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| SFReader Forums > Book, Magazine, and eZine Publishers > Editor's Roundtable > Credentials: how do you get bonafide? | Forum Quick Jump
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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva
      
Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1632
| Posted 5/27/2008 5:49 PM (GMT -4) |   |
Jordan Lapp said...
Polarizing language.
If an editor loves their work and the material they're working on, why wouldn't they jump at the chance to have more resources to get it in front of the public?
Obviously they would jump - unless they're too selfish, spent, or haven't the resources nor the availability of resources, or the resources to take care of said resources. And, frankly, the public sometimes has no taste for the best literary work. There's also the matter of freedom; who wants to be enslaved, even to his passions? Of course readership is a given goal. Of course it may be a benchmark of success.
So . . . there seems to be a division of classes among editors, then. Because I'm seeing a serious division here based on production and administration. Very few are good at both. The production-oriented editor should never take readership into consideration except to take it for granted, as he should be focused on the quality of the product. Conversely, the administrative editor is more involved in administration, marketing, planning, oversight, etc. The administrative editor has to constantly monitor readership and find ways to produce, increase, and maintain it. One depends on the other, depends on the one.
Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 2992
| Posted 5/27/2008 7:59 PM (GMT -4) | | MysticWino said...
So . . . there seems to be a division of classes among editors, then. Because I'm seeing a serious division here based on production and administration. Very few are good at both. The production-oriented editor should never take readership into consideration except to take it for granted, as he should be focused on the quality of the product. Conversely, the administrative editor is more involved in administration, marketing, planning, oversight, etc. The administrative editor has to constantly monitor readership and find ways to produce, increase, and maintain it. One depends on the other, depends on the one.
Interesting conversation to drop in on now and again - though I am glad tempers have calmed.
I agree with you both on this division of editorial responsibilities/capabilities - can even see it in myself. I wonder, though, in instances such as mine -- where I am definitely not taken with nor good at marketing, administrative oversight, etc., and neither am I 'good' at producing quality of product outside of quality content (no one will ever mistake me for a literary agent caught up on all the infinity of grammatical correctness that is almost as rotten as political correctness) -- where I really fall? If quality of product's content is allowed as the benchmark, I'm the production-oriented editor; yet I firmly believe one of the top gauges of the quality of that content is my audience/readership, thus that plants me firmly in the administrative editor role. So I'm back to saying what I wrote for you long ago, David - that the role of the editor is to fulfill his/her obligation/duty to his bosses - the bill payer, the reader, him/herself in that order, but by doing one, he/she should be doing all.
So what kind of editor is that one?
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz?
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crystalwizard
Forum Moderator
Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 4740
| Posted 5/28/2008 3:24 AM (GMT -4) | | von Darkmoor said...
I wonder, though, in instances such as mine -- where I am definitely not taken with nor good at marketing, administrative oversight, etc., and neither am I 'good' at producing quality of product outside of quality content (no one will ever mistake me for a literary agent caught up on all the infinity of grammatical correctness that is almost as rotten as political correctness) -- where I really fall?
You fall right where I stuck you. And you're doing a very good job in that position.
von Darkmoor said...
I'm the production-oriented editor; yet I firmly believe one of the top gauges of the quality of that content is my audience/readership, thus that plants me firmly in the administrative editor role.
That's what it means to be the managing editor, Jason. You also wear the other hats, that of acquisitions editor and copy editor, only because you haven't got much of a staff at the moment.
von Darkmoor said...
So I'm back to saying what I wrote for you long ago, David - that the role of the editor is to fulfill his/her obligation/duty to his bosses - the bill payer, the reader, him/herself in that order, but by doing one, he/she should be doing all.
Nonsense. Not unless he/she wants to.
von Darkmoor said...
So what kind of editor is that one? | | Back to Top | | |
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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva
Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1632
| Posted 5/28/2008 11:23 AM (GMT -4) | |
von Darkmoor said...
I agree with you both on this division of editorial responsibilities/capabilities - can even see it in myself. I wonder, though, in instances such as mine -- where I am definitely not taken with nor good at marketing, administrative oversight, etc., and neither am I 'good' at producing quality of product outside of quality content (no one will ever mistake me for a literary agent caught up on all the infinity of grammatical correctness that is almost as rotten as political correctness) -- where I really fall? If quality of product's content is allowed as the benchmark, I'm the production-oriented editor; yet I firmly believe one of the top gauges of the quality of that content is my audience/readership, thus that plants me firmly in the administrative editor role. So I'm back to saying what I wrote for you long ago, David - that the role of the editor is to fulfill his/her obligation/duty to his bosses - the bill payer, the reader, him/herself in that order, but by doing one, he/she should be doing all.
So what kind of editor is that one?
Sometimes the most difficult part can be to figure out what it is your boss expects from you . . . And, Jason, it's not very fair to ask me this question, is it? I'm naturally biased as part of the FSM staff and a part of RotS. [btw: found that old file of the FS Annual aborted that had many of the stories in it; I'm very glad to find that my familiarity with those stories was based on actual experience . . .] Anyway, back to the point, I would say that any editor with skills and savvy - and boss's permission - should do what s/he can for promotion of each project. It's when promotion takes precedence over production and quality management that the editor moves from workhorse to showhorse as it were. So much of it depends on what support you have. In the end, it comes down to doing what needs done. That, in my estimation, is the most valuable characteristic any editor can have - the perseverence, sometimes obssessive obstinance, to GET THINGS DONE. Whatever it is that needs done to continue his work and his skill-building. I think you found a lot of good support in your promo efforts wtih RotS. And you built good enough relationships with most of your authors to gain their loyalty, and thereby their invaluable support in promo/marketing efforts. Money can't buy that kind of ad support! As for your production skills, RotS stands up and testifies for itself.
Read me in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com
"The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." --Joseph Campbell
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 2992
| Posted 5/28/2008 1:19 PM (GMT -4) | | Your words are much appreciated, David. And I never meant to put you on the spot in your roles - I sincerely am always ready and willing to analyze what I do, my roles and aptitudes for them, my products and attempts to produce. So in otherwords, I was using you to decipher me - forgive my dastardliness, good sir!
As for your comments, Kelly, they are also much appreciated, though I must differ with you on one point. Why ever would you declare 'Nonsense' to my assertion an editor should fulfill that for which he/she was hired? To sell words? And not just any words, but the words for the targeted market? That's my job as I see it. To sell to readers what FSM and FSP sells: heroic adventure fiction, predominantly fantasy, with historical, space operetic, swashbuckling smatterings and somewhat pulpy overall. And if I do my job selling that consistently in quality and quantity, I fulfill my duty to boss, reader, and self, so that, by doing any single one of those I simultaneously do all. That's my stance on what I do, and I don't really see any other way to do it.
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz?
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jonesha
Adept
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 655
| Posted 5/28/2008 3:24 PM (GMT -4) | | I wouldn't worry much about certificates and accrediting. Product counts. So does reputation.
After being a professional technical book editor for some 12 years (and by that, I mean my editing was the sole way I was earning my living) I STILL had to take editing tests every time I applied for a new post with a new client. Everyone thinks that they can write, and everyone thinks that they can edit, and so it's hard to prove yourself. It'd be possible to create an organization and certificates, but I'd bet if I went to a publisher with one of those certificates and the publisher didn't know me I'd still have to take one of those annoying entry level copyediting tests. Professional editing isn't a glamour job.
My advice is, if you're working in this spec fic field, where there's no money but at the very, very top, make sure you're passionate about what you're doing and that you find the very best material you can lay hands on. Keep the quality high. Encourage the authors who you see with that spark and try to build a safe place for them to bring their work. Find people you can trust to work with. Make your public comments about editing and writing and the fiction you love and try to check all the other crap we shoulder around with us at the door. Be courteous and professional. Maybe, in the end, you'll have a rep that will open doors and bigger things will come. Maybe those things never will, but you'll be able to look back without shame at your own actions, and hold your head high.
Howard
Managing Editor Black Gate | | Back to Top | | |
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crystalwizard
Forum Moderator
Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 4740
| Posted 5/29/2008 2:04 AM (GMT -4) | | von Darkmoor said...
As for your comments, Kelly, they are also much appreciated, though I must differ with you on one point. Why ever would you declare 'Nonsense' to my assertion an editor should fulfill that for which he/she was hired? To sell words?
Because most editors aren't hired to sell words, Jason. They are hired to create a product out of words. Normally, the people that sell the words are the PR guys and the Sale's reps. You just happen to be working for a publishing house that can't afford to give you a budget to hire those sort of people for your staff so you're doing their jobs as well as your own.
von Darkmoor said...
And not just any words, but the words for the targeted market? That's my job as I see it. To sell to readers what FSM and FSP sells: heroic adventure fiction, predominantly fantasy, with historical, space operetic, swashbuckling smatterings and somewhat pulpy overall. And if I do my job selling that consistently in quality and quantity, I fulfill my duty to boss, reader, and self, so that, by doing any single one of those I simultaneously do all. That's my stance on what I do, and I don't really see any other way to do it.
You do an excellent job... jobs... and more than fulfill your duties, even if I do keep dumping extra work on you before you have a chance to come up for air. | | Back to Top | | |
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)
Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 2992
| Posted 5/29/2008 2:26 AM (GMT -4) | | | Ah, I see where we differ. You're right, this isn't like assembling and selling windows (and I've done both). An editor is not the sales force sweet-talking and pan-handling, yes; but neither is an editor as simply described as the assembler. Nope, not in this industry. In assembling windows, I was given my product by the purchasing agent who made choices in conjunction with the instruction of the plant manager under the guidance of the company owner and mission. As an editor, even though I am assembling a product, no one else is providing me a single product. I select my material. So that automatically invests me in it's sale far more than the window assembler is invested in his product. He's invested in the quality of its build, of the labor; an editor is invested in quality of labor AND quality of product, both of which he/she is directly responsible for: How qualified am I to select product and how qualified am I to prep product.
So yes, the editor is very responsible for 'selling' what his/her employer stands for. Without the editor (doing his/her job to the best of his/her ability), there is no product meeting the standards/requirements of the employer's target market; no quality control. So my job is to sell the words that FSP wants to deliver to its targeted readers. It doesn't matter if you had a whole sales force working the continent - they'd only be selling what I would give them. What I selected, what I cleaned up, what I decided was ready to put out - each and every one of those steps taken beneath the duty of meeting what should be the united goal of employer (publisher), market (reader), editor (self): me producing the words we promised the market we hand-picked.
Again, thanks for all the kind words and admissions that you over-work me  I may not be doing face-to-face selling, but I'm selling FSP just as much as any salesman would be.
It's like Howard points out - I should be striving to lay hands on the very best products I can, both for FSP and for the authors. Even for myself, if I wish to pursue this. Keep the quality high is an imperative for any editor - for he/she can certainly under-sell or sell-short a press; so by simply ensuring I do the opposite I sell the press. If I ever fail to meet the expectations of the market my employer wants targeted, I've failed.
So yes, get me that work force of sales folks whose task it is to convince the non-specifically targeted public to buy what FSP sells. That part ain't an editor's responsibility 
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz?
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crystalwizard
Forum Moderator
Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 4740
| Posted 5/29/2008 10:27 PM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva
Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1632
| Posted 5/30/2008 4:16 PM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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