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| SFReader Forums > Writing > Gripe! > Manuscripts with underlining instead of italics | Forum Quick Jump
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|  crystalwizard Forum Moderator

       Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 4710 | Posted 3/29/2008 11:10 AM (GMT -4) |   | RANT ON
This irritates me.
I know it's the standard, but it still irritates me.
when I accept a story for FS, I specifically ask the author to send me a copy of their manuscript with all special formatting and italics that they wish to use in place.
What do I get?
Manuscripts with underlines.
Which means I'm the one that has to go through and change all those underlines to italics.
It also means I have to guess if the author wanted italics there ir if they, in fact, wanted an underline there.
Which annoys me.
/RANT OFF | | Back to Top | | |
 |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4491 | Posted 3/29/2008 12:20 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  RHFay Sage

       Date Joined Nov 2007 Total Posts : 1700 | Posted 3/29/2008 1:04 PM (GMT -4) |   |
The real problem, at least from the perspective of a contributor, is that the standard isn't really very standard. Each publication seems to follow their own version or modification of the "standard manuscript formatting".
And what about people who were subbing stuff before the days of e-subs? I actually sent a handful of mainstream poems and a fantasy story or two out, with no real success, in the early to mid nineties. They were all sent via "snail mail" back when that was the only real option. (I didn't even have an up-to-date computer back then.) They were all formatted in "standard manuscript formatting", at least as it was laid out in the then-current Writer's Market (or guide, or whatever it was called). Today the desired formatting may be a bit different, especially when it comes to on-line publications or electronic submissions. I've even noticed some subtle differences between what was in my old Writer's Market book, what was in a much more recent edition, and what I've seen posted on-line as the standard manuscript format.
It's actually taken me a bit to adjust to the formatting found on certain on-line publications, and I still have a tendency to do such things as put two spaces after my periods. I've seen at least one on-line publication that wants one space after periods. Underlining instead of italics was indeed the standard for manuscript formatting, but I have seen a change in that. Some editors still want underlining for italics, while others want italics formatted as italics.
The best you can do is state very clearly what formatting you want, especially if it difers from the established standard, and perhaps even give examples of the things that might not be clear. Of course, expect there will be at least some material submitted in a different format than you desire.
And I agree with Mike about guidelines - after you've looked at about a hundred different guidelines, they do all seem to blur together. It gets difficult to keep straight which publication wants what formatting. That's why I always double-check the guidelines as I'm sending submissions. Of course, we're all human, and we all make mistakes.
A final note - keep in mind that much of this standard was developed in a time when most writers typed their manuscripts. You couldn't do italics as easily fifteen or twenty years ago as you can today. With most typewriters, it wasn't even an option. The objective of the standard seems to be to make the manuscript appear typed, and have a fairly consistent look, even with the introduction of efficient word processors and fancy fonts. Old habits (and preferences) die hard.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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      |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4491 | Posted 3/29/2008 3:39 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
    |  Bill Ward Biblioholic

       Date Joined Jul 2006 Total Posts : 1662 | Posted 3/29/2008 4:57 PM (GMT -4) |   | I'll try that CL.
My method, of course, only works if they do both italics and underlining, which is what I do,...so clearly that's limited and I wasn't thinking about people that don't use italics at all. My mistake, I realize it is harder to deal with than my solution.
And, CW, you use underlining in fiction? For what? I'll bet you 9,999 times out of 10,000 the underlining you get in a manuscript is not something the writer wants to see in the final.
I think you should clearly state in the guidelines and again in the acceptance that you want underlining replaced with italics...it's such a given that no one thinks twice about doing it themselves when they are told to have their formatting arranged as they like it--they'd no more worry about taking underling out than they would taking their headers or address off the manuscript, everyone assumes editors will do it, because editors always do.
Knowing you find them a hassle I take them out when sending to you, I think if you make it clear in guidelines and acceptance, writers will oblige. Most writers probably don't like using underlining anyway--personally, I hate it. billwardwriter.com | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Lyn Adopt

       Date Joined Sep 2007 Total Posts : 1306 | Posted 3/29/2008 5:33 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
   |  crystalwizard Forum Moderator

       Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 4710 | Posted 3/30/2008 3:50 AM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  R. L. Copple Acolyte

       Date Joined Mar 2007 Total Posts : 221 | Posted 3/30/2008 4:17 AM (GMT -4) |   | If you want to simply this, and you're comfortable inserting Macros into Word, use the following:
Sub UNDERLINEtoITALICSConvert()
With ActiveDocument.Content.Find .ClearFormatting .Font.Underline = True Do While .Execute(FindText:="", Forward:=True, _ Format:=True) = True With .Parent .Font.Underline = False .Font.Italic = True .Move Unit:=wdWord, Count:=1 End With Loop End With
End Sub
Then you simply open the document and run the macro. You can attach the macro to a button too, if you wish, to make it easily accessible, or a shortcut key.
I actually have several such macros that format these things into html codes for putting on our mag's website. I can pretty much format it to our standards with the click of a couple of buttons. For instance, if you wanted the above to make underlined text become html italics formatted:
Sub UNDERLINEtoHTMLConvert()
With ActiveDocument.Content.Find .ClearFormatting .Font.Underline = True Do While .Execute(FindText:="", Forward:=True, _ Format:=True) = True With .Parent .Font.Underline = False .InsertBefore "<i>" .InsertAfter "</i>" .Move Unit:=wdWord, Count:=1 End With Loop End With End Sub
My standard is to use italics, and then if someone wants it differently, I convert from that.
And, just for comparison, here is the Open Office equivalent, which is much more complex and took some research to find the specific variables needed:
sub UNDERLINEtoHTMLConvert
Dim oDoc As Object Dim oReplace As Object Dim SrchAttributes(0) As New com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue Dim ReplAttributes(0) As New com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue
oDoc = ThisComponent oReplace = oDoc.createReplaceDescriptor
REM -- Replace underlining with HTML Italics
'Regular expression. Match any text oReplace.SearchString = ".*" 'Note the & places the found text back oReplace.ReplaceString = "<i>&</i>" oReplace.SearchRegularExpression=True 'Use regular expressions oReplace.searchStyles=True 'We want to search styles oReplace.searchAll=True 'Do the entire document
REM This is the attribute to find SrchAttributes(0).Name = "CharUnderline" SrchAttributes(0).Value =com.sun.star.awt.FontUnderline.SINGLE
REM This is the attribute to replace it with ReplAttributes(0).Name = "CharWeight" ReplAttributes(0).Value =com.sun.star.awt.FontWeight.NORMAL
REM Set the attributes in the replace descriptor oReplace.SetSearchAttributes(SrchAttributes()) oReplace.SetReplaceAttributes(ReplAttributes())
REM Now do the work! oDoc.replaceAll(oReplace)
end sub
I have a lot more where that came from! :) Like taking out space-tabs, tabbed-tabs, formatted tabs, curly quotes to straight (hard to go the other way though), double-spacing paragraphs while single-spacing lines, or the reverse, changing formats to html or BBCode, etc., etc. Click! Done.
Also, one other note. If your story is going on the web, double spaces between sentences don't matter one bit. They don't show up. Two spaces shows up as one space on the web. Even if you plug in the web space character code twice, it will come out as one space. But, converting to one space is pretty easy. If you need to preserve spaced tabs, you'll need to convert them into something else first, like a find-replace on five spaces converted to 5 *s. Then do a find replace on 2 spaces to be replaced by one space. Then if you did the tab conversion, you'll need to convert that back from five *s to five spaces. R. L. Copple
blog.rlcopple.com www.raygunradio.com www.haruah.com
Infinite Realities available at Amazon.com | | Back to Top | | |
 |  crystalwizard Forum Moderator

       Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 4710 | Posted 3/30/2008 4:31 AM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  R. L. Copple Acolyte

       Date Joined Mar 2007 Total Posts : 221 | Posted 3/30/2008 4:49 AM (GMT -4) |   | In Word:
Tools, Macro, Visual Basic Editor
In the left window, you'll see a tree structure. At the top is "Normal," the default template for Word. Under that you will see a folder for "Modules." Under that you are likely to see some modules already in place. If not, right-click on the "Modules" folder, select "Insert" and then "Module." Then click on the new module, rename it if you wish. Click in the open window and paste the above macro(s) in there. Click the save button in the tool bar. Close the Visual Basic window.
Then to use it in Word, go to: Tools, Macro, and Macros... (Short cut key is Alt-F8)
Select the Macro and click "Run" and away it goes.
Use the help to learn how to attach a macro to a toolbar button or assign a shortcut key to it. R. L. Copple
blog.rlcopple.com www.raygunradio.com www.haruah.com
Infinite Realities available at Amazon.com | | Back to Top | | |
 |  darkbow Rabbit lord

       Date Joined Oct 2005 Total Posts : 1625 | Posted 3/30/2008 4:57 AM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
  |  crystalwizard Forum Moderator

       Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 4710 | Posted 3/30/2008 3:19 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
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