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| SFReader Forums > Writing > Gripe! > Actually this is a reverse kind of Brag! | Forum Quick Jump
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Jaqhama
Adventurer
      
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 464
| Posted 4/23/2008 4:55 PM (GMT -4) |   |
Jordan Lapp said...
Jaqhama said...
What I have noticed in the non-fiction market is that editors are much more open to debate I think it's a matter of supply and demand. Although I'm not an expert, I believe that writers for motorcycling magazines who are both educated and eloquent enough to write professionally are far rarer than writers of fiction, and therefore are entitled to a bit more "coddling". Writers of fiction are a dime--no a half-penny--a dozen. A market doesn't suffer in the slightest from banning one author when they have thousands to choose from.
Are you suggesting that the majority of motorcyclists are not well educated or eloquent?
Many bikers are the CEO's of international companies (as an example) Like car drivers, today's bikers come from all walks of life and all social systems.
I don't expect the market does suffer Jordan...you miss the point.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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erazmus
Master
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 4503
| Posted 4/23/2008 5:13 PM (GMT -4) | | Well, but he didn't get the editor, did he?
He got the EA, a fine fellow who, as he says, couldn't change things if he wanted. I don't doubt the editor, Shawna McCarthy, gets this all the time anyway. Besides editing RoF, she's also an agent (represents Eric Flint among others, who edits Baen's Universe and only takes e-subs). She doesn't live in a bubble, and as she has held fast to H/C subs for her magazine over the years, she must have reasons. The current method works for her, end of story.
Either method seems to result in more than enough quality subs to maintain a publishing schedual, at pro rates anyway. As has been pointed out, fiction writers are not in short supply, unfortunatly.
Mike
Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm
"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
"Pink Plastic Flamingos" in Big Pulp
www.bigpulp.com/m.html
"Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html
"Morning Coffee" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/
"The Jewel Below" in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm
"Happy Landings" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/
"Teller of Tales" in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/
Read "Silver Shells" In Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/silver-shells-by-michael-d-turner/ | | Back to Top | | |
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RHFay
Sage
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1717
| Posted 4/23/2008 5:15 PM (GMT -4) | |
Jaqhama said...
This seems especially prevelent in fictional writing circles. Possibly even more so in sci-fi and fanatsy, though why this should be I'm not sure.
Intelligentsia egos gone beserk? Intellectual elitists thumbing their noses at the masses? A deep, dark conspiracy by the illuminati? Or perhaps simple pig-headedness?  I dunno.  (Trying to be funny. Probably not really succeeding, but trying anyway.)
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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David de Beer
Neophyte
Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 158
| Posted 4/23/2008 7:27 PM (GMT -4) | | | What I would have done is find a buddy in the US willing to help me out by printing and mailing my US postal submissions from his US addy in return for compensation of his/her expenses
yes, this is what I did. It costs a lot,but less than if I had to mail it myself, and here is one way to use the internet to good effect in the matter of snail mail only submissions (and making overseas friends to begin with).
I don't do it often, though, for obvious reasons.
Re: readerships - I'll have to dig up my YB by Dozois, but he posted the numbers in there. ROF and Analong has the highest circulation numbers, both over 15k I think, with Asimovs close, and F&SF thereabouts.
Clarkesworld gets about 5k hits per month, more or less, and Fantasy magazine is also roughly 3k or so. Sean Wallace does regular breakdowns on his blog.
Strange Horizons don't count their hits, says they can't make much of the numbers. Chizine has a mailing list of about 1800 people, and they work on the conservative estimate of about 300 readers per issue (don't ask me where I saw that, cannot remember).
Interzone has about 2k subscribers, I think, Apex Digest close to 450.
JBU - no idea, at least 5k would be my guess.
Point is, the numbers aren't huge, but the big four have significantly higher readerships still. Payment is much higher. So, now and then it's worth going through the schlep of a snail mail and ulcerating about whether the letter will survive across continents.
yes, I would prefer to have all subs be email, but I don't make the rules and while frustrated at times, them's the breaks and we have to adapt to them.
http://david-debeer.com | | Back to Top | | |
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Jordan Lapp
ppaL nadroJ
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2585
| Posted 4/23/2008 7:32 PM (GMT -4) | |
David de Beer said...
What I would have done is find a buddy in the US willing to help me out by printing and mailing my US postal submissions from his US addy in return for compensation of his/her expenses
Clarkesworld gets about 5k hits per month, more or less, and Fantasy magazine is also roughly 3k or so. Just as an addendum, Neil Clarke just posted on EDF that Clarkesworld actually gets close to 8K uniques.
The circulation of the big three is reported by Gardner Dozois in Year's Best every year. Here's last year's stats:
Asimov's: 15117 (Subscription only, no newstand figures).
Analog : 23732 (plus 4587 newsstand)
Fantasy & Science Fiction: 14575 (plus 3691 newstand)
Interzone's monthly circulation is between two and three thousand.
Analog's is still the wide leader. Don't know why RoF doesn't show up, but 15K sounds about right.
And because we're sharing numbers, Every Day Fiction gets 9K (not including subscribers which is another 1K). We're up there with the bigs.
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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SilviaMG
Neophyte
Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 64
| Posted 4/23/2008 9:02 PM (GMT -4) | | | If I recall correctly from Gardner Dozois figures in 2005 RoF had some 16,500 subscribers and about 6,500 in newstands. | | Back to Top | | |
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Jaqhama
Adventurer
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 464
| Posted 4/24/2008 6:31 AM (GMT -4) | |
 Jordan Lapp said...Lol.... Jaqhama, I KNEW you'd make that connection, and I tried to phrase my comment so that you wouldn't.... but the stereotype is so prevalent I don't blame you. I simply meant that the market is smaller because "bikers that write" is a smaller subset of professional writers than the set of "writers of fiction". That "eloquent and educated" was my attempt to not cause offence... but it appears to have had the opposite effect. I'd love to buy a bike myself, but I like in Vancouver, and therefore have like 10 sunny days a year in which to enjoy it. What is the point that I've missed? Editors should be nicer when someone writes an abrasive e-mail?
I knew what you meant Jordan. 
I never take offense on internet forums or in chat rooms. The first rule of either is 'If you can't chill, don't chat.'
A quick change of subject...there are plenty of guys and gals who ride in Vancouver.
You may be surprised.
I recommend the adventure bike forum because I think you will find that the kind of riding they do is more in line with the conditions one might expect in a cooler and damper climate.
The point: I thought their no email subs for international writers is doing those international writers a dis-service...and was prepared to say so.
I'm sure many disagree with the policy but are not prepared to say so because they fear being ostracized by the magazine in question or indeed other SF&F magazines.
As I've already mentioned that doesn't bother me.
I'm impressed Douglas replied to me. Much respect to him for that.
This little castle that some editors have built up for themselves...The 'don't ever argue with the editor' means nothing to me.
Disagreeing and arguing are not perhaps the same thing.
I see on Douglas' blog that he has insinuated one of us may be a jerk...I also see he has produced a list of ten things that he thinks might include my reasons or attitude for questioning the editorial policy.
(And aren't some of the responses insightful?)
You will note that in my original post here I did not even mention whom I had made discourse with.
You will also note I have not insulted or insinuated that Douglas is anything but a person whose editorial policy I disagreed with.
I haven't attacked Douglas personally...just the magazine's intractable no email subs attitude.
I'm sure Douglas is a wonderful chap.
I've had no reason to make insinuations or snide insults regarding him.
The comments on the blog do amuse me however. I like how some have attempted to fit me into a niche that suits their own viewpoints.
I think I'll not write more about this now...I'm sure everyone understands my point of view and the reason I sent my email questioning and deriding the no email subs policy.
If I disagree with another editor/magazine's policy then I'll doubtless say so again.
If people/writers don't speak up when they see something they believe is not right...how will things change in the future?
As an example: There is another popular SSF paper magazine that also states they do not accept email submissions...yet when I emailed them and explained my thoughts...and mentioned emailing a couple of pages for a perusal...with the full paper manuscipt to follow later if they liked the writing...they accepted the idea and were quite happy to so.
Not intractable you see. Open to new suggestions that benefit both the magazine and the writer.
Happy trails: Jaq.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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H.P. Lovesauce
Necronomicondiment
Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 584
| Posted 4/24/2008 9:52 AM (GMT -4) | | <American arrogance>
So what if a magazine is losing out on potential authors from a country that has fewer people than Texas?
If a writer down there really stands out, they'll get published by that SF/F magazine the Aborigines put out, and eventually come to the attention of the big magazines where maybe it can be reprinted.
</American arrogance> | | Back to Top | | |
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Gustavo
Sage
Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1211
| Posted 4/24/2008 11:45 AM (GMT -4) | | As I've pointed out, my living comes not from the writing thing but from the day job, so the difference between a market paying 1 ct / wd vs. 5 isn't really going to make much difference to me. So the markets not accepting email will receive fewer of my subs - I will still send them some, when I get to Argentina (as someone pointed out earlier, the postal system in Mexico is a nightmare of Mexican proportions), but not many.
I'll take Jordan's 1000 subscribers, 9K unique hits and painlless sub process over going to the post office and hoping they have IRCs any day (not to mention the llaag between sub aand response times, etc.).
What those markets (I'm not referring to any in particular) really mean is that they get 99% of the stories they usse from authors they already know - either commissioned or on spec, and only chose a tiny number of stories from the slush, so keeping the really pile down is actually more important than being modern. So why don't they just close the slush altogether? Easy: every single reader they have is either a writer or a potential writer. If they close the open-call subs, they lose their whole audience - and disappear. Might sound cynical, but business is business.
Want to be famous? Write a novel. Short SF is onlly for those who write for pleasure - and in those cases it shouldn't really matter if some of the major markets have strange policies.
Visit my livejournal! http://bondo-ba.livejournal.com/
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Firlefanz
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 1206
| Posted 4/24/2008 5:23 PM (GMT -4) | | Jaqhama, I can relate.
For me, it costs more than 10 Euro to send one manuscript to the US. I managed to lay my hands on some US stamps (thanks, Nathaniel!), otherwise I'd have to add another 2.50 Euro for the IRC. At the current conversion rate, at a guess this is comparable to 15-17 US dollar.
That's why I rarely submit to magazines that insist on paper submissions. It's that simple. Of course, I'm not a stellar author, either, so chances are very low I'd get in, anyway. Right now, I'd rather spend that money playing the lottery -- the odds are probably comparable if Deven's calculation hits near the truth.
*shrugs*
- Call me Firle.
Hannah Steenbock
Mystical Adventures
Sphaira
"Die arische Frau" in Pandaimonion - Die Formel des Lebens
"Der Weg nach Eridani" in Earth Rocks 3/2007 (pdf)
"Minkus, the Masterful Magic-Mender" in - AlienSkin Magazine, Featured Fiction | | Back to Top | | |
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DAWaverly
Quirky Weirdness
Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 259
| Posted 4/25/2008 11:54 AM (GMT -4) | | I really liked that David Cherry cover of an angel in blue jeans from way back in the mid/late 1990's... 
I'd post my reply directly to the blog in question but the owner does not allow OpenID or Anonymous posts, and I am not going to create a LiveJournal account just to reply. Hopefully he is still monitoring over here. It would be a great addition to our forum if he joined SFReader forums and responded directly.
My math was questioned in the latest blog entry by slushmaster Douglas of RoF. Above (in the SFReader Forum post), I reported that slightly more than 17% of automatic passes (through slush) at RoF are rejected. I obtained my numbers via a link provided by Douglas himself--follow the link RHFey provided above, then click on the "stats" link in the slushmaster's post.
First, the data from the slushmaster's stats post:
3) Total # of Automatic Passes: 151
6) Total # of Automatic Passes Accepted for Publication: 26 (uh, oh!! I see the problem!)
Now, the math:
26/151=0.17218
This is slightly over 17% accepted for publication. I got the math correct. The attribution was wrong. :-/
(151-26)/151=0.82781
This is almost an 83% reject rate for automatic passes. Which is still much more desirable than the 99.5% reject rate for non-automatic passes.
I screwed up. My apologies for getting it wrong, and if anyone here has an LJ account, please feel free to post this on the slushmaster's blog post about the 17% being wrong. (Jordan?)
One other thing. Several of the comments to his posts are quite disparaging. It would seem that I and others here are held in animosity without anyone bothering to get to know us. Shame. I am a nice guy, or so I am told.
For the record, I have not yet submitted to RoF only because I have not yet written anything that fits that market. When I do, I will submit. But, then, I have a USA postal address.
I am not likely to submit to Interzone (UK SF magazine) because of similar postal cost reasons. They do however appear to have email submission "windows" from time to time, and they also accept email proposals, which is exactly what Jaqhama was asking RoF about.
- Deven
Blogtide Rising
published
"The Journey" at Every Day Fiction
forthcoming
"An Awakening of Shadows" in The Infinity Swords anthology from Carnivah House
"All That Glitters" at Every Day Fiction | | Back to Top | | |
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RHFay
Sage
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1717
| Posted 4/25/2008 12:00 PM (GMT -4) | |
H.P. Lovesauce said...
Seems like this thread is being watched...
Yes it is, or was anyway. There has been some discussion about this and the issue of authors' replies to rejections on Live Journal. It makes for interesting reading, especially for any up-and-coming writer.
This is a good example of why you should take care what you say in public. Saying something in forums or blogs is saying something in public. Don't assume that only fellow forumites or bloggers are reading what you post. Don't assume no one outside of your group is paying attention, because maybe they are.
This isn't necessarily directed at anyone here specifically (I know Jaqhama has stated that he doesn't care), but just a general observation.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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RHFay
Sage
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1717
| Posted 4/25/2008 12:08 PM (GMT -4) | |
DAWaverly said...
One other thing. Several of the comments to his posts are quite disparaging. It would seem that I and others here are held in animosity without anyone bothering to get to know us. .. That's why first impressions are so important.
That's why acting in a professional manner is so important. (Even if you are doing this as a "hobby" and not as a "profession" is still no excuse to act in any way other than a professional manner. Yes, how you present yourself does matter.)
That's why watching what you say in public is important.
It's very easy to get off on the wrong foot with someone. It's often much harder to then convince them that you are really a "nice guy". It might not be fair, but hey, life's not fair.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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SilviaMG
Neophyte
Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 64
| Posted 4/25/2008 1:07 PM (GMT -4) | | | I went to look at the thread at RoF and they have a poll on submission strategies (do you submit to e-mail markets first? You sub to the best market first, regardless of their submission policies?) so if you have a Livejournal account you may want to vote and leave your comments. | | Back to Top | | |
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