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| SFReader Forums > Writing > Poetry > Question about horrorku/scifaiku | Forum Quick Jump
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Bitter Irony
Grammar Goddess and Spelling Sinner
      
Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 82
| Posted 3/19/2008 2:16 PM (GMT -4) |   | | To what extent, if any, must horrorku/scifaiku hold to modern haiku techniques and conventions?
Looking around this board, I see many 'ku holding to the old 5/7/5 myth: is this pattern still being held to by speculative 'ku? Most serious English haiku poets have abandoned that convention, or at least combined it with the fragment/phrase technique. I haven't seen to many fragment/phrase scifaiku. In fact, a surprising number seem also to be avoiding the "a-ha moment," using the last line to "explain" the image of the first two. Of all genres, one would like scifaiku would avoid this error!
Any other observations? Also, out of curiosity, would any poets on this board list haiku/tanka/other eastern forms as their poetry technique of choice? I'm not sure whether I'm unique or not in having an almost even split in publishing credits between speculative fiction and short form poetry.
P.S. And one more question: are "horrorku" and "scifaiku" their own plurals? (Do you have two horrorku the same way you have two haiku or tanka? Or is it two horrorkus?)
From even the greatest of horrors, Irony is seldom absent. ~H.P. Lovecraft, The Shunned House
And here I begin my foray into the dark and deadly waters of e-zine editing...
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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva
Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1570
| Posted 3/19/2008 3:55 PM (GMT -4) | | Intriguing questions. Actually, I think there's a debate over this very thing down in the non-active threads here.
First, permit me to speak to your last question: yes. Haiku is the singular and plural, as is tanka, as is senryu (sp?).
As far as convention . . . I loathe the piracy of the zen form and its consequent bastardization to fill-in-the-blank-ku. But that's a philosophical debate. And one many seem to prefer to avoid (myself included). I myself seldom count syllables, and what I produce when I do, as far as Eastern verse forms, is never with publication in mind. Not that I oppose it, just that it's more an exercise in brevity and concision for me than it is true crafting. I like to draw out my zen epiphanies a bit more . . .
How many spec fiction editors have serious training in poetry? Would that likely be a determining factor? The laity recognizes haiku as a 5/7/5 poem. But there aren't a lot of structuralists out cracking heads to keep people in line with forms these days. Sonnets seem to find acceptance even without the volta as much as haiku sans zen epiphany. Formalism is mostly out of vogue, but as with everything in this beautifully diverse world, you can always find a niche somewhere for it.
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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva
Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1570
| Posted 3/19/2008 4:21 PM (GMT -4) | | Okay. Let's play revisionist . . . 
Terror dulls senses
shadows rise, ambiguous
heart knows Death's approach
screaming, she bleeds long
prey to what she loved, she loves
death seduces still
These were posted on a hijacked thread down the way a bit. Let's see what we can do with them:
dark-dulled senses
shadow rising moonward
Death approaches
blood and shrieks
affection's object preys
Death seduces
soul in shadow
cloud veiled moon
Predator and prey
flesh breaks, bone torn
teeth, fur, scales, feral eyed
Moonlight on new blood
heart pounds thunder
teeth rend flesh pursued
tiger and dragon
Read me soon in The Return of the Sword! Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com | | Back to Top | | |
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RHFay
Sage
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1576
| Posted 3/19/2008 5:38 PM (GMT -4) | |
MysticWino said...
heart pounds thunder
teeth rend flesh pursued
tiger and dragon
By the way, I especially like this last one. Neat imagery of "tiger and dragon". I picture some sort of Far Eastern artwork with a stylized tiger and dragon rearing up all fangs and claws, ready to tear each other apart.
That's the picture that pops into my head, anyway. Maybe I'm just in a very visual mood lately.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva
Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1570
| Posted 3/19/2008 7:00 PM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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MattDempsey
Neophyte
Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 57
| Posted 3/19/2008 8:35 PM (GMT -4) | | Well there Haiku, Scifaku and Horrorku why not Cookoo.
dairy wedges
wafered, blistered on bread
peppered sauce
naked lady
basted and stuffed
gas mark 8
flour and water
salt, butter and love
but what filling? | | Back to Top | | |
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Thirdy Lopez
Adept
Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 802
| Posted 3/20/2008 6:37 PM (GMT -4) | |
Bitter Irony said... Also, out of curiosity, would any poets on this board list haiku/tanka/other eastern forms as their poetry technique of choice?
I wouldn't exactly call it my poetry technique of choice, but it is certainly one of the forms of poetry I've had much success with. My chapbooks JOLTS and SHOCKS (Sam's Dot Publishing) are collections of both horrorku and scifaiku. 
If I'm not mistaken, JOLTS received an honorable mention in E. Datlow's annual Best of... antho a few years back.
Aurelio Rico Lopez III aka "Thirdy" has had fiction featured in COLD FLESH (Hellbound Books), THE BLACKEST DEATH I, II, and III (Black Death Books), SPORTY SPEC: GAMES OF THE FANTASTIC (Raven Electrick Ink), STAR-SPANGLED ZOMBIE (Maniac Press), RAW MEAT (Sideshow Press), SHADOW BOX (Brimstone Press), TRIP THE LIGHT HORRIFIC (RAGE machine Books), DEAD MEN (AND WOMEN) WALKING (Bards and Sages), and THE BOOK OF SHADOWS VOL. I (Brimstone Press). His poems have appeared in Mythic Delirium, Star*Line, Dark Animus, Goblin Fruit, Scifaikuest, Electric Velocipede, Sybil's Garage, The Horror Express, Down In the Cellar, and elsewhere. | | Back to Top | | |
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Thirdy Lopez
Adept
Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 802
| Posted 3/21/2008 4:02 PM (GMT -4) | | Yeah. What Richard said. LOL!
Aurelio Rico Lopez III aka "Thirdy" has had fiction featured in COLD FLESH (Hellbound Books), THE BLACKEST DEATH I, II, and III (Black Death Books), SPORTY SPEC: GAMES OF THE FANTASTIC (Raven Electrick Ink), STAR-SPANGLED ZOMBIE (Maniac Press), RAW MEAT (Sideshow Press), SHADOW BOX (Brimstone Press), TRIP THE LIGHT HORRIFIC (RAGE machine Books), DEAD MEN (AND WOMEN) WALKING (Bards and Sages), and THE BOOK OF SHADOWS VOL. I (Brimstone Press). His poems have appeared in Mythic Delirium, Star*Line, Dark Animus, Goblin Fruit, Scifaikuest, Electric Velocipede, Sybil's Garage, The Horror Express, Down In the Cellar, and elsewhere. | | Back to Top | | |
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RHFay
Sage
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1576
| Posted 3/21/2008 8:11 PM (GMT -4) | | I agree with Mystic Wino. I have said previously that haiku in English is a sort of bastard form in and of itself because of the vast differences in language. The sound units in Japanese don't exactly correspond with English syllables, and vice-versa.
However, I also agree that each poem should be judged on its own merits. If a certain form seems to work for the poet and his/her readers, then why squabble over whether the form is truly this or that, or the bastard offspring of some strange union of forms? (Discussions like that may certainly have merit, but one should not ignore the greater picture.)
Haiku in English have become an accepted form of English poetry. Scifaiku and horrorku have become an accepted form of speculative poetry. What makes a specific poem a "proper" English haiku, or a scifaiku, or horrorku, may depend partly upon interpretation. However, there are certain trends and certain rules typical to these formats. Of course, artists are always breaking rules and making new ones.
Remember one thing about English in general - it is a bastard language. Over the years it has borrowed heavily from other languages. I see no reason why artforms using a bastard language shouldn't bastardise the artforms of other languages and cultures, as long as there is some artistic merit in doing so.
Languages and artforms both evolve, adapt, and adopt features from other languages and other artforms. It seems natural for them to do so.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva
Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1570
| Posted 3/26/2008 7:12 PM (GMT -4) | | | My wife and I took a short road trip this past Saturday. En route, we listened to a training tape for hotel employees. Chinese, German, French, and Italian were featured. It was a hoot! So much of the German and French were almost intuitive, and the Italian had the familiarity of sounding somewhat scientific. But the Chinese was very new. They enunciate in a different part of their anatomy . . . deeper in the throat and higher in the nose or something. There's so much variation in languages - and yet so many similarities. Fun stuff!
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RHFay
Sage
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1576
| Posted 3/27/2008 10:27 AM (GMT -4) | | |
Another note about language differences...
My maternal grandmother spoke English as a second language. Even though she was first-generation American born, her first language was Slovak. She actually spoke several languages to varying degrees (and would swear at my grandfather in Slovak when they fought).
One day my wife noted that my grandmother spoke English with a unique rhythm. She didn't speak English with any sort of accent, but if you listened really carefully, you could tell that it wasn't her first language, especially as she got older.
So, even with different Indo-European languages, you can have noticable differences in rhythm.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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