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| SFReader Forums > Writing > Gripe! > Actually this is a reverse kind of Brag! | Forum Quick Jump
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Jaqhama
Adventurer
      
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 733
| Posted 4/23/2008 10:56 AM (GMT -5) |   | I will not, apparently, ever be published in Realms of Fantasy magazine. 
Realms of Fantasy only accept postal manuscript submissions...
I sent an email asking if they would be prepared to read the first ten pages of the novella via email.
(Seeing as how I'm in Oz and it's obviously easier and cheaper for me to do this.)
I said if they liked the first ten pages I'd be happy to submit the entire manuscript via snail mail later.
Got a relpy explaining that they will not accept any email subs at all.
I sent back a reply pointing out that once again here's a magzaine that's happy to utilise the internet for their advertising and subscription payments and their newsletters and their ROF Forum...yet refuses to utilise the internet on behalf of writers, particularly those in overseas countires.
I was quite cutting about it.
I called them 'intractable'.
On their forum they say they only read paper subs.
Once again it's ok for us writers to slave away in front of a computer screen for hours...but heaven forbid that some magazine editors should be forced to read off a computer screen themselves...even ten pages or less worth.
I mean that's just shocking isn't it? Too awful to contemplate?
I then got this reply:
You shouldn't argue with the policies of a magazine's editors, no matter how fussy you think we are. All it does is make us fussier. Case in point, should you decide to send your international submissions via snail-mail at some point in the future, be certain to keep us off your list of potential markets.
And this is what I sent back.
Oh I wasn't arguing...I was merely point out that you guys are quite happy to use the medium of the Internet...as it suits your requirements...but not for any of your potential international writers/submitters.
This 'you shouldn't argue with the editor' line is getting old real fast. It makes no impression on me whatsoever.
It's still a free world (kind of) and if I disagree with a magazine or an editor's view then I'll say so.
I'm not a sheep. Threats of not being published don't bother me in the slightest.
And your assumption that I might at some future point send you a postal manuscript is misguided.
With so many magazines and webzines and publishing houses now accepting email subs...why would I bother to send a paper manuscript to you guys?
That's just not logical.
(Although if you had been prepared to read at least ten pages of my novella via email and liked it...then I would have happily have sent the whole manuscript via normal post...having then been assured that you were interested enough in the story to have me go to the trouble and expense of posting it. I believe that was a very reasonable request...but as I wrote before...intractable.)
Hey...it's your magazine...you reject email subs as you see fit.
I think you will find that as time goes by (and it's happening already) fewer and fewer writers in countries overseas will go to the trouble of sending postal manuscripts to the USA.
A lot of publishing companies have moved with the times...those that don't...well we all know what happened to the dinosaurs don't we?
Thoughts to ponder on for sure.
Cheers: Jaqhama.
Now I expect some of you here at the SF Forum think I can be a real pain in the ass when I want to.
And you're correct.
But if I see something 'wrong' then I'm prepared to stand up and say so.
So the guy's an editor...so what?
I don't live in fear of not being published. (And the threat not to publish a story I might send later via snail mail...gee, talk about predictable. )
It's not like I read; or know anyone else in Sydney who subscribes to ROF anyway. 
I'm not having a shot at all editors here by the way...just the one's who keep harping on about how they won't accept email subs...but use the internet and all that it entails to advertise, promote and sell their magazine in the first place.
Like some of us here and on other forums have said before...if magazine companies aren't prepared to accept email subs as the years go by...one day they're going to wake up and wonder why they aren't are getting that many.
And here's an ironic story for you...my editor at Bikernet is Keith 'Bandit' Ball...he was for many years the editor of the infamous Easyriders magazine...more than ten years ago now Bandit started the online biker lifestyle webzine called Bikernet...many people in the paper magazine publishing industry thought he was crazy...yet today Bikernet is the biggest online Harley/Custom motorcycle webzine on the planet. Bikernet has an admirable list of sponsors and advertisers from all aspects of the motorcycle world and beyond. The webzine gets over a million hits a month and has a list of paid up subscribers in the thousands from all over the world.
Not bad for being 'only' an internet webzine huh?
Bikernet is read by more people, in more countries, than any motorcycle magazine anywhere.
Bandit nicely anticipated, and has continued to do so, the rise of the Internet and its ever growing popularity.
All subs to Bikernet are via email...there is no paper at all.
I always think it strange that a hardcore biker webzine is so up to date, and that so many other 'genre' publishers...including sci-fi magazines that (one would think) would be at the forefront of internet technology..either aren't...or refuse to become so.
It's an odd world.
Cheers: Jaq.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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Jaqhama
Adventurer
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 733
| Posted 4/23/2008 11:41 AM (GMT -5) | |
T A Markitan said...Oooohhh. You made Doug's bad list. Top of the blog today. He's actually a pretty decent guy, at least he was kind enough to answer my ranting questions on the forum once. I always figured their reason for sticking to snail mail was pretty much for the same reasons Darkbow said. But I can sympathize with the cost of submitting a story, mail rates are going up again too. 
Gee, now I'm worried. 
Give us a link to the Blog...I'm interested to see what he says.
He's probably venting the 'I'm the Editor' and how dare some almost unknown writer critise the editorial policy of the magazine?
Yawn.
NOTE: I just read the blog entry. Yeah...mustn't argue with an editor. Confirms what I thought.
More yawning.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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Jaqhama
Adventurer
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 733
| Posted 4/23/2008 12:09 PM (GMT -5) | |
As nice as it feels, it really serves no purpose to write biting e-mails to editors. Writing is a profession--it pays to act professional. Remember, editors are quite often friends with each other. If you get banned at one place, your submissions are likely to receive a chilly reception at other markets.
Jordan I really don't give a toss mate.
I'll say what I want to who I want if I disagree with something.
The fear of not being published by someone because I'm not afraid to speak my mind holds no worries for me at all.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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Jordan Lapp
Ebony & Ivory
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 3293
| Posted 4/23/2008 12:17 PM (GMT -5) | | | Here's a very interesting article by literary agent Nathan Bransford called the No A**hole Rule, which makes some very valid points on why it pays to act professional.
Here's a (longish) quote from the article, but the whole thing makes for great reading:
Nathan Bransford said...
Way back when in simpler times, the book was what mattered. The author may have had to do some events and readings, but for the most part an author's engagement with the public was limited. Word of mouth and reviews drove sales. If a writer wrote a good book but was a pill to deal with, that was basically ok.
Not so much anymore.
Now, via TV, radio, the Internet, lots more travel, etc., the author is face to face with their readership more than ever before and is called upon to generate sales opportunities -- this requires social skills. They are also more closely in touch with people within a publishing organization -- also requiring social skills. And it helps when people want to work with an author because they're an awesome, friendly, professional, hardworking author.
Is a publisher going to decline to publish a great book simply because the author is a jerk and a handful? Probably not. But when those difficult and nebulous decisions are being made in a publishing house, such as who gets what advertising and who is going to be the lead title and a great deal of complex factors are being weighed, put a great personality in the "pro" column for an author.
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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SilviaMG
Acolyte
Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 286
| Posted 4/23/2008 12:19 PM (GMT -5) | | | Although it would be nice if all markets accepted e-mail subs or at least subs from abroad, one can't argue with their policies. I live in Canada and every time I need to sub to the US, to the UK or to Australia it sucks because I have to buy IRCs, postage, etc. I just choose my markets carefully and sub more often to places that to take subs by e-mail.
I also hate it when markets want me to underline a word instead of italicize it (what is this, 1965?) but I do it if I'm interested in getting in that market.
I don't think most major markets are afraid of missing subs because of their submission policies. The pro markets like F&SF, Realms of Fantasy, Analog, The Writers of the Future anthology, do not accept e-mail subs. The exception seem to be the e-zines like Strange Horizons and Clarkesworld, for obvious reasons. | | Back to Top | | |
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Jaqhama
Adventurer
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 733
| Posted 4/23/2008 12:28 PM (GMT -5) | |
Jordan Lapp said...Here's a very interesting article by literary agent Nathan Bransford called the No A**hole Rule, which makes some very valid points on why it pays to act professional.
Here's a (longish) quote from the article, but the whole thing makes for great reading:
Nathan Bransford said...
Way back when in simpler times, the book was what mattered. The author may have had to do some events and readings, but for the most part an author's engagement with the public was limited. Word of mouth and reviews drove sales. If a writer wrote a good book but was a pill to deal with, that was basically ok.
Not so much anymore.
Now, via TV, radio, the Internet, lots more travel, etc., the author is face to face with their readership more than ever before and is called upon to generate sales opportunities -- this requires social skills. They are also more closely in touch with people within a publishing organization -- also requiring social skills. And it helps when people want to work with an author because they're an awesome, friendly, professional, hardworking author.
Is a publisher going to decline to publish a great book simply because the author is a jerk and a handful? Probably not. But when those difficult and nebulous decisions are being made in a publishing house, such as who gets what advertising and who is going to be the lead title and a great deal of complex factors are being weighed, put a great personality in the "pro" column for an author.
I don't do social skills Jordan.
I do honesty and the right to speak my mind.
And this pro writer stuff...more than a million people have read my Bikernet stories and articles...so I reckon I'm already in front of a lot of authors in the world?
You can read some of my stories here: Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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Jaqhama
Adventurer
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 733
| Posted 4/23/2008 12:44 PM (GMT -5) | |
SilviaMG said...
Although it would be nice if all markets accepted e-mail subs or at least subs from abroad, one can't argue with their policies. I live in Canada and every time I need to sub to the US, to the UK or to Australia it sucks because I have to buy IRCs, postage, etc. I just choose my markets carefully and sub more often to places that to take subs by e-mail.
I also hate it when markets want me to underline a word instead of italicize it (what is this, 1965?) but I do it if I'm interested in getting in that market.
I don't think most major markets are afraid of missing subs because of their submission policies. The pro markets like F&SF, Realms of Fantasy, Analog, The Writers of the Future anthology, do not accept e-mail subs. The exception seem to be the e-zines like Strange Horizons and Clarkesworld, for obvious reasons. If you're sending a sub to Oz Silvia just email it to me as an attachment and I'll print it out and send it off to the publisher for you.
No charge.
Unless you've written a 500 page novel...?
You can read some of my stories here: Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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Jaqhama
Adventurer
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 733
| Posted 4/23/2008 12:54 PM (GMT -5) | |
SilviaMG said...
Lol, not a novel. Well picture this: before the glorious days of the Internet ... subbing from Mexico ... where they DON'T sell IRCS. So I had to stock up on stamps when I visited the US or ask my family in Baja to go across the border and please get stamps and send them to me. That was, if I was interested in reaching an English-speaking audiences. All I can say is: thank you, thank you, thank you for e-mails.
Computers are very nice too. Carbon copies are nasty. :)
Yeah...I didn't submit much before the days of the Internet.
Send me a PM if you ever want me to send something off for you.
You can read some of my stories here: Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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erazmus
Master
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 5357
| Posted 4/23/2008 1:26 PM (GMT -5) | | I see Jaqhama's point. It is hard to play in awe of the top markets when the top markets in the field have such . . . embarassingly small readerships. A glance at the responses to the blog will reveal some of the problem. I doubt a sudden stop of all the overseas submissions would actually clear the way for any wanna-be writer's sub-par stories, but they gleefully smack their lips over there now being less competeion.
Of course I wouldn't have handled this in such a confrontational manner. I too am a complete dick-head at times but I do figure places like RoF will catch-up to the world or die, and its not up to me to try to convince them which way to go. What I would have done is find a buddy in the US willing to help me out by printing and mailing my US postal submissions from his US addy in return for compensation of his/her expenses.
But thats just me, I can see why Jaqhama decided to undertake, on behalf of all writers down-under and 'round the world, to argue his point. The whole world isn't blessed, to begin with, with reliable postal service. As Gustavo recently remarked-- Mexico, our nearest neighbor to the south, has a particularly unreliable post-service. As do many regions. Even if your postal service is excellent, the expense is marked, and the return, in todays economy, is shrinking relative to that cost by the day. Writers in Australia, New Zeland, Great Britian, Ireland , South Africa and even Canada are looking at much greater costs to submit and much smaller returns on a sale if they should be so lucky as to make one, as well as a diminished amount of exposure as a result of shrinking distribution.
Is a sale to RoF after say, seven or eight very expensive trys really worth the investment when you can score a sale to say, oh, Weird Tales, for half the pay but with almost no expense involved? It probably is for me, here in Colorado, because the expense will be wiped out by the return, being so much smaller. But with forty, fifty times the expense? Wouldn't be enough left of the check to buy a steak and a brew. The e-sub market's check, though smaller, would have enough left over for at least a hamburger. The exposure factor?
I dunno. The readership has a lot of overlap, and right now RoF certainly has more readers. But enough more? Thats a question every writer would have to answer for themselves.
Mike
Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm
"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
"Pink Plastic Flamingos" in Big Pulp
www.bigpulp.com/m.html
"Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html
"Morning Coffee" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/
"The Jewel Below" in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm
"Happy Landings" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/
"Teller of Tales" in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/
Read "Silver Shells" In Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/silver-shells-by-michael-d-turner/ | | Back to Top | | |
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Jordan Lapp
Ebony & Ivory
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 3293
| Posted 4/23/2008 1:59 PM (GMT -5) | | | Just as a heads up, someone commented on Doug's blog that Jaqhama was complaining here, and Doug asked for the link, so I sent it to him.
From his response:
The Slushmaster said...
I am sympathetic to the plight of international mailings, but I don't make the rules at ROF, nor do I have the power to change them. Holding me accountable gets you nowhere. And for the record, I do prefer to read off the page. Not only is it less tiring on the eyes, but I like the tactile pleasure of turning the page to learn what will happen next. It's a far more engaging experience. Cost aside, I'd think most authors would want editors to consider their work in the manner in which they're the most comfortable Like I said, Doug is a class act, and he offers several valid points.
Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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Jaqhama
Adventurer
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 733
| Posted 4/23/2008 2:47 PM (GMT -5) | |
Jordan Lapp said...
Just as a heads up, someone commented on Doug's blog that Jaqhama was complaining here, and Doug asked for the link, so I sent it to him.
From his response:
The Slushmaster said...
I am sympathetic to the plight of international mailings, but I don't make the rules at ROF, nor do I have the power to change them. Holding me accountable gets you nowhere. And for the record, I do prefer to read off the page. Not only is it less tiring on the eyes, but I like the tactile pleasure of turning the page to learn what will happen next. It's a far more engaging experience. Cost aside, I'd think most authors would want editors to consider their work in the manner in which they're the most comfortable Like I said, Doug is a class act, and he offers several valid points.
Let's be clear on one thing...I have nothing against Douglas at all. We disagee on email submissions is all, and how it will affect magazines and book publishers in the future.
We also disagree on a writer not being able to critique a magazine or an editor.
This seems especially prevelent in fictional writing circles. Possibly even more so in sci-fi and fanatsy, though why this should be I'm not sure.
Myself and some of the editors of bike and military magazines and webzines have argued about stuff back and forth using harsh language and casting aspertions on each other's parentage...but that's never stopped them publishing an article they liked or me from submitting one.
We're all adults...we can handle abuse and give it back. What I have noticed in the non-fiction market is that editors are much more open to debate and ideas and alternative suggestions.
As I said here once before...they could care less about email subs, formatting and the occassional spelling mistake. The italic under-lining and all that crap...they're the editors, they get paid to fix up that stuff if they like the actual content of the article. (Well they probably get some poor underling to do it for them truth to tell.)
I wasn't holding Douglas accountable per se. I actually addressed my orginal email query to Shawna, who is I understand the actual Editor? And she therefore could decide to accept the occassional email submission if she wished yes?
Douglas has pointed out on his blog that I edited my postings here in regards to what he and I discussed...Yes I did...I was trying to keep the post to a reasonable length...I'm quite happy to post up the entire written debate we had if he or anyone requests I do so.
Please feel free to do so.
As I said...I'm not about social skills...I'm about speaking my mind and I certainly wouldn't want Douglas or anyone else to not be able to do so themseleves.
And like I said previously...ROF is their magazine and they are free to accept subs any way they wish.
It doesn't mean I have to like it or that I can't make comment on it.
I myself would not ban someone from submitting to a magazine or a webzine simply because they disgreed with me or editorial policy.
Cheers: Jaq.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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