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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva



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   Posted 1/28/2008 5:52 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

This is where the whole feedback loop comes into play. Unfortunately, the editor is as likely as not to be too busy reading subs to bother with either replying with that information or to even consciously decide what it was that got the story rejected. However, since we're talking requested change, the editor had some thought about it. So perhaps a reasonable and respectable (ask anyone else for details on how to manage that smilewinkgrin ) question would give you a better idea of how to approach it.

For me, the editing process has always worked best as a discussion. Also, if I'm reading subs on a regular basis, I've likely read 30-300 other works since I asked for that particular change. My focus and perspective are going to be very different today, and I may see that really weird, senseless scene of two weeks ago as the brilliant slapstick it is and merely want you to transition it better so that it provides comic relief without losing me or seeming shoved in there like a Bazooka Joe comic in a fortune cookie.

crystalwizard said...
Lyn said...
when I get editorial advice as a writer, I may not want to change something because that was the very thing I was trying to accomplish - the editor just didn't get it!


Or perhaps the editor got it, and didn't like it.


Read me soon in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com

Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com

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RHFay
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   Posted 1/28/2008 7:37 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Lyn said...
RHFay said: "From this point forward, I will use much more restraint in what I post on SFReader."

I say (tongue in cheek, just in case the it doesn't come across! lol): You dang better watch it, you blankity blank or I'll reach through the ether and smack you upside that dragon head of yours the next time you demonstrate one smidgen of a bit of lack of restraint.

Hey Lyn!  :p :p :p :p :p :p
 
Oh no, was that unrestrained?  Just kidding!  (I should change over to my little knight - he is helmeted for just such ether-crossing, head-smacking situations.) 
 
As for the serious discussion at hand - let me add a few more details to what I had said earlier about editors' "yeas" or "nays" regarding speculative poetry.  In my own personal experience with my recent submissions "blitz", I rarely get any suggestions to revise my speculative poetry.  Usually it's either an outright acceptance or rejection.  The rejections may include a few constructive criticism-type comments, but often they do not.
 
I've had a few editors work with me to create better pieces for their publications (or pieces that fit their personal tastes better), and had one or two places actually request a revision of a submitted speculative poem, but so far in my brief but intensive experience this has been the exception to the rule.
 
Could more editors of speculative fiction and poetry publications request revisions of submitted speculative poetry?  Perhaps, but there seem to be several that don't.
 
This is just my observation based on my own personal experience.  The experiences of others may differ from my own.  


"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!" Andrew of Armar.
 
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions 
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)



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   Posted 1/28/2008 8:11 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Personally, when it comes to poetry submissions, I don't edit. It is almost entirely 'as is' or not for me, for I view poetry as far more subjective an experience than I do a prose piece submitted, especially fiction. Nonfiction I would, of course, edit for accuracy and form as required, but in poetry and unless egregious in nature, I'd shy away from editorializing. If asked, or if I felt the urge to offer my suggestions as the author so desires, I will provide my observations, impressions, interpretations, reactions, and possible elaborations - purely out of a fellowship with the ideas/images the poet created within me. Mostly no different than if the poem in question were to be posted here, open to my opinion and commentary.

In my opinion, those submitting poetry should be most particular in selecting their markets. If I submit to a literary, prestigious, whatever publication that markets itself to the Schools of Literature, Education, and High Society, I'd better expect the editor to come crashing down on my self-described ballade that is only 9 lines and contains no rhyme of any sort and reject it without more words than a resounding 'NO!' - for I am in the wrong and should rightfully be expected to know better. Nor should I expect him/her to even offer to work with me.

On the other hand, I would be extremely surprised if the same publication were to accept, let alone offer to edit, the almost-perfectly crafted end-rhyme poem I submitted as well, for unless it were iambic and in x number of feet, etc, etc, they'd rather not publish that either. This particular poem may elicit a better worded rejection, however.

It's called knowing your market and trying to match your work to their target audience, their bread and butter. No potential CEO for Disney would appear at an interview in a mechanic's jumpsuit with grease all over his face and holding a broken alternator in his hands; nor would a mechanical engineer appear at his first job interview straight from college in a tuxedo and straw hat, carrying a picture album filled with concept sketches of all his ideas. Both of them would attempt to know their market and fit in to it.

Nothing more (or less) should be expected or accepted in the world of submissions.


~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Assistant Managing & Anthology Editor Flashing Swords Press
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard

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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva



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   Posted 1/28/2008 10:18 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Yes . . . BUT . . . here's the deal.

Any editor who sends a detailed critique does so for one of two reasons: s/he sees potential worth developing in the work and/or author; OR, s/he is trying to show off. Most don't have time to show off. If we take the time to comment, it's because we think there's something there worth commenting on. Sometimes we may rush through and not be very diplomatic, but our comments are usually meant to enrich the work.

I agree that the poetry markets are more specialized, but I don't think they're quite that intolerant. Especially if you deal first with the general 'literary' journals, as it is my experience that these journals are often edited and published by those who are a bit at odds with the Ivory tower and want a 'people's literature'. Something popular AND with literary quality. It's a bear working through them simply because there are so many markets. And Writers' Market online is not as functional as it used to be.


Read me soon in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com

Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com

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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)



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   Posted 1/28/2008 11:04 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And this, good friend,
Hermit said...

... but our comments are usually meant to enrich the work.

is what it is supposed to be all about.  If it's not, your opening question is moot.


~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Assistant Managing & Anthology Editor Flashing Swords Press
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard

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crystalwizard
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   Posted 1/29/2008 5:02 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hermit said...
Any editor who sends a detailed critique does so for one of two reasons: s/he sees potential worth developing in the work and/or author; OR, s/he is trying to show off. Most don't have time to show off. If we take the time to comment, it's because we think there's something there worth commenting on. Sometimes we may rush through and not be very diplomatic, but our comments are usually meant to enrich the work


True, but your question was how much of your advice do you expect to see taken. I send detailed comments/edits because I feel those are the things that the author might want to address. But I don't expect to see them take any of my suggestions. I hope they do, I'm happy that they do and I'm annoyed if I have to point out the same flaw multiple times, but I don't expect a author to take any of my advice.
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RHFay
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   Posted 1/29/2008 12:14 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Let me make another observation from the writer's perspective, again based on my own personal experience.

Concerning two different speculative poems and markets: I actually followed the revision suggestions gven to me by Cathy Buburuz of Champagne Shivers.  I didn't follow the rewrite suggestion made by Crystalwizard.  However, that doesn't mean I have less respect for CW than I do for Cathy Buburuz.  My reasons for either following revision suggestions or sending the piece elsewhere without revision are based solely on what I want to do with each individual piece.

There can be circumstances where an author may decide not to follow through on suggested revisions or rewrites, for many different reasons.


"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!" 
 
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions 
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Jordan Lapp
ppaL nadroJ



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   Posted 1/29/2008 12:28 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
love the new avatar, Richard!


Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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RHFay
Sage



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   Posted 1/29/2008 12:41 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jordan Lapp said...
love the new avatar, Richard!

Thanks, Jordan.  My little knight actually does work better than the dragon's head did.  He's armed with his sword, clad in his hauberk and helm, and cute, too.


"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!" 
 
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions 
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Firlefanz
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   Posted 1/29/2008 2:04 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
May I contact one of you about a slush reader's comments in private? I'd like help in deciding how to react to it, but don't want to lay out the whole case on the board, as I appreciate the magazine that's involved.


- Call me Firle.

Hannah Steenbock

Mystical Adventures
Sphaira

"Die arische Frau" in Pandaimonion - Die Formel des Lebens
"Der Weg nach Eridani" in Earth Rocks 3/2007 (pdf)

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Jordan Lapp
ppaL nadroJ



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   Posted 1/29/2008 2:06 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
We'll it depends if the magazine belongs to one of us :D


Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
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Firlefanz
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   Posted 1/29/2008 2:20 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As far as I know that particular magazine is not represented on SFReader. ;-)


- Call me Firle.

Hannah Steenbock

Mystical Adventures
Sphaira

"Die arische Frau" in Pandaimonion - Die Formel des Lebens
"Der Weg nach Eridani" in Earth Rocks 3/2007 (pdf)

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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva



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   Posted 1/29/2008 3:21 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

How long is the work that spawned the comment? I have a small chunk of schedule open. Would need both work and comments.

I'll have to warn you though, I merely feel honest today. Not brutal. Just honest. So if it's brutal honesty . . .


Read me soon in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com

Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com

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erazmus
Master



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   Posted 1/29/2008 5:55 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm not sure I'd volunteer for brutal honesty from anybody, simple honesty would seem suficent to the purpose.

Mike


Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
"Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html
"Morning Coffee" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/
"The Jewel Below" in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm
"Happy Landings" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/
"Teller of Tales" in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/

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crystalwizard
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   Posted 1/30/2008 2:41 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Firlefanz said...
May I contact one of you about a slush reader's comments in private? I'd like help in deciding how to react to it, but don't want to lay out the whole case on the board, as I appreciate the magazine that's involved.


You're welcome to contact me privately if you want.
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HTKuehl
Kaylee is watching you



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   Posted 2/1/2008 10:00 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As a writer, I make sure to acknowledge all advice that is given. If the advice makes sense then I'll go ahead and fix it. If it doesn't, or I don't like it, I say as much to the editor. I always make the attempt to show whatever editor that I am working with that I read their comments and consider them. After all, I'd like to think that they are looking out for my best interests. smilewinkgrin


 
**~**~Heather~**~**
 
"Learn to paint pictures with words." ~ Brian Jacques
 
"I never considered that I wouldn't make it. Ignorance is bliss sometimes. If I had known how hard it would be, I might have given up." ~ Kim Harrison
 
------------------------
 
Forthcoming: 
"Happily Ever After." Pen Pricks, Feb 2008.
"The Final Goodbye." Ruins Metropolis. Hadley Rille Books, 2008.
"Pluto: a Ghostly Planet With a Million Possibilities." The Drabbler Issue 10: Haunted Spaceports, Feb 2008
"Raising the Dead." Bewildering Stories: Issue 289, 2008
"The Date." FLASHSHOT, Feb 08, 2008

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