forum posts. I've been networking like mad recently.
Yes, I can see it now: "Hmm...a cinquain about bones being thrown and foretelling a defeat, or similar bad martial outcome. Didn't we see almost the same concept, done in a similar format, before? Oh yeah, but it wasn't done by this guy!"
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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RHFay
Sage
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1573
| Posted 5/7/2008 1:42 AM (GMT -4) | |
Wow! You were blocked? What the heck did you do?
I swaggered like an arrogant a**, blustered like a bombastic egomaniac, and flamed like a blazing fool. I also had the gall to point out that their little electronic playground wasn't really that important when compared to the wider world of publication. Oh, and I had the nerve to suggest that practical experience might actually mean something, and might just possibly trump certain opinions voiced by certain individual forumites. And I actually had the balls to claim that their criticisms were worthless to me as a poet and writer.
Or to put it simply, I had the audacity to loudly and clearly disagree with their opinions and views regarding the quality of my work and the usefullness of their forum in general.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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RHFay
Sage
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1573
| Posted 5/7/2008 1:59 AM (GMT -4) | | Oh, I forgot one bit. The brown stuff really hit the fan when my thread about these problems that I posted on another forum was highjacked by the admin from the forum with the potential "idea thief". Perhaps my conduct of cross-posting problems wasn't "good internet etiquette", but neither was high-jacking my thread. It seemed very petty to me, and more the actions of a "troll" than the actions of a reasonable admin. I kind of lost it after that.
Having just peeked at the ongoing comments on the second forum, the one with the highjacked thread, not the one with the idea thief, I can see that the b.s. is still flying thick and fast. Now the member that had originally invited me to join the forum with the potential "idea thief" is trying to claim that they commonly post harsh criticisms of each other's works, and it's all a part of the process of helping each other grow as writers.
Sounds to me more like getting your kicks by trashing other people's works, but maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe there are times when "harsh" criticism is acceptable, and even useful, but there didn't seem to be enough "professionalism" present there to make such behaviour acceptable. It was just a gut feeling I had.
And amazingly enough, few people actually seem to agree with the opinion that started this whole ruckus to begin with. Pardon me if I actually try to listen to more than one opinion regarding the quality of my works.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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Jordan Lapp
ppaL nadroJ
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2534
| Posted 5/7/2008 2:02 AM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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RHFay
Sage
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1573
| Posted 5/7/2008 2:18 AM (GMT -4) | |
Jordan Lapp said...Got a link?
So, Jordan, do you really want to see me at my worst? I guess I'm not really blocked so much as just no longer a member. My account was deactivated, but I can still get on the sites. However, I can't post on at least one of the fora.
If you really want to see me raging, here you go (I warn you, it's not pretty):
(Note something especially interesting about the criticisms of my horrorku - they weren't posted until a full two months after I originally posted the poetry, and only appeared after I mentioned the fact that the poems might appear in my forthcoming collection. Right away that made me suspicious of the true intent of the comments.)
(Gotta love this one, the cinquain that the same forumite claimed is all tell, no show, is Mystic Wino's favourite! That must be some odd form of poetic justice.)
(The cross-over thread and the subsequent comments that really made me go ballistic. This was the last straw, as it were.)
Maybe I overreacted, maybe I misinterpretted certain things, I don't know, and I don't really care. I got tired of those fora, and the headaches they caused me.
I think some of the forumites are a bit delusional about the importance of their little electronic hang-outs. I never really got much out of them, besides some self-promotion. And I had to take care when doing that, because they technically frowned upon it.
I wrote poetry, submitted poetry, and had poetry published before ever signing up on those fora.
Gee, if you buy into what those people are saying about me, I must be an unbelievably arrogant a##hole.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva
Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1570
| Posted 5/7/2008 12:28 PM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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HTKuehl
Kaylee is watching you
Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 537
| Posted 5/8/2008 9:01 AM (GMT -4) | | And people wonder why I'm always wary about joining forums.....
"Learn to paint pictures with words." ~ Brian Jacques
"I never considered that I wouldn't make it. Ignorance is bliss sometimes. If I had known how hard it would be, I might have given up." ~ Kim Harrison
------------------------
Forthcoming:
"Raising the Dead." Bewildering Stories: Issue 288, May 5, 2008.
"To Have and to Hold." Flashshot, May 10, 2008.
"Fire and Brimstone." Every Day Fiction, May 16, 2008.
"The Final Goodbye." Ruins Metropolis. Hadley Rille Books, 2008.
"Dalamar's Quest." Flashing Swords, February 2009.
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RHFay
Sage
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1573
| Posted 5/8/2008 9:21 PM (GMT -4) | |
Steven the Git said...The comment about feeling sorry for your kids because they are home schooled was particularly shitty.
Oh, I didn't see that one. Yep, quality people there, alright.
In case anyone is interested, my daughter has already taken three college courses. She got an A in French I. As of the midterm grades, she was getting an A in both French II and Comp I. She was also in the college theatre club production of Macbeth, and got rave reviews for her performance as Young MacDuff (she loves Shakespeare). And, she starts college full-time in the fall. That's pretty darn impressive for a fifteen year old!
Also, since we have to have some sort of recognised evaluation to report to the school district, my daughter had taken the 11-12th grade level CAT test. She scored in the 99 percentile overall.
My daughter's participation in the theatre club, and previous stints in theatre classes and skating lessons show have shown that she can socialise just as well as a public school student. She was often the one the instructors relied on to help out. Her grades and performance in college show she's getting a decent education.
I think that all speaks for itself, don't you?
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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RoberII
Stablehand
Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 17
| Posted 5/8/2008 10:54 PM (GMT -4) | | Hello, RoberII here.
I'm sorry, but I found this forum through RHFays livejournal, and I felt I had to chime in. I take this accusation of plagiarism very seriously.
First of all, I never intended to submit that poem to anything. My exact words were "These are fun, where can I submit them?"
Second of all, my critique was harsh and fair. You may agree with it or you may not, but I would like to point out that I consistently contrasted and compared your two poems, finding one to be very good and the other one boring and poorly written. I hope this clears me of your jealousy charge. I actually really liked your moonlight sacrifice poem. It was good writing, regardless of whether it fit the haiku definition. You received the exact same treatment anyone else would have received: A quick glance through our submissions will confirm this. We do not coddle people.
(Such a glance now requires membership - non-members should not be able to read them due to first print rights.)
Now, I had given RHFay the critique he had explicitly asked for. But RHFay reacted with snide contempt, however, not just for me, but for the entire forum. Our opinions were worthless simply due to the fact that we were not published. We lived in our own little electronic world, blind to the outside world of.. Electronic magazines. My suggestion that he take a look at my practical experience and read my actal writing was met with the phrase "poetry posted on some little forum does not impress me at all" (from memory) - regardless of the craftsmanship of those poems or short stories.
The fact that you are now unwelcome on two fora, not just one, should make you think twice about your actions. And speculative vision is not some tiny little unknown forum, either, but was mentioned by Reader's Digest as one of the best resources out there for writers. But although RD reccommends it, it's not 'professional' enough for RHFay.
(For those interested, the 'hijacked' thread is here - notice how RHFay is the first one to bring it off topic, while The Master apologizes and tries to keep the discussion calm.)
http://speculativevision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3026
However, I and the forum in general, is ashamed of what happened in the aftermath of all this. The comments about his children are below the usual standards of our forum, I can assure you. They were not aimed at homeschooling so much as the silly costumes RHFay is seen in on his homepage, as well as the fact that we had just been witness to some of the most absurd behaviour we had ever experienced on the forum. Nevertheless, I apologize to you for those comments, Richard.
Regards, Bob.
PS. I did not just come here to start a flame war. This looks to be a good writing community, and I would like to join - I hope the above civility is testament to this. | | Back to Top | | |
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