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kaolin fire
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   Posted 6/26/2008 12:51 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Any suggestions for helping authors promote magazines they wind up in? ;) I mean, sure, it's good to post links in blogs and whatnot... but what else? Better yet, how can the magazine help the author help their _friends_ promote? Without the author's friends being too tired of the author trying to promote whatever they happen to be in? :)


Greatest Uncommon Denominator Magazine - literary + genre fiction, poetry, art, and articles
(see our submission guidelines)

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RHFay
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   Posted 12/7/2007 11:59 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Hmm, maybe I'll try a villanelle when I get a chance.


"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!" Andrew of Armar.
 
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crystalwizard
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   Posted 12/6/2007 10:13 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RHFay said...

Actually, CW, I was talking specifically about my submission to The Willows. I sent them a poem when I sent them the illustration "Forest of the Damned". They liked the art, but didn't like the poem. The poem ended up getting a revised name and going to DemonMinds.


I knew you weren't talking about me :) I was just taking the opportunity to prod you.

RHFay said...

I've considered doing a ballade. I looked into the format, it looked interesting at first, but after a bit of experimentation I'm not sure if I truly like that particular form.[/quote

How about this form, then:
www.baymoon.com/~ariadne/form/villanelle.htm
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RHFay
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   Posted 12/6/2007 11:44 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
crystalwizard said...
You send me that ballade I asked you for and maybe I'll buy your poetry. I just don't want SFku.

Scifaiku and its derivative forms seem to be a hard sell at certain markets.  Some editors seem to like them, some don't.  That's okay, I'm somewhat flexible.

Actually, CW, I was talking specifically about my submission to The Willows.  I sent them a poem when I sent them the illustration "Forest of the Damned".  They liked the art, but didn't like the poem.  The poem ended up getting a revised name and going to DemonMinds.

I've considered doing a ballade.  I looked into the format, it looked interesting at first, but after a bit of experimentation I'm not sure if I truly like that particular form.  I'll have to find time to work on it some and see what I come up with.  Right now home school, my art, and family time have priority over a possible ballade.  It's on my potential "to-do" list, just not near the top.

Thus far, I have certainly received relatively more money for individual illustrations than I have for individual poems.
 
I certainly hope to send Flashing Swords some poems, and maybe a story or two, in the future.  I just need to find the time to come up with something.


"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!" Andrew of Armar.
 
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crystalwizard
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   Posted 12/5/2007 11:00 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RHFay said...
Dragon Angel said...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it is a bit easier for artists to be published in science fiction and fantasy then it is for authors. I suspect it is because there are fewer artists.

I think your thought may be correct. My experience thus far certainly indicates that art is easier to sell. I actually had one instance of a submission containing a poem with accompanying artwork where the poem was turned down, but the artwork was accepted!


There definitely seems to be more money in artwork than in poetry, anyway.



Still, an editor must see your work first. And your chances of success increase dramtically if a submission was solicited, which can only happen if an editor knows about your work already.


You send me that ballade I asked you for and maybe I'll buy your poetry. I just don't want SFku.


Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!



Managing Editor of Flashing Swords


Visit my art gallery on art wanted
All my books in print

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Constance
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   Posted 12/5/2007 7:16 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's also easier to assess artwork at a glance. It fits, it doesn't fit, it's exactly what we need, or it'll do. Poetry you actually have to read, think about, consider the theme of the poem, the theme of the issue (if applicable) and a hundred other minute details. It's brain intensive. Art you can often look at and go, "Brain munching aliens and space babes! Cool! I want it!"


Constance
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RHFay
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   Posted 12/5/2007 12:52 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dragon Angel said...
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it is a bit easier for artists to be published in science fiction and fantasy then it is for authors. I suspect it is because there are fewer artists.

I think your thought may be correct.  My experience thus far certainly indicates that art is easier to sell.  I actually had one instance of a submission containing a poem with accompanying artwork where the poem was turned down, but the artwork was accepted!
 
There definitely seems to be more money in artwork than in poetry, anyway.
 
Still, an editor must see your work first.  And your chances of success increase dramtically if a submission was solicited, which can only happen if an editor knows about your work already.


"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!" Andrew of Armar.
 
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Dragon Angel
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   Posted 12/4/2007 11:59 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it is a bit easier for artists to be published in science fiction and fantasy then it is for authors. I suspect it is because there are fewer artists.


read free fiction and poetry at http://www.geocities.com/davidolson22/index.html
 
Part dark, part light. And gooey in the middle.

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RHFay
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   Posted 12/4/2007 12:55 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
von Darkmoor said...
nice post as well, RHFay. Continued good luck to you!

Thanks to Flashing Swords, I think I will certainly have continued luck with my artwork.  I'm really excited to have the opportunity to do art for Flashing Swords.
 
And I'm not just saying that, I mean it.  The only problem is finding the time to do everything CW wants! smilewinkgrin
 
Publications can lead to other publications, but only if people know about your work.  Being published isn't good enough, people must read your writing, or see your artwork.  Editors can become interested in your work after seeing other work out there, but they must be aware of your work to begin with.
 
Published basically means made available to the public.  It doesn't mean made known to the public.  That's where self-promotion comes in.
 


"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!" Andrew of Armar.
 
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Laura Stamps
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   Posted 12/4/2007 8:41 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
crystalwizard said...
Laura, you ever thought of starting a marketing service?

Actually, I used to do that for many years, but it grew to the point where it was taking up as much time as a fulltime job, and I just can't work two fulltime jobs (which means I had no life...LOL).  So in 2003 I told all my clients I was "retiring" from marketing consulting. 
 
And I've stuck to it, only taking a few editing jobs up until 2005 to help out authors who pleaded with me to the point where I couldn't resist.  But I don't do editing anymore either, because I really only have the time to work fulltime with my own writing career and business.  Now I'm happy to just pass tips along to my writer friends when I come across something that works for me.
 
But thanks for asking!  :-)


Laura Stamps
Magickal Urban Fantasy Novelist
The Witches of Dixie: Book One of the Witchery Series
(ISBN: 978-0-9798413-0-9, 2007, Trytium Publishing, 245 pages)
Available at Amazon.com, BarnesandNoble.com, your local bookstore
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von Darkmoor
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   Posted 12/4/2007 2:04 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
nice post as well, RHFay. Continued good luck to you!


~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Anthology Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard

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Dragon Angel
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   Posted 12/4/2007 1:46 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nice artwork, btw. Reminds me of old tapestries for some reason.


read free fiction and poetry at http://www.geocities.com/davidolson22/index.html
 
Part dark, part light. And gooey in the middle.

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RHFay
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   Posted 12/4/2007 1:07 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Laura Stamps said...

...What does my day look like?  I get online at 6:00am every day and market until about 2:30pm.  Then I write, working on my current novel until 5:00pm.  I work fewer hours on Saturday and Sunday online, but I market online 7 days a week.  Yes, I do have a life...husband, house to clean, many many cats to care for.  I just schedule everything.  I once read where a writer said if you spend a lot of time marketing, your writing will suffer.  I don't agree with that.  I have found the time I spend marketing and networking with my readers definitely improves the quality of my writing, because I know exactly what they want from a novel and I can give it to them.  I also read novels in my genre (urban fantasy) every night after dinner.  I want to know what is being published in my market.  But I also must be able to talk with my readers about the books they love by other authors.  It all goes hand in hand now with the new marketing.  These people buy from me because they feel like I am their friend, not just some author "pimping" (I actually saw this term on one of the social networking sites *eek!*) her books...  

Just with my bit of poetry out there so far, I find that I spend more time with submitting and self-promoting on-line than I do actually composing and writing.  I've slowly started to make contacts with editors and other writers, even if it's just on forums like this.  I feel it's an important part of the overall picture.
 
My involvement on forums certainly inspired me to write a non-fiction article for Doorways magazine.  The non-fiction editor of Doorways posted her call for submissions on the Whispers of Wickedness forum, so I was inspired to answer the call.  I wouldn't have been inspired if I hadn't seen the forum posting about non-fiction articles.
 
My involvement in forums has also led to interest in my artwork.  I ran across Flashing Swords as a potential market through this very forum, and now I'm busy working on art for that publication.  This would have never taken place if I hadn't participated on the SFReaders forum, and posted about some of my recent illustration publications.
 
I post brags and self-promotions where I can, but I also try to become a part of the forum communities.  I just have to be careful not to butt heads with too many authors!  I have a tendency of speaking my mind, even if it's contrary to what many others think.
 
One thing that has helped me tremendously, at least in terms of my art, is my web site.  I've had a few editors who accepted my poetry peruse my site, and then suggest that I also submit art.  Perhaps I could have just submitted illustrations to begin with, but the web site definitely garnered some keen interest.  It led directly to my illustration in the current issue of Champagne Shivers, and more indirectly to the one in Aoife's Kiss.
 
The hard part is to find the time between home schooling my daughter, writing, and composing illustrations.  I try to squeeze in time on the forums in-between everything else.  However, I try to find the time because I feel it is an important part of developing my career.
 
Maybe I'll never turn this into a "real" career, but at least I will work as hard as I can in making something out of my writing and art.        



"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!" Andrew of Armar.
 
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crystalwizard
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   Posted 12/4/2007 12:51 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Laura, you ever thought of starting a marketing service?


Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!



Managing Editor of Flashing Swords


Visit my art gallery on art wanted
All my books in print

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Laura Stamps
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   Posted 12/3/2007 2:54 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

In the beginning I published all my poetry books and novels.  Now all my novels and most of my poetry books are published by other small press publishers, and I only publish my Collected Poems (Cats and Chrysanthemums) through my Kittyfeather Press company, which is a large book of over 200 pages.  That one I run out on my duplex printer, trim to book size, and coil bind.  But in the past I have also published smaller stapled poetry chaps and small novellas on my printer. 

BTW, my computer printer is a HP Laser Jet 1320.  Got it at Staples and LOVE it!  :-)

However, I should mention I also buy all of my books from those publishers and sell them through my Kittyfeather Press catalog.  Some of my customers prefer to buy my books this way, so their copies will be personalized by me.  I don't encourage this, because at this point in my career I like to send all my buyers to Amazon, B&N.com, and their local bookstores.  But also selling the books through my catalog gives my customers more options and gives me yet another source of income.


Laura Stamps
Magickal Urban Fantasy Novelist
The Witches of Dixie: Book One of the Witchery Series
(ISBN: 978-0-9798413-0-9, 2007, Trytium Publishing, 245 pages)
Available at Amazon.com, BarnesandNoble.com, your local bookstore
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Dragon Angel
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   Posted 12/3/2007 2:39 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Do you create your own poetry books, then?


read free fiction and poetry at http://www.geocities.com/davidolson22/index.html
 
Part dark, part light. And gooey in the middle.

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Laura Stamps
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   Posted 12/3/2007 2:30 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Thanks, Dragon Angel and Jason!!

Postcards have been mentioned in this thread, and I forgot to mention them in my other post.  It has been my experience, when it comes to book marketing, that good sales copy will sell many more books than a color photo of the cover.  A great cover grabs people in a bookstore or in a magazine ad, but when it comes to postcards the copy is what sells product.  Because of that I have never used color postcards to sell my books.  And most of my books have been sold through postcard mailings to my customer list and to rented mailing lists.

One of the best marketing investments a writer can make is in a laser printer for your computer that can do duplex printing, meaning it can print on both sides.  I design my postcards on Word, 4-up (4 to a page), run them through my computer printer on 67 pound cover stock, and trim them with a paper trimmer (also a great investment).  They just contain the ordering info for the novel, my contact info, and a blurb about the book.  Before 2005 I would drop several hundred postcards every week to my lists, and sold a lot of books that way.  Now with the new marketing I just mail postcards to my customer list twice a year.  I have sold as many as 3 different books on one postcard, and that worked well in the past and increased the $ amount of each order.  Something you can test with your own books.

I also design a 3-fold brochure flyer on Word and run them through my computer printer on color paper, printed on both sides.  This flyer contains ordering info for the novel, my contact info, blurbs from reviewers, a synopsis of the novel, and the first chapter of the novel.  I always carry a bunch of these novel flyers in my purse and hand them out all the time.  They sell a lot of books for me.  But I have also hired a new book marketing company now to distribute flyers for me.  I mentioned this company elsewhere in this forum...Bohemian Book Marketing (http://www.BohemianBookMarketing.blogspot.com).  Earlier this year I had hired a classified ad blaster for $35/month to place my book ads on 1000+ websites around the web every day.  That worked well for my SEO, but after 7 months of testing this strategy, I found book sales were minimal.  BBM distributes 100 flyers for me every month to bookstores and retail buyers in eastern Canada for $25/month.  I print the flyers on my computer and mail them to her.  The cost is almost the same as the ad blaster, but I started seeing sales the first month with BBM, so I am sticking with this strategy for now (grin). 

It goes without saying a duplex printer will also allow you to publish books of all sizes, from stapled chaps to coil-bound books.  In that case you would just need the appropriate bindery equipment, which I have and bought very inexpensvely at an office supply chain like Staples. 


Laura Stamps
Magickal Urban Fantasy Novelist
The Witches of Dixie: Book One of the Witchery Series
(ISBN: 978-0-9798413-0-9, 2007, Trytium Publishing, 245 pages)
Available at Amazon.com, BarnesandNoble.com, your local bookstore
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)



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   Posted 12/3/2007 12:26 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am equally impressed, Laura. Thank you for 'spreading the word,' it is most definitely appreciated.


~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Anthology Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard

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Dragon Angel
Lord Dragon



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   Posted 12/3/2007 12:17 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wow, Laura, Wow.


read free fiction and poetry at http://www.geocities.com/davidolson22/index.html
 
Part dark, part light. And gooey in the middle.

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Laura Stamps
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   Posted 12/3/2007 11:43 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Wow, great thread, Ed.  Thanks for starting it!  yeah

Hmm, where to start?  I have been a fulltime writer for almost 20 years now.  I started in this business by self-publishing, which is not unusual for a small press poet.  What is unusual is I majored in art in college and spent 10 years building a business as a painter selling my original paintings, notecards, postcards, posters, and prints of my art before I switched careers and became a writer.  That trained me in a mindset very different from most small press writers.  I saw my career as a business, and you learn really fast if you are going to survive fulltime as an artist that you must HUSTLE!  The galleries won't do it for you.  A few will, most won't.

I also think self-publishing is a fabulous way for a writer to start out.  So many advantages to that.  Mainly, it gives you a chance to build a market and make yourself know to readers and reviewers/editors.  That is important whether you plan to go with an agent and publisher later on.  Why?  Because they all want to know what is your marketing platform, who is your market, how big is it, etc.  If you don't know this stuff they probably won't be interested in you.

Up until 2005 the best way to sell books was through magazine ads, direct mail, and rented mailing lists.  I sold tons of books this way, staggering amounts every year, really, and built a customer list of 12,000 people that grew daily.  But in 2005 these strategies stopped working.  Why?  The internet.  So the last few years I have done tons of testing to find out how to make money selling books through the "new marketing" (which is what I call it). 

These days most of my income comes from royalties and sales from the 4 publishers (3 small press book publishers and 1 major art print publisher) who publish my books and poetry art prints.  Here's what I have learned.  Use direct mail sparingly and make sure what you are doing works, because postage is crazy expensive now and really cuts into your profits.  Retail buyers don't buy books cold now from an ad or a review.  They buy because one of their friends told them about the book and raved about it.  That is a big change from a few years ago.  That means building a presence in the blogging world, forums, Yahoo groups, and on social networking sites are the most important way an author can build an audience now and sell lots of books.  I have tested all kinds of web marketing the last year or so, mainly the kinds of tactics that would make me the most profit with the least amount spent.  Because profit is where you make your money (net sales) not gross sales.

What does my day look like?  I get online at 6:00am every day and market until about 2:30pm.  Then I write, working on my current novel until 5:00pm.  I work fewer hours on Saturday and Sunday online, but I market online 7 days a week.  Yes, I do have a life...husband, house to clean, many many cats to care for.  I just schedule everything.  I once read where a writer said if you spend a lot of time marketing, your writing will suffer.  I don't agree with that.  I have found the time I spend marketing and networking with my readers definitely improves the quality of my writing, because I know exactly what they want from a novel and I can give it to them.  I also read novels in my genre (urban fantasy) every night after dinner.  I want to know what is being published in my market.  But I also must be able to talk with my readers about the books they love by other authors.  It all goes hand in hand now with the new marketing.  These people buy from me because they feel like I am their friend, not just some author "pimping" (I actually saw this term on one of the social networking sites *eek!*) her books.  

I'm always testing, so (as my friends in the business know *grin*) the minute I test something that works really well I will spread the word!  

Happy bookselling! 


Laura Stamps
Magickal Urban Fantasy Novelist
The Witches of Dixie: Book One of the Witchery Series
(ISBN: 978-0-9798413-0-9, 2007, Trytium Publishing, 245 pages)
Available at Amazon.com, BarnesandNoble.com, your local bookstore
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)



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   Posted 11/30/2007 10:43 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
and I've used them for business cards for several organizations and personal use for years


~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Anthology Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard

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crystalwizard
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   Posted 11/30/2007 6:40 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Angeline Hawkes said...

Vistaprint.com has cool, nicely done products for very little money.


And their stuff is high quality, too. I've been taking advantage of their 1 free tee-shirt ads, and have gotten several tee-shirts with my book cover on the front for the price of shipping. Excellent quality in both the shirt and the printing on it.
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von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)



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   Posted 11/30/2007 12:05 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There has been quite a bit of beneficial information mentioned in this thread - great ideas from all!


~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Anthology Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard

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