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Hermit
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  		   Posted 5/19/2008 10:00 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm sure there has to be someone out there rating and certifying and credentialing editors. Who is it? How do you find them? Is there a committee or organization that credentials SFF editors? I'm really curious about this.
 
If so, how are editors rated? Do they test in? Is it based on CV? How do they segregate the editors by type? I'm up against more deadlines, but I intend to pursue this within the next month or so. I'd appreciate any leads/references/links etc. anyone is willing to provide.
 
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell

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von Darkmoor
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  		   Posted 5/19/2008 10:15 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hmm, interesting question, David. You've piqued my curiosity now, too. You say you're 'sure there has to be someone out there rating and certifying and credentialing' us, huh? Why/how are you so sure? I mean, beyond personal ratings, what organization would you think is doing such a thing? Off the top of my head the best I come up with is to suggest SFWA, but I've no evidence or information of this. Well, I'll follow along this route of discovery you've unveiled and see what is found.

~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press
First Book Released: The Return of the Sword
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz?
House von Darkmoor - where the real action is
von Darkmoor's thoughts - where it all began

~~~~~~~~~~
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Lyn
Yep, I Muck



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  		   Posted 5/19/2008 10:21 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I can rate you if you want. :-)

BTW, This string covers some of this ground...
forum.sfreader.com/default~f~61~m~80202.html

Lyn from ResAliens
Reviewing Zines at The Fix
Reviewing Short Stories at My Blog
And Promoting Strange Worlds of Lunacy

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Hermit
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  		   Posted 5/19/2008 2:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Lyn, that's what sparked the question. Not of being qualified, but of being credentialed. Who gives out awards and certificates and professional ratings for editors? I'm pretty convinced of my own merits; question is how to get a J.D. Powers "Certified Ace Editor" placquard on my wall.

Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
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"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
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Lyn
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  		   Posted 5/19/2008 2:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ah, now I get it. Well, hmm. Like H von Darkmoor I don't know if a place exists. I'm sure one can find a course to take and be "credentialed" by somebody.

Lyn from ResAliens
Reviewing Zines at The Fix
Reviewing Short Stories at My Blog
And Promoting Strange Worlds of Lunacy

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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)



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  		   Posted 5/19/2008 2:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That's right! Cuz only a few of us merit a "Certified Arse Editor" on our walls!

~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press
First Book Released: The Return of the Sword
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz?
House von Darkmoor - where the real action is
von Darkmoor's thoughts - where it all began

~~~~~~~~~~
Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard

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Hermit
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  		   Posted 5/19/2008 3:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

One course won't do it. I'm thinking more along the lines of a GRE-type test. A serious certification system with measurable (real) criteria. Problem with this is that there are how many different Style books out now? And then there are hybrid editorial guidelines for particular publishers. Not to mention that grammar and punctuation are really only a tip of the iceberg of serious editorship. Diction and syntax can be correct numerous ways, but a really good editor (text/line/copy/story editor) can massage it into the best it can be. A great one can show writers how to do that for themselves.

And then there's acquisitions. And editorial correspondences. And editorial writing. And article writing. And . . . and . . . and

Lyn said...
Ah, now I get it. Well, hmm. Like H von Darkmoor I don't know if a place exists. I'm sure one can find a course to take and be "credentialed" by somebody.

Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
Assistant Copy Editor: Flashing Swords Magazine

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crystalwizard
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  		   Posted 5/19/2008 7:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MysticWino said...
I'm sure there has to be someone out there rating and certifying and credentialing editors. Who is it? How do you find them? Is there a committee or organization that credentials SFF editors? I'm really curious about this.


If you find that committe or org, let me know. Far as I know it's either the company you work for or groups like SFWA

MysticWino said...

If so, how are editors rated? Do they test in? Is it based on CV? How do they segregate the editors by type? I'm up against more deadlines, but I intend to pursue this within the next month or so. I'd appreciate any leads/references/links etc. anyone is willing to provide.


who's this 'they' you're speaking of? Are you looking for something to put on your resume? Or are you looking for some other use?

You could put whatever language arts degree you hold, if any, by your name. If you took subjects in college to become a journalist or something along that line, you can list that. You can list your work history, places you've edited for. If you go to careerbuilder.com and Monster, and search on editor, you'll find that a lot of companies who want editors are looking for 'B.S. degree or equivalent work experience in the field of...'

Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!



Managing Editor of Flashing Swords

Visit my art gallery on art wanted
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crystalwizard
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  		   Posted 5/19/2008 7:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And after I posted that, I found this. I think this is what you're after, David.

www.manuscriptediting.com/copyeditors.htm

Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!



Managing Editor of Flashing Swords

Visit my art gallery on art wanted
All my books in print

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Hermit
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  		   Posted 5/20/2008 9:05 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Interesting leads, thanks.
Seems there's a bias toward . . . Journalism . . . in the application of the title Copyeditor
Some good tips and reminders out there among the sources. I guess if you want real credibility, you either build it yourself over time or join MLA . . .

Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
Assistant Copy Editor: Flashing Swords Magazine

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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)



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  		   Posted 5/20/2008 9:18 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
or JLA

~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press
First Book Released: The Return of the Sword
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz?
House von Darkmoor - where the real action is
von Darkmoor's thoughts - where it all began

~~~~~~~~~~
Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard

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Hermit
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  		   Posted 5/20/2008 11:43 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What's the Justice League of America have to do with it?

Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
Assistant Copy Editor: Flashing Swords Magazine

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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)



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  		   Posted 5/20/2008 11:59 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What are you talking about?  You said that "if you want real credibility, you either build it yourself over time or join MLA." I'm merely suggesting you join the JLA = Junior Litigators Association and sue for credibility smilewinkgrin

~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Managing Editor, Flashing Swords Press
First Book Released: The Return of the Sword
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz?
House von Darkmoor - where the real action is
von Darkmoor's thoughts - where it all began

~~~~~~~~~~
Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard

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crystalwizard
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  		   Posted 5/21/2008 4:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MysticWino said...
I guess if you want real credibility, you either build it yourself over time or join MLA . . .


I vote for the build it yourself road.
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Hermit
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  		   Posted 5/26/2008 1:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That's more work than I care to do, CW. Building an organization, I mean. My own credibility . . . I really only consider that when someone starts slandering editors in general or someone asks me "who are you to tell me . . ." My usual response is something like, "I'm the one you asked for a professional opinion".

Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
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Jordan Lapp
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  		   Posted 5/26/2008 1:27 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Winning a Hugo would make you credible I think. I think the true measure of your credibility is how many people read the stuff you put out....

Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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Hermit
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  		   Posted 5/26/2008 2:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jordan Lapp said...
 I think the true measure of your credibility is how many people read the stuff you put out....

I don't think that's at all a valid measure of skill or talent. Readership is more a measure of marketing than it is writing or editing.

Not to say that it is not one of the highest goals, just to say that it has nothing to do with real credibility. Statistics . . . are what you make of them.

Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
Assistant Copy Editor: Flashing Swords Magazine

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Jordan Lapp
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  		   Posted 5/26/2008 2:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MysticWino said...
Jordan Lapp said...
 I think the true measure of your credibility is how many people read the stuff you put out....

I don't think that's at all a valid measure of skill or talent. Readership is more a measure of marketing than it is writing or editing.

In my opinion, you can't entirely divorce readership from quality. If you have a great product, word of mouth will spread and you'll get readers, hence my assertion that more readers==good editor. More, if you have a great product, writers and other editors will notice you and spread the word about you... but only if your stuff gets read. Just my opinion.

Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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Lyn
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  		   Posted 5/26/2008 3:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Case in point: Harry Potter.

Lyn from ResAliens
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Reviewing Short Stories at My Blog
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Hermit
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  		   Posted 5/26/2008 5:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I doubt Harry Potter obtained its notariety for editing. Who was its editor?
Readership may reflect well on an editor, but it has nothing to show for the editor's skill; albeit, low readership might or might not be an indicator of an editor's incompetence. I totally disagree with your equation, Jordan. It seems to me naive and idealistic. And insular. Not to mention a vicious slap in the face to those of us who bust our asses for publications whose marketing support is ineffective.
But then, we're talking apples and oranges here. You seem to be talking about either a Managing Editor or a NeoRenn Editor. I'm talking more generally about those of us who edit more extensive works and stay aloof of administration/management/marketing. I'm also talking about editors who edit publications for sale, as opposed to those who ride a gravy train built on advertising and grant revenues and who GIVE the writing away. There's a gigantic difference.

Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
Assistant Copy Editor: Flashing Swords Magazine

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Jordan Lapp
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  		   Posted 5/26/2008 5:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm sorry, David. I couched my statement as non-confrontationally as I could, adding "in my opinion" twice. I'm not sure how to converse with you without offending, so I'll just stay off threads that you're posting on.

Jordan Lapp
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Hermit
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  		   Posted 5/26/2008 6:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm not offended, Jordan. Simply expressing my difference of opinion. I respect your opinion as an opinion. However, I find it very limited and unrealistic. It applies to far too few markets in which editors ply their trade.
If I'm offended at all, Jordan, it is by the fact that this is not a real world measure of an editor's work. It seems to me that it should be. But my experience and that of many, many other professionals proves out my stance in contending against your opinion. You have in no way offended me. Even in jumping once again to the conclusion that I am so easily offended. I'm simply trying to figure things out here. I took your opinion into careful consideration and find readership to be totally inadequate as a measure of editorial skills. It is too dependant on marketing, management, and administration concerns which are distinctly outside the editor's purview.

Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
Assistant Copy Editor: Flashing Swords Magazine

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Jordan Lapp
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  		   Posted 5/26/2008 6:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't think of it as the sole metric, of course, but I think it's important, at least for a managing editor, especially if we think of the market in purely capitalistic terms. The cream rises to positions where they can take advantage of that "gravy train" you mentioned ealier.

I wonder why fantasic editors would labour in obscurity? If they were so amazing, certainly they would get noticed, and eventually hired to a more visible position? Just thinking out loud here...

Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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Hermit
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  		   Posted 5/26/2008 6:22 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sorry, Jordan.
I'm in my poet self today. Which is totally the sense of frustration you're picking up on. As a poet, and to some degree as an editor, I resent the capitalistic paradigm. I loathe it with every fiber of my being - especially those 36 Bohemian threads ;-)
I do agree that it is an important metric for a managing editor; however, it needs to be mitigated by other metrics that are more within the editor's control. In most cases, though the majority is obviously dwindling, publications and readership are affected largely by conditions and persons not under direction of the editor.
As for the latter question: not everyone is motivated by the same thing; some take their satisfaction from the work itself.

Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
Assistant Copy Editor: Flashing Swords Magazine

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