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Jaqhama
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   Posted 3/29/2008 11:57 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Gustavo said...
Have to agree with everything said here about the length of modern sci-fi vs. pulp age at the novel length, although I have to admit that the revival of Space Opera of late has me hopeful. It also seems that "traditional" Sword & Sorcery in which a big barbarian goes through enormous numbers of bad guys with an obscenely proportioned sword has also come and gone.

And yet, I can't help but feel that today seems to be a golden age for heroic fantasy. Robert Jordan (yes, he died, but his series goes on), Raymond Feist, George RR Martin, Terry Goodkind (yes, I know his writing isn't up to par, but millions of people disagree with me), Terry Brooks, David Farland (aka Dave WOlvereton, who used to be a science fiction writer), etc. Seems that we've got huge quantities of choice. And yes, the books are a bit more bloated, but they seem to have found the right balance between literature and action to give us some great stuff.

So maybe things AREN'T all that bad. After all, the old stuff is still available...

I don't read much 'epic' sword and sorcery fantasy these days. I prefer the old authors.
 
I have read, and do like many of David Gemmel's books. The Drenai series.
 
In recent years I've strayed away from fantasy and concentrated on fictional thrillers and military adventure stories. Authors like Chris Ryan.
 
I must say one of my fave novels of recent years is The Descent by Jeff Long.
Action/adventure/military sci-fi.
Strong characters, evil villians, an exotic underworld location...a dark and eerie book.


You can read some of my stories here:
Skulkers. Jack be nimble, Jack be quick. RAT's. La Carcajou. Jet Bike Boogie...at www.pulpanddagger.com
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
at www.bikernet.com (Plus many of my motorcycle related articles.)
The Covert OP. Chick Prick...at www.milstory.com

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darkbow
Rabbit lord



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   Posted 3/29/2008 2:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You might like them, and plenty of people do, put those 1000 pager doorstrops were not common before ... hm, oh, let's say the early 1990s, maybe the late 80s. LOTR of course was long, being the grandaddy of them all, and Brooks' Shannara books were pretty big, but most 80s fantasy I'd hazard a guess was in the 300 to 400 page range. And prior to the 80s? Try 200 pages or less for the most part, and you often could buy them for less than a dollar.

Not criticizing anyone's reading tastes here. I've read plenty of thouse 1000 pagers myself, but I'll generally prefer those shorter works from the 70s from guys like Andrew Offutt, Don Pendleton, etc.


"Steven Spielberg and The Magic Box" upcoming at The Ranfurly Review.
"Peter Piker the Pankin Man" upcoming at Big Pulp
"Walking Between the Rain"
at Every Day Fiction
"Beneath a Persian Sun" upcoming in Carnivah House's "Infinity Swords" anthology
"Deep in the Land of the Ice and Snow" in "The Return of the Sword" anthology
"Hot Off the Press" Ray Gun Revival #25, 2007
 
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Gustavo
Sage



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   Posted 4/1/2008 1:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Also enjoy the older stuff... And Dickens and Austen, for that matter, so no offense taken. What I like about the 15000 word series is that you can really immerse yourself in a way that is impossible with anything shorter than LOTR...

And I didn't say there was NO market for the older stuff (OK; maybe I did :-) ). But it's not as fertile asa it was in the sixties, for example, where every second fantasy book was a barbarian title of some kind (and the first was LOTR!).


Visit my livejournal!  http://bondo-ba.livejournal.com/ 

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Jaqhama
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   Posted 4/2/2008 10:34 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Books are getting very expensive...so how come more publishers haven't worked out that they could produce 200 page books...and sell them at half the price of a 500 page novel...and (if they have decent authors and stories) in the long run sell more books and thus make more money?

If you bought (Example) a book by Justin Case...Cyborg Atomic...160 pages...for US$7.50.
You liked it a lot.
Justin has three more books in the Cyborg Atomic series...all 160 pages...all at $7.50.
That's $30 for 640 pages.
As opposed to $20 for 500 pages.

So the publisher has made more money selling 4 books than selling one.

And...at $7.50...even if the reader didn't like Cyborg Atomic, he won't feel as bad as if he paid $20 bucks and didn't like it.

I think major publishing houses should be looking at more novels, more authors but less pages...thus reducing the cost of the book...but providing a wider choice of stories/genres/authors than they currently do.

If you pay $20 for a major new novel by Joe Greatnewauthor...and don't like it...will you buy his next novel?
And major publishing houses produce so few new titles each month these days that a reader of a certain genre is no longer spoiled for choice.

I'm just thinking out loud here by the way. It's 0130 hrs and I've been mountain biking twice today, so I may be a little off the track.

Lower the number of pages per book. Make the books more affordable for everyone and maybe sell more books in the long run.

It's a long term vision, not a short time money making process.


You can read some of my stories here:
Skulkers. Jack be nimble, Jack be quick. RAT's. La Carcajou. Jet Bike Boogie...at www.pulpanddagger.com
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
at www.bikernet.com (Plus many of my motorcycle related articles.)
The Covert OP. Chick Prick...at www.milstory.com

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erazmus
Master



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   Posted 4/2/2008 1:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have heard, and had disputed, that the cost of the book covers on a paperback is significantly higher per unit than the cost of the pages. Thus cutting the length in half doesn't save you half the printing cost. And popular wisdom on 5th ave is that thick books overcome buyer reluctance easier than thin ones. That the public somehow feels that buying writing is like buying fish, as if the price should be listed as pennies per pound.
Which would mean that the single volume large font paperback edition of Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire should be a hit best seller, right?
So far the move is to the prestige paperback format, which is slightly taller than the old standard and about a dollar more. Except for Hard Case Crime, which has focused on thinner books, new and clasic in their genre, at a slightly lower price. Guess what? I buy them all the time. And I never used to read that genre.

Mike


Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
"Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html
"Morning Coffee" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/
"The Jewel Below" in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm
"Happy Landings" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/
"Teller of Tales" in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/
Read "Silver Shells" In Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/silver-shells-by-michael-d-turner/

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rimworlder
Stablehand



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   Posted 4/3/2008 8:30 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
a couple of comments:
 
first - set-up fees are pretty fixed, regardless of the length of the book, so the additional cost of longer versus shorter is kind of moot.
 
second - I suspect that larger books has more to do with shelf-space and number of units purchased than it does book production costs.
 
A 'case' of thousand-pagers has say, 6 units in it, while a 'case' of 200 pagers has 30 units in it.  If both books are retail 7.99 at a 55% discount to the re-seller, than to stock the large book costs them $21.60 (3.60 per unit) and a case of the smaller books costs them $108...
 
(Made up numbers for illustrative purposes)
 
Along with that, they can "fill" their racks with far fewer titles going with the larger books.
 
Third - one piece of cover art, versus multiple.
 
On the other hand: if you figure readers read and consume at some kind of a regular rate, larger books means FEWER purchases, just on time spent to read alone...
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Jaqhama
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Total Posts : 510
 
   Posted 6/8/2008 7:11 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Ah, these book covers bring back memories...

http://www.trashfiction.co.uk/sf00.html

This was sci-fi and fantasy in it's heyday.

 

 


You can read some of my stories here:
Skulkers. Jack be nimble, Jack be quick. RAT's. La Carcajou. Jet Bike Boogie...at www.pulpanddagger.com
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
at www.bikernet.com (Plus many of my motorcycle related articles.)
The Covert OP. Chick Prick...at www.milstory.com

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