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| SFReader Forums > Book, Magazine, and eZine Publishers > Flashing Swords > Flashing Swords Issue #7 Is live! | Forum Quick Jump
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Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy
      
Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515
| Posted 8/16/2006 2:16 PM (GMT -5) |   | | | |
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Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy
Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515
| Posted 8/18/2006 12:35 AM (GMT -5) | | Anyway . . . I read Flashing Swords, link to it and Cat's Paw on my blog, bought PB stuff, submitted stuff, and talk it up. About all that's left is handing you money or working for you. I'm not well-off enough to do the first, but the latter . . . I believe you mentioned something on another thread about a possible anthology editor
***
Man, I love Pitch-Black supporters! Yes, we're looking for possible antho editors. And I am very much interested in pursuing new projects.
To wit: serials at Flashing Swords E-zine. Right now, we're not open to unsolicited serial subs for FS, but maybe I could open to Pitch-Black supporters, since they are, after all, the most likely to write something appropriate for FS given its mandate to help sell the print anthos.....
What do you all think of that idea?
Anyone have any ideas for serials they'd like to spring on me, for possible use at FS? I mean, if you *are* a PB supporter! LOl and you all *are* right?
Daniel
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Hunter327
Stablehand
Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 2
| Posted 8/19/2006 11:59 AM (GMT -5) | | | Nobody does barbarians as well as Shrewsbury. You people should see him give a reading. Unreal. His voice carries farther than a preacher and he BECOMES the character raving, swearing and thrashing. | | Back to Top | | |
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Gabe Dybing
Neophyte
Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 147
| Posted 8/20/2006 2:24 AM (GMT -5) | | So far I've read the first three offerings of this ish and have enjoyed them all.
Tarbox's story has been my favorite so far. This tale seems real - it's the little details she puts in. The dialogue is unforced. The horse seems alive. It's surprising that no one in the village suspects the priest - only our protagonist who hears of the fishiness concerning the priest's sudden appearance secondhand, but of course the village could have been under a spell that the protag breaks at the end (though, if this is the case, the story would be stronger if this had come out explicitly).
Berg's offering is enjoyable, as well, with twists that I didn't actually predict. But OF COURSE Set has to be the bad guy. I guess I didn't predict it BECAUSE he was such a slime. Good work, Berg. My favorite part of this story is when our protagonist leaps into the flame to get his enemy and then leaves his enemy in eternity. That's pretty badass returning to the castle all burnt up and bubbly. The death of the demon is pretty cool, too.
Shrewsbury's tale is good, as well. No major plot flaws, but I guess I agree with an earlier reader that the dialogue isn't always authentic-sounding enough. I think the use of the word "targeting" was mentioned. I also take issue with "lass." My Modern Oxford dict. assigns use of the word "lass" especially to Scottish, New England, or poetical peoples. Our Welsh protagonist doesn't belong to any of these groups. THE STORY IS GOOD, HOWEVER. Historical fiction is tough to write, which is why, according to one essay I read, R. E. Howard wrote little of it - it takes too long for a pulp writer who must produce quickly for a decent paycheck. To make historical fiction authentic, it takes a lot of research, which takes a lot of time.
The bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
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Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy
Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515
| Posted 8/20/2006 9:33 AM (GMT -5) | | | | |
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Gabe Dybing
Neophyte
Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 147
| Posted 8/22/2006 9:13 PM (GMT -5) | | Nathan, I think I should say why your piece was so "convincing."
1. Language. I've been reading the Icelandic sagas recently (and have some of the viking in my blood, as well - I'm named after my great-grandfather who, at age 18, came to America and started a family). Your terminology all seemed to be accurate. It seemed you had done your research, though when you mentioned some people who worshiped "Ymir," I wondered if it was supposed to be Viking fantasy in an alternate world. HAVE you found traces of Ymir-worship? I'm curious. It certainly doesn't hurt the story, by the way, if you made it up. It actually makes a lot of sense. What the hell was happening in Scandinavia before the Middle Ages? We don't know. It's a perfect landscape for the fantasist.
2. This is most important. I really SAW the landscape. There was something about your descriptions that had me there - the ridges, the icefloes. Normally, even when I read really good writers, I have only a vague sense about the landscape. Yours was vivid, but maybe it was because of my own ancestry and all the reading I've done on the subject, and all the times I've watched THE 13TH WARRIOR.
Barb - all your details were great, as well. I really "saw" your story, too. It just now occurred to me that maybe I shouldn't be so candid on this forum - you're all going to get the chance to read deeply my offering to FLASHING SWORDS next month. I'm ready for yall to uncover some errors and inconsistencies.
The bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
"The Demon Sword" appears in Flashing Swords #8
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nathan
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2122
| Posted 8/22/2006 9:23 PM (GMT -5) | | Gabe on Ymir:
Ymir
by Micha F. Lindemans
In Norse mythology, Ymir is the primordial giant and the progenitor of the race of frost giants. He was created from the melting ice of Niflheim, when it came in contact with the hot air from Muspell. From Ymir's sleeping body the first giants sprang forth: one of his legs fathered a son on his other leg while from under his armpit a man and women grew out.
The frost kept melting and from the drops the divine cow Audumla was created. From her udder flowed four rivers of milk, on which Ymir fed. The cow itself got nourishment by licking hoar frost and salt from the ice. On the evening on the first day the hair of a man appeared, on the second day the whole head and on the third day it became a man, Buri, the first god. His grandchildren are Odin, Ve and Vili.
Odin and his brothers had no liking for Ymir, nor for the growing number of giants, and killed him. In the huge amount of blood that flowed from Ymir's wounds all the giants, except two, drowned. From the slain body the brothers created heaven and earth. They used the flesh to fill the Ginnungagap; his blood to create the lakes and the seas; from his unbroken bones they made the mountains; the giant's teeth and the fragments of his shattered bones became rocks and boulders and stones; trees were made from his hair, and the clouds from his brains. Odin and his brothers raised Ymir's skull and made the sky from it and beneath its four corners they placed a dwarf. Finally, from Ymir's eyebrow they shaped Midgard, the realm of man. The maggots which swarmed in Ymir's flesh they gave wits and the shape of men, but they live under the hills and mountains. They are called dwarfs.
VIEW IMAGE"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
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nathan
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2122
| Posted 8/22/2006 9:34 PM (GMT -5) | |
Gabe Dybing said...Nathan, I think I should say why your piece was so "convincing." 1. Language. I've been reading the Icelandic sagas recently (and have some of the viking in my blood, as well - I'm named after my great-grandfather who, at age 18, came to America and started a family). Your terminology all seemed to be accurate. It seemed you had done your research, though when you mentioned some people who worshiped "Ymir," I wondered if it was supposed to be Viking fantasy in an alternate world. HAVE you found traces of Ymir-worship? I'm curious. It certainly doesn't hurt the story, by the way, if you made it up. It actually makes a lot of sense. What the hell was happening in Scandinavia before the Middle Ages? We don't know. It's a perfect landscape for the fantasist. 2. This is most important. I really SAW the landscape. There was something about your descriptions that had me there - the ridges, the icefloes. Normally, even when I read really good writers, I have only a vague sense about the landscape. Yours was vivid, but maybe it was because of my own ancestry and all the reading I've done on the subject, and all the times I've watched THE 13TH WARRIOR.
Read Eaters of the Dead by Micheal Crigheton on which 13th Warrior was based -- and followed very closely, if you haven't. This particular story was in the queue at FS awhile ago.
I read the Icelandic Sagas again after reading Eaters of the Dead. Crieghton (sp) is a consumate researcher. One of his lines (a throw away bit of historical color) made me sit up and re-examine the whole way I looked at who vikings were and their culture. The line was basically that their monetary system was based on women like ours used to be based on gold standard or Plains Indians on horses.
I was stunned by the implications of that and what 'normal' and 'hero' would mean for such a harsh, predatory culture. I then read the Icelandic Sagas (grim in themselves) with this 'fresh' light.
This concept of 'noble barbarian' seemed bitterly ironic in modern terms as it is meant by vikings. It was honorable to duel but it was just as honorable to murder by trickery. They tortured, raided, raped were ritual cannibals at times and yet were such physically couregeous specimens we still view them as heroes in our own sense of the word.
I'm rambling as I'm a bit of a history dork, lol. But I do look forward to Demon Sword.
VIEW IMAGE"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
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Gabe Dybing
Neophyte
Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 147
| Posted 8/22/2006 10:31 PM (GMT -5) | | "That men sallied forth to raid for gold and women was hardly unknown in this age when men worshiped such grim gods as the frost giant Ymir, or Crom Cruaich, the Lord of the Mounds."
- "The Blood Price," Nathan Meyer
nathan reported...Odin and his brothers had no liking for Ymir, nor for the growing number of giants, and killed him. [etc.]
Yes, yes, but I'm talking about the WORSHIP of Ymir. Of course, Norse worship probably looks a lot different than what we in the 21st century think of, but I'm asking - did Scandinavian peoples actually WORSHIP Ymir? Their Gods are Odin and his ilk - Ymir and some of the more manageable-sized Giants are the enemies of these people's gods.
What makes sense to me, and what I thought you had done, is to speculate that in these prehistorical Scandinavian times there were tribes that worshiped Ymir and perhaps other giants as well as the tribes that followed Odin and his jarls.
Thanks for the bigger story on the women as currency thing, Nathan. I actually had never known that (though of course some of the texts I've read on Norse mythology have come from secondhand bookstores, are old, and hence seem pretty fuddy-duddy - wait! I gotta quote this part for you! You'll love it, especially with the way you've uncovered how the Norsemen really felt about their women ----- :
WE GOTHS ARE A CHASTE RACE
It has been said at the outset that we Goths are a chaste race, and abhor the loathsome nudity of Greek art. We were a chaste people before our fathers came under the influence of Christianity. The Elder Edda, which is the grand depository of the Norse mythology, may be searched through and through, and there will not be found a single nude myth, not an impersonation of any kind that can be considered an outrage upon virtue or a violation of the laws of propriety; and this feature of the Odinic religion deserves to be urged as an important reason why our painters and sculptors should look at home for something wherewith to employ their talent, before they go abroad; look in our own ancient Gothic history, before going to ancient Greece.
- R.B. Anderson, Norse Mythology, no copyright date, but the preface is from 1875
And thanks for the book recommendation, Paul. The little I've read of Drake's has been enjoyable to me. Vikings in power armor? Hell, yeah!
The bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
"The Demon Sword" appears in Flashing Swords #8
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James Enge
Maker
Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 209
| Posted 8/23/2006 1:15 AM (GMT -5) | | "Crieghton (sp) is a consumate researcher. One of his lines (a throw away bit of historical color) made me sit up and re-examine the whole way I looked at who vikings were and their culture. The line was basically that their monetary system was based on women like ours used to be based on gold standard or Plains Indians on horses."
Crichton has his points as a storyteller and a researcher, but he's wrong about this. The economy of medieval Scandinavia wasn't a system with currency, like ours, so saying it was "based on" some commodity misconceives what was going on. Stuff was money, and money was stuff: i.e. anything they could carry off and exchange for something else. This includes people, of course (male or female), but slavery and piracy were not unique to the vikings, nor did they traffic exclusively in women.
Look at the career of Gudrun from Laxdaela Saga (to take just one example). She tricks her husband into a situation that allows her to dump him, and she gets half of what he owns out of the divorce (because she had a very advantageous pre-nup). She's not a likeable character (like Signy, another hard-hearted woman from the sagas), but she's clearly not anybody's property.
JE | | Back to Top | | |
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nathan
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2122
| Posted 8/23/2006 1:51 PM (GMT -5) | |
James Enge said...
Crichton has his points as a storyteller and a researcher, but he's wrong about this. The economy of medieval Scandinavia wasn't a system with currency, like ours, so saying it was "based on" some commodity misconceives what was going on. Stuff was money, and money was stuff: i.e. anything they could carry off and exchange for something else. This includes people, of course (male or female), but slavery and piracy were not unique to the vikings, nor did they traffic exclusively in women.
Look at the career of Gudrun from Laxdaela Saga (to take just one example). She tricks her husband into a situation that allows her to dump him, and she gets half of what he owns out of the divorce (because she had a very advantageous pre-nup). She's not a likeable character (like Signy, another hard-hearted woman from the sagas), but she's clearly not anybody's property.
JE
Let me back track slightly then go ahead and defend my statement. I'm writing loosely for the purpose of conversation in this thread. That is I'm paraphrase and emphasing certain points as 'new' to my view that exist on an equal plane with other points.
One of the points is that vikings had a strong sense of "us" & "them" -- viking women are not Goth women or Frank women or Pict women or Celtic women or ect, ect. You find many examples of strong norse women in the Sagas. Norse women were free women in a great sense. Gudrun has nothing to do with slave girls in a viking legal system. No more than she would with a stolen horse, a trunk full of old Roman coins or some nice Irish wool.
Those "them" women like horses, weapons, coins, cloth or whatever were goods. However what forms a base line? In trade it is fluid. One day an ax might mean more to you than a horse or a bolt of cloth, etc. However certain items have a higher base line value than others. Among Plains Indians it was horses. Among vikings Cri was saying it was female slaves. However female slaves taken from the "them" is not the same as the female norse "us" though life was still rough.
Whether slavery & piracy is 'unique' to vikings or whether they traded 'exclusively' in women is a little strawman: no one said that, nor does it matter for a system of a hierarchy of goods if a man who was 'selling' 6 Saxon women was also selling some Greek plates and Hun saddles.
The vikings were slavers.
VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
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nathan
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2122
| Posted 8/23/2006 2:06 PM (GMT -5) | | Gabe I see what you are saying. This is the conclusion I came to from my reading and then extrapolaited out for the story -- note: the Crom worship line was meant to establish 'era' of age and not vikings in the specific.
I refer to Tyr (for example) as First God of War. Not because he's A#1 among the Asgard pantheon but because he was the first god worshiped as icon of war -- later surplanted by Odin for a reason I've never found, since their related. The Odin pantheon solidification can I think (from my extrapolation of reading) be likened to Christian and Pagan beliefs. Before Odin was "cannonized" in the structure that mirrors the Greek system, there was an older, more animist innfluenced and looser "pagan" way. In that looser way men 'called out' to Ymir because he was powerful (perhaps in an earthquake or a storm or what have you) and men 'swore' by him as in oaths.
I think the Greek god structure (as I understand) of the Asgard pantheon evolved as the norse became more unified in culture. J | |
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