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| SFReader Forums > Writing > Gripe! > On being an editor | Forum Quick Jump
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)
      
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 2940
| Posted 5/10/2008 11:43 AM (GMT -4) |   |
Jaqhama said...
AlexMoisi said...
Wow...just wow...I am impresed with what people will submit and how ridiculous some cover leters are...How can someone expect you to take them seriously when they tell you to google their name for a full list of publications they are featured in.
This is standard practice on the internet for all sorts of business people and personalities.
You want to know who Keith ball is and what's he doing in business or writing?
You type Keith Ball into a search engine.
Type my name into google and you'll find all the motorcycle stuff I do and all the stories I've written or had published.
I'm surprised that you're surprised and have a problem with this type of self promotion?
I'm also surprised that you don't take people who make this suggestion seriously?
This is the 21 st century. This is the time of the world wide web.
Immerse yourself in internet etiquette and see how many of us utilise it.
And your forum signature here says:
Is this not almost the same thing as the fellow who asked you to google his name to find out about his previous works?
You are asking people to click that link. I see little difference between the two suggestions?
While all the above is true, Jaq, there is one fundamental element that is missing and is actually rather key to the whole thing: It is the attitude of the submitter (be it a cover letter for anything - resume, story submission, application, whatever). Whoever the submitter may or may not be, he/she has made the decision NOT to do the work of completing their resume/reasons for recommendation, and instead has foisted that labor off onto the person receiving and reading their application. That smacks of arrogance to me. And until anyone can guarantee that I won't waste time on dead links, inaccurate links, links that require log-ins, and links that won't require me to search a whole website for a particular reference - I won't accept their laziness and do their work for them. I've no time to. If you want me to look at yourself or your work, you should make every effort to give it to me the way I ask for it. If you don't care whether I accept it or not, don't bother sending it then. Neither of us need each other. At the very least, if someone is too lazy or considers their time more important than that of the person they are submitting to, they could follow AlexMoisi's example. He provides a direct link to his specifically defined site, telling me in advance what I'm going to find there and not making me search for a single thing. Hopefully, if he were to include that link in a resume he would not refer to himself as negatively, though. Perceptions, good sir; it's many times the deciding factor.
How can people afford to haggle with an editor over a story?
Because they care enough about their writing to do so.
And Editors aren't demi-gods.
Very true, both statements.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm making a huge error by refusing their story because they plan on selling it to Weird Tales, they just wanted me to have a first try at it.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm a ignorant becuase I didn't understand the subtle message underneath the words.
I recieved one e-mail telling me the author will never write a predictable story becuase that is boring and uselss and no one should desire that a character act in a manner that can be expected from him.
I recieved 20,000 word story when my guidelines state I acccept works up to 5000 words.
So if it's a good story...serialise it.
The above, however, are ridiculous statements to send back to an editor. These aren't haggling with an editor because they care enough about their writing. Once again, they are arrogant snipes uttered in ignorance and based upon assumption.
And you want me to read somebody's 20k piece to serialize it when I specifically say I only want up to 5k works? The arrogance of the sender is again amazing. What about the (at least) 4 other authors who did send me what I asked for and are patiently waiting for my reply? Not to mention my life situation or even my talents as an editor? It takes a different amount of concentration and level of editing to burn through four 5k pieces which are separate and distinct works then it does to churn through one 20k piece ensuring continuity and coherence. Where's the simple respect for and appreciation of the editor's time and life? The reasons behind stated submission guidelines aren't arbitrary - they at least have reason to that editor. No one forces anyone to submit there - if you don't wish to follow the guidelines, be decent enough not to submit there then - forcing your arrogant methods on me is rude and disrespectful. When you come to my house and I ask you to remove your shoes, I sure hope you respect me enough to do so. Cuz if you don't, you ain't coming in.
It all centers around who is coming to who - as it should. You come to me - you do it my way as much as possible. I come to you - ball's in your court now.
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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Jaqhama
Adventurer
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 391
| Posted 5/10/2008 5:46 AM (GMT -4) | |
AlexMoisi said...
Wow...just wow...I am impresed with what people will submit and how ridiculous some cover leters are...How can someone expect you to take them seriously when they tell you to google their name for a full list of publications they are featured in.
This is standard practice on the internet for all sorts of business people and personalities.
You want to know who Keith ball is and what's he doing in business or writing?
You type Keith Ball into a search engine.
Type my name into google and you'll find all the motorcycle stuff I do and all the stories I've written or had published.
I'm surprised that you're surprised and have a problem with this type of self promotion?
I'm also surprised that you don't take people who make this suggestion seriously?
This is the 21 st century. This is the time of the world wide web.
Immerse yourself in internet etiquette and see how many of us utilise it.
And your forum signature here says:
Is this not almost the same thing as the fellow who asked you to google his name to find out about his previous works?
You are asking people to click that link. I see little difference between the two suggestions?
How can people afford to haggle with an editor over a story?
Because they care enough about their writing to do so.
And Editors aren't demi-gods.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm making a huge error by refusing their story because they plan on selling it to Weird Tales, they just wanted me to have a first try at it.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm a ignorant becuase I didn't understand the subtle message underneath the words.
I recieved one e-mail telling me the author will never write a predictable story becuase that is boring and uselss and no one should desire that a character act in a manner that can be expected from him.
I recieved 20,000 word story when my guidelines state I acccept works up to 5000 words.
So if it's a good story...serialise it.
Someone told me to pick one of their stories from their frepress (I think) account and just send him the money for it....
I admire his confidence. Did you bother to go and read any of his stories?
Maybe they are superb...you won't know until you check.
Wow...just wow...
I expected it to be bad but not so bad...
I always expected that sci-fi and fantasy editors with webzines would pay more money for stories. I wouldn't be so critical of the writers submitting stuff to you if you're paying nothing or peanuts.
Cheers: Jaq.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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darkbow
Rabbit lord
Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 1575
| Posted 3/28/2008 6:58 PM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 2940
| Posted 3/28/2008 1:57 PM (GMT -4) | | agreed. though I am actually surprised they require that high a number. I'd be satisfied with a 75% or better, and see them listed with those percentages revealed.
Either way, congrats to you sir, for the fine showing EDF is having.
Regarding this initial post - I'm all for ignoring such nonsense, too. But I'll tell ya, when I started doing this stuff, I was shocked by the lack of decorum and even common sense by the mass of submitters. Until I realized they're no different than the rest of humanity - though I did anticipate better, due to my expectations of at least literate (as in semi-educated) people trying to get themselves into something they want in to. I mean, geez! These are people who would dress to the nines and stand in line and pay a cover charge to get into a hot, happening club! The fact they can't relate the two concepts just boggles the mind.
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 2940
| Posted 3/28/2008 1:40 PM (GMT -4) | |
Jordan Lapp said...
Edward Knight said...
One of the worst things you can do is respond to the...crap. If you ignore it it will go away sooner. And the best thing you can do is send out a generic looking rejection within a day of getting...crap. That helps them understand you aren't buying what they are selling and that you won't bother with it. I agree... and disagree.
It is best not to respond to writers who snap at your rejections, but we have found a certain cathardic relief in posting their responses online (with names deleted, of course). A bit of an (anonymous) public shaming hopefully encourages them to keep their cool next time. If you don't have forums of your own, you're welcome to post them in EDF's forums on our Hall of Shame thread.
As for anonymous rejection slips.... that might make sense when you start to get as many subs as Ed gets. At EDF, we've found that our personal rejections are one of our biggest selling points. Plus you get an extra link on Duotrope's very short list of markets who respond with personal rejections.
SIDE COMMENT: Jordan, your link took me to the list of response times - and EDF is nice and swift. But when I do the drop down menu of markets that use personal responses, EDF is absent . . . but Flashing Swords is present! http://www.duotrope.com/rtstats.aspx 
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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Wes
Neophyte
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 55
| Posted 3/28/2008 2:51 AM (GMT -4) | |
Tell you what: someone send me some money, and if I like how it spends, I'll scribble out a story and mail it to you (assuming you'll spring for postage, of course).
After all, it's the very least I can do. 
Wesley Lambert
Recent publications:
"The Reluctant Viking," in Flashing Swords
"A Darkness on the Deep," Strange Stories of Sand and Sea | | Back to Top | | |
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darkbow
Rabbit lord
Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 1575
| Posted 3/28/2008 12:47 AM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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nathan
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2111
| Posted 3/27/2008 7:39 PM (GMT -4) | |
AlexMoisi said...
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm a ignorant becuase I didn't understand the subtle message underneath the words. Okay, okay--I know this an editors thread, lol. But I will admit to feeling slightly frustrated when editors seem to miss allusion, methaphor or literary reference.
Now, everybody can't have read everything, or remember all of everything they've ever read, let's be fair. And sometimes what is seen as obvious to the person in the know (the writer) is extremely obstuse (sic subtle) to the person not in the know (the editor) who's just read 50k in words before they got to the story.
But I'll be honest--and of course no editor whoever posts on this board falls into this category--I've had editors who seemed woefully ignorant of the genre they're soliciting stories within. As if their frame of reference was last weeks NYT best seller list...and only that. Who would miss symbolism lifted straight out of say, the Young Goodman Brown, or a stylistic device from Occurance At Owl Creek.
Fair or not, being an editor is seen as an intellectual and academic postion--as oppossed to, say, digging a ditch and when editors seem unaware or shallow (ecspecially in the confines of their own genre) and (dare I say it) not very well read, then the reaction from a submitting writer can range from bemusement to active wall banging with your head.
On the other hand Ed Knight once told me got a submission written entirely in crayon.
VIEW IMAGE"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
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