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| SFReader Forums > Writing > Gripe! > On being an editor | Forum Quick Jump
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Wes
Neophyte
      
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 56
| Posted 3/28/2008 2:51 AM (GMT -4) |   |
Tell you what: someone send me some money, and if I like how it spends, I'll scribble out a story and mail it to you (assuming you'll spring for postage, of course).
After all, it's the very least I can do. 
Wesley Lambert
Recent publications:
"The Reluctant Viking," in Flashing Swords
"A Darkness on the Deep," Strange Stories of Sand and Sea | | Back to Top | | |
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 2992
| Posted 3/28/2008 1:40 PM (GMT -4) | |
Jordan Lapp said...
Edward Knight said...
One of the worst things you can do is respond to the...crap. If you ignore it it will go away sooner. And the best thing you can do is send out a generic looking rejection within a day of getting...crap. That helps them understand you aren't buying what they are selling and that you won't bother with it. I agree... and disagree.
It is best not to respond to writers who snap at your rejections, but we have found a certain cathardic relief in posting their responses online (with names deleted, of course). A bit of an (anonymous) public shaming hopefully encourages them to keep their cool next time. If you don't have forums of your own, you're welcome to post them in EDF's forums on our Hall of Shame thread.
As for anonymous rejection slips.... that might make sense when you start to get as many subs as Ed gets. At EDF, we've found that our personal rejections are one of our biggest selling points. Plus you get an extra link on Duotrope's very short list of markets who respond with personal rejections.
SIDE COMMENT: Jordan, your link took me to the list of response times - and EDF is nice and swift. But when I do the drop down menu of markets that use personal responses, EDF is absent . . . but Flashing Swords is present! http://www.duotrope.com/rtstats.aspx 
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 2992
| Posted 3/28/2008 1:57 PM (GMT -4) | | agreed. though I am actually surprised they require that high a number. I'd be satisfied with a 75% or better, and see them listed with those percentages revealed.
Either way, congrats to you sir, for the fine showing EDF is having.
Regarding this initial post - I'm all for ignoring such nonsense, too. But I'll tell ya, when I started doing this stuff, I was shocked by the lack of decorum and even common sense by the mass of submitters. Until I realized they're no different than the rest of humanity - though I did anticipate better, due to my expectations of at least literate (as in semi-educated) people trying to get themselves into something they want in to. I mean, geez! These are people who would dress to the nines and stand in line and pay a cover charge to get into a hot, happening club! The fact they can't relate the two concepts just boggles the mind.
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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darkbow
Rabbit lord
Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 1647
| Posted 3/28/2008 6:58 PM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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Jaqhama
Adventurer
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 464
| Posted 5/10/2008 5:46 AM (GMT -4) | |
AlexMoisi said...
Wow...just wow...I am impresed with what people will submit and how ridiculous some cover leters are...How can someone expect you to take them seriously when they tell you to google their name for a full list of publications they are featured in.
This is standard practice on the internet for all sorts of business people and personalities.
You want to know who Keith ball is and what's he doing in business or writing?
You type Keith Ball into a search engine.
Type my name into google and you'll find all the motorcycle stuff I do and all the stories I've written or had published.
I'm surprised that you're surprised and have a problem with this type of self promotion?
I'm also surprised that you don't take people who make this suggestion seriously?
This is the 21 st century. This is the time of the world wide web.
Immerse yourself in internet etiquette and see how many of us utilise it.
And your forum signature here says:
Is this not almost the same thing as the fellow who asked you to google his name to find out about his previous works?
You are asking people to click that link. I see little difference between the two suggestions?
How can people afford to haggle with an editor over a story?
Because they care enough about their writing to do so.
And Editors aren't demi-gods.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm making a huge error by refusing their story because they plan on selling it to Weird Tales, they just wanted me to have a first try at it.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm a ignorant becuase I didn't understand the subtle message underneath the words.
I recieved one e-mail telling me the author will never write a predictable story becuase that is boring and uselss and no one should desire that a character act in a manner that can be expected from him.
I recieved 20,000 word story when my guidelines state I acccept works up to 5000 words.
So if it's a good story...serialise it.
Someone told me to pick one of their stories from their frepress (I think) account and just send him the money for it....
I admire his confidence. Did you bother to go and read any of his stories?
Maybe they are superb...you won't know until you check.
Wow...just wow...
I expected it to be bad but not so bad...
I always expected that sci-fi and fantasy editors with webzines would pay more money for stories. I wouldn't be so critical of the writers submitting stuff to you if you're paying nothing or peanuts.
Cheers: Jaq.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 2992
| Posted 5/10/2008 11:43 AM (GMT -4) | |
Jaqhama said...
AlexMoisi said...
Wow...just wow...I am impresed with what people will submit and how ridiculous some cover leters are...How can someone expect you to take them seriously when they tell you to google their name for a full list of publications they are featured in.
This is standard practice on the internet for all sorts of business people and personalities.
You want to know who Keith ball is and what's he doing in business or writing?
You type Keith Ball into a search engine.
Type my name into google and you'll find all the motorcycle stuff I do and all the stories I've written or had published.
I'm surprised that you're surprised and have a problem with this type of self promotion?
I'm also surprised that you don't take people who make this suggestion seriously?
This is the 21 st century. This is the time of the world wide web.
Immerse yourself in internet etiquette and see how many of us utilise it.
And your forum signature here says:
Is this not almost the same thing as the fellow who asked you to google his name to find out about his previous works?
You are asking people to click that link. I see little difference between the two suggestions?
While all the above is true, Jaq, there is one fundamental element that is missing and is actually rather key to the whole thing: It is the attitude of the submitter (be it a cover letter for anything - resume, story submission, application, whatever). Whoever the submitter may or may not be, he/she has made the decision NOT to do the work of completing their resume/reasons for recommendation, and instead has foisted that labor off onto the person receiving and reading their application. That smacks of arrogance to me. And until anyone can guarantee that I won't waste time on dead links, inaccurate links, links that require log-ins, and links that won't require me to search a whole website for a particular reference - I won't accept their laziness and do their work for them. I've no time to. If you want me to look at yourself or your work, you should make every effort to give it to me the way I ask for it. If you don't care whether I accept it or not, don't bother sending it then. Neither of us need each other. At the very least, if someone is too lazy or considers their time more important than that of the person they are submitting to, they could follow AlexMoisi's example. He provides a direct link to his specifically defined site, telling me in advance what I'm going to find there and not making me search for a single thing. Hopefully, if he were to include that link in a resume he would not refer to himself as negatively, though. Perceptions, good sir; it's many times the deciding factor.
How can people afford to haggle with an editor over a story?
Because they care enough about their writing to do so.
And Editors aren't demi-gods.
Very true, both statements.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm making a huge error by refusing their story because they plan on selling it to Weird Tales, they just wanted me to have a first try at it.
I recieved e-mails telling me I'm a ignorant becuase I didn't understand the subtle message underneath the words.
I recieved one e-mail telling me the author will never write a predictable story becuase that is boring and uselss and no one should desire that a character act in a manner that can be expected from him.
I recieved 20,000 word story when my guidelines state I acccept works up to 5000 words.
So if it's a good story...serialise it.
The above, however, are ridiculous statements to send back to an editor. These aren't haggling with an editor because they care enough about their writing. Once again, they are arrogant snipes uttered in ignorance and based upon assumption.
And you want me to read somebody's 20k piece to serialize it when I specifically say I only want up to 5k works? The arrogance of the sender is again amazing. What about the (at least) 4 other authors who did send me what I asked for and are patiently waiting for my reply? Not to mention my life situation or even my talents as an editor? It takes a different amount of concentration and level of editing to burn through four 5k pieces which are separate and distinct works then it does to churn through one 20k piece ensuring continuity and coherence. Where's the simple respect for and appreciation of the editor's time and life? The reasons behind stated submission guidelines aren't arbitrary - they at least have reason to that editor. No one forces anyone to submit there - if you don't wish to follow the guidelines, be decent enough not to submit there then - forcing your arrogant methods on me is rude and disrespectful. When you come to my house and I ask you to remove your shoes, I sure hope you respect me enough to do so. Cuz if you don't, you ain't coming in.
It all centers around who is coming to who - as it should. You come to me - you do it my way as much as possible. I come to you - ball's in your court now.
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 2992
| Posted 5/10/2008 2:03 PM (GMT -4) | | | Regarding the 20k piece, you are right and I meant to say the same. Receiving a query about something like that and giving me the editor the chance to at least know about it in advance makes a huge difference. I'm totally open to that.
And I also agree with you in the sense that the less an editor/publisher pays and/or does for its authors, the less demanding he/she/it should be. To a degree. That is a hard line to stick to, though, when you are a small press editor who would love to be able to afford to pay more to his authors but there just ain't money to do it with. When submissions are pouring over the windowsills though, as they continue to pile up in droves, it's rather hard for an editor not to reject reading the 20k manuscript in favor of reading the five 4k manuscripts on either side of it simply out of an "You've got to be kidding me!?" mentality. It all comes down to practicality and time, and I'm often out of both
I believe I side more often than not with "the writers" than "the editors" - Though I'm enjoying it, I'm the latter by accident and still trying to become the former. I believe that the better I do my editing/publishing/promoting tasks, the better I serve the authors who come to me. I believe that the more quality product I can put out the better it will be for my authors. So I believe the better FSP becomes, the better off its authors will become.
~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press (site soon to come)
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Lyn
Adopt
Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 1354
| Posted 5/10/2008 6:05 PM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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R. L. Copple
Acolyte
Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 232
| Posted 5/11/2008 10:48 PM (GMT -4) | | Bill's right. Being an editor, even though we don't have thousands or even hundreds of submissions, I only have so much time I can devote to it, I'm doing it on a volunteer basis. The bottom line is, if a submitter is serious about the editor taking a look at his or her work, they will make it as painless on the editor as possible, by following the rules. It simply gives one a better chance of success. I certainly wouldn't have time to google everyone's submission.
But, and the other not mentioned thing, as an author, I wouldn't want to request they google my name. Not because I have anything to hide, but because they'll get other stuff, maybe someone else who isn't me but matches the name somewhere down the road. No telling what might turn up that gets misunderstood. As a writer, I think that would leave too much open to chance. Best to include any needed info in the submission so they don't have to go looking for it, because they won't go looking for it, they'll just move onto the next one at the worst or ignore it at best. If it is in the cover letter, then they may read it. The only time I go googling or clicking on links in a submission is if I suspect plagiarism, or that it is a reprint they failed to tell us it was.
R. L. Copple
blog.rlcopple.com
www.raygunradio.com
www.haruah.com
Infinite Realities available at Amazon.com | | Back to Top | | |
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