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crystalwizard
Forum Moderator

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5004

Posted 8/19/2007 3:54 PM (GMT -5)

I hate narrow minded, dogmatic people who feel that just because they have never experienced something, it doesn't exist and anyone else that says they have the problem is using it as an excuse.

I hate that, i really really really hate that.

Did I mention I hate that?

I hate that.

Okay, I feel better now. Kinda.

BarbT
Acolyte

Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 392

Posted 8/19/2007 4:25 PM (GMT -5)

Ah, the comfortable superiority of perfection.

Karma will get them.

Jordan Lapp
Top 5 Poster

Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2806

Posted 8/19/2007 4:30 PM (GMT -5)

Context?

Jordan Lapp

Managing Editor

Every Day Fiction

von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)

Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 3056

Posted 8/19/2007 4:39 PM (GMT -5)

well I know for a fact and despite all the evidence to the contrary that, since I've never experienced it, delivery of a newborn baby is impossible.

~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Associate Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard

crystalwizard
Forum Moderator

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5004

Posted 8/19/2007 7:51 PM (GMT -5)

Jordan Lapp said...
Context?

Explain?

von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)

Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 3056

Posted 8/19/2007 7:52 PM (GMT -5)

He (and the rest of us) would like to know just what exactly you are refering to

crystalwizard
Forum Moderator

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5004

Posted 8/19/2007 8:07 PM (GMT -5)

Oh. A couple of (various growling sounds) 'PEOPLE' in the writing group I'm in who are of the opinion that because they don't have a problem with writer's block, it doesn't exist and that anyone who claims they have it, is either lazy, or using it as an excuse. Dave graciously agreed to allow me to share his excellent article with the group. I'm sorry now that I did.

Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!

Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard

All my books in print:
http://sojourn.omnitech.net

john a karr
Neophyte

Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 56

Posted 8/19/2007 8:15 PM (GMT -5)

I tried a writer's group several years ago. Five or six meetings was enough to last me a lifetime.

Boards like this are good for certain kinds of feedback, however.

"Yes, it's hard to write, but it's harder not to." -- Carl Van Doren

http://johnakarr.com/

Random Writer (my blog)

darkbow
Rabbit lord

Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 1696

Posted 8/19/2007 9:47 PM (GMT -5)

I've run across a good number of people, some pro writers and some wannabes and some none of the above, who don't believe in writer's block. I know I believe in it. You can call it something else if you like, but it's there. I would never call it laziness. A lazy writer is often just someone who likes to think of themselves as a writer but isn't willing to put in the work, though that's not always true either.

In my own experience, five years worth of suffering, writer's block came down to fear and a compulsive need for perfection in my prose. I busted through that about five years ago by starting up again with screenwriting, which I had originally thought of as an "easy" and "low" form of writing. I was proved wrong. And it got me going again.

www.tyjohnston.blogspot.com

"Hot Off the Press" now available in Ray Gun Revival #25.

erazmus
Master

Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 4539

Posted 8/20/2007 12:03 AM (GMT -5)

At a certain point in time and development, writers block becomes less of a problem. When you have sussumed the mechanics of composition to the point where you can take an outline and write the story reguardless of whether you are into the story or it comes alive for you, writers block isn't a factor. Professional novelist, in the "I have five books under contract and the next one is due thursday after next" sense, have to be able to perform this way, even though it means you may not turn in your best work. People who put themselves in that situation simply do not "believe" in writers block.

And they go and tell others it doesn't exist as well. But if you haven't mastered the mechanical skills of composition to that level, if you haven't developed the confidence of your authorial voice to that depth, then blockage can present a real challenge. I think that, usually, "writers block" is a condition where a writer refuses to allow themselves to write crap. It is easy to write when you're "on", much harder to write when you aren't and impossible to write well all the time. When you can't currently write well and you won't let yourself write poorly, you have writer's block.

But every pro on a schedual has pretty much gotten over that, and they all start by letting themselves write poorly. Working through and discarding the crap, which doesn't last very long because they are writing, and because each has developed strategies to overcome the slump. It takes a heck of a lot of confidence to write through something like that and _know_ the story will be fine anyways.

Try it and see.

Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
"Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html
"Slushpiles" in Between the Kisses
www.samsdotpublishing.com/betweenkisses/TurnerSlushPileS.htm

MichaelEhart
Sage

Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2336

Posted 8/20/2007 1:47 AM (GMT -5)

I agree. Embrace the crap, and the words will flow. Clean it up afterwords.

Read me in 2007!

"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007

"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007

"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007

"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!

"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007

"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007

"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007

"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007

"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007

"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007

http://mehart.blogspot.com/

Rob Santa
Sage

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 1455

Posted 8/21/2007 11:59 AM (GMT -5)

Been my philosophy as well, to embrace the crap (and what an outstanding turn of phrase that is). But I only press on through the mire when I have something under deadline. If not, I'll shuffle the offending writing aside and move on to something else.

Rob Santa

Hopelessly Addicted Writer of Speculative Fiction

and CEO of Ricasso Press

Hermit
Diavhrati Luminary

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1729

Posted 8/21/2007 2:50 PM (GMT -5)

I'm with you there, crystal wizard. I think I understand what you're saying.

Deny god and you won't have to feel guilty about not feeling pious.

Deny depression and you never have a breakdown - just spats of the blues.

I agree completely with Erazmus' stance above. But I think that many of the folks who have learned this have a tendancy treat anyone who does suffer from it as some kind of superstitious savage. Alas, what pitiful cave-writers we be.

But it is a cruel and assinine stance to take, as it is any time you deny the validity of another's experience or emotion simply to protect yourself. Happens all the time in too many contexts to name. Sometimes folks know they're doing it (for shame!

), but mostly I think folks are completely uncognizant of it until someone tosses a cup of (hopefully tepid) coffee in their face and calls them an insensitive lout. Pity their lack of insight and piss in their shoes - that's what works for me.

Incredibly prolific penster

crystalwizard
Forum Moderator

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5004

Posted 8/21/2007 2:54 PM (GMT -5)

I admire the people that can force themselves through a blockage of creative energy, and I don't argue the fact that most people can learn to do this, but my original complaint was against the individuals in the group and their attitude in general.

Hermit
Diavhrati Luminary

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1729

Posted 8/21/2007 3:11 PM (GMT -5)

That's what this part was about. Perhaps I could better state it thus: I assume that these folks have learned to deal with writer's block with sufficient success that they can deny it exists. But in denying it, they (inadvertently or purposely) demean those who suffer from it by denying them the validity of their experience and/or emotions. And that is not playing nicely!!! i.e. i'm with you; their attitude sucks dirty marbles.

crystalwizard said...
I admire the people that can force themselves through a blockage of creative energy, and I don't argue the fact that most people can learn to do this, but my original complaint was against the individuals in the group and their attitude in general.

Incredibly prolific penster

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