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WRJames
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   Posted 6/10/2007 1:44 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, as a writer of "erotic" science fiction I've certainly found this thread interesting and amusing.   It's been a very long time since I was 20, but I certainly remember my freshman year of college as being one of sexual obsession (my roommate's girlfriend kept a diary where she recorded the number of times they had sex each day -- record was seven and a half).  After that, up to the time of my marriage a few years later, I think that romantic complications began to supercede pure sexual thoughts -- and that's true for the characters in my novels as well. 
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xiaotien
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   Posted 6/10/2007 1:50 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
how do you have sex half a time?


cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
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Jeff Stehman
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   Posted 6/10/2007 2:18 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
One of them slept through it?


--Jeff Stehman

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erazmus
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   Posted 6/10/2007 6:41 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
xiaotien said...
how do you have sex half a time?

I'd guess that you'd either;
start something you couldn't finish (like havig half a desert) or
Start something that lapped the calender, the second half going on tomorrows count or
One has sex without the other (I grew up during the sexual revolution, in Califoria, so sue me . . .)
Mike


Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php

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erazmus
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   Posted 6/10/2007 6:44 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Or . . .
you started something that you thought was sex, but it turned out you were wrong.
Mike


Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php

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WRJames
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   Posted 6/10/2007 9:32 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
xiaotien said...
how do you have sex half a time?

After seven?  Use your imagination.
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xiaotien
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   Posted 6/10/2007 11:12 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
WRJames said...
xiaotien said...
how do you have sex half a time?

After seven?  Use your imagination.
my imagination feels tired and chaffed.
 
rofl  


cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
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WRJames
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   Posted 6/11/2007 12:21 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
xiaotien said...
WRJames said...
xiaotien said...
how do you have sex half a time?

After seven?  Use your imagination.
my imagination feels tired and chaffed.
 
rofl  

Remember -- this was first year in college.  Actually, it might have been six and a half.
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erazmus
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   Posted 6/11/2007 12:38 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Leave it to college students to make an endurance event out of sex.

But what is a good, middle-of-the-road approach to sex in a novel? I've read books with too much sex, no sex and enough sex, but it seems that enough for me is too much for some, and too much for me isn't enough for others. Is there a range for "just right"? Allowing that sex isn't driving the plot, when it does you naturally enough will have a lot of sex in that book.

Mike


Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php

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WRJames
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   Posted 6/11/2007 1:24 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
erazmus said...
Leave it to college students to make an endurance event out of sex.

But what is a good, middle-of-the-road approach to sex in a novel? I've read books with too much sex, no sex and enough sex, but it seems that enough for me is too much for some, and too much for me isn't enough for others. Is there a range for "just right"? Allowing that sex isn't driving the plot, when it does you naturally enough will have a lot of sex in that book.

Mike

In my case, I didn't, in the beginning, set out to write an "erotic" novel.  But probably my own tastes in what I like to read drove me that direction.  Too many novels have characters that aren't believable because they never need to use the bathroom, never have sex, etc.  Maybe you would not be interested in reading about details like that, but to me it's part of describing a total person.


My books on Mobipocket
 
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xiaotien
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   Posted 6/11/2007 1:52 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
erazmus said...
Or . . .
you started something that you thought was sex, but it turned out you were wrong.
Mike


this could make for good
speculative fiction? haha!!

as for how much sex is enough sex
in your novel--whatever makes you feel
happy when you read / write it.

as you said, everyone is different,
so you can only write to please yourself
in that aspect.

i can't remember ever reading a male
author write a sex scene until recently,
an old out of print book called the devil
wives of li fong.

and i thought, whoa, this guy is writing
about sex, it was that "novel" to me.
he did it well. but it makes me realize how
rare it is among the books i read by men to
find da sex in the novel.

i don't see why there is a stigma there.
everyone knows guys think about sex,
so now they can't write about it? odd.


cindy p.
a little sweet, a little sour.
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WRJames
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   Posted 6/11/2007 2:37 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
xiaotien said...
erazmus said...
Or . . .
you started something that you thought was sex, but it turned out you were wrong.
Mike


this could make for good
speculative fiction? haha!!


Or -- it might be half-assed


My books on Mobipocket
 
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Anthony G Williams
Greybeard



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   Posted 6/11/2007 5:12 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think that relevance is the key issue. To take an SF extreme, Flesh (P J Farmer?) is all about a guy who is given a massive injection of sex hormones to act as a breeder, so he screws his way around the planet. You can hardly avoid it there. But IMO there's no point in inserting such scenes where they don't belong, it just detracts from the story.
 
I included no sex scenes at all in my first novel - it would have been entirely irrelevant and inappropriate to the story - but two (decidedly non-explicit) in my second, because they were relevant and important.
 


Tony Williams
Scales (2007)
The Foresight War (2004)
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk


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erazmus
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   Posted 6/11/2007 3:39 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well,
I like to say that my main character's sex life is her buisness, but as that is a statement of fact-- she makes a living as a web-cam girl, some sexual content seems inevitable. I have one fairly graphic scene and a lot of camera fades, because usually the sex doesn't happen until the plot slows down and a (pardon the phrase) blow-by-blow account seems inappropriate. But in my recent reading I've noticed that this is a fairly male approach. Charline Harris has a lot more graphicly depicted sex than I do, often in places I'd have left it out.

The difference is her constant romantic subplots, which lend an importance to the sex that my footloose and free wanton slut of a mercinary doesn't have, usually. Is it just more okay to give details when the sex is more important to the character then? I've read a lot of novels, with authors of both genders, which have plenty of sex in them but I don't seem to have developed a good standard for when to g how far, and so I suspect I err on the side of caution.

Mike


Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php

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BethS
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   Posted 6/11/2007 7:42 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
erazmus said...
Well,
I like to say that my main character's sex life is her buisness, but as that is a statement of fact-- she makes a living as a web-cam girl, some sexual content seems inevitable. I have one fairly graphic scene and a lot of camera fades, because usually the sex doesn't happen until the plot slows down and a (pardon the phrase) blow-by-blow account seems inappropriate. But in my recent reading I've noticed that this is a fairly male approach. Charline Harris has a lot more graphicly depicted sex than I do, often in places I'd have left it out.

The difference is her constant romantic subplots, which lend an importance to the sex that my footloose and free wanton slut of a mercinary doesn't have, usually. Is it just more okay to give details when the sex is more important to the character then? I've read a lot of novels, with authors of both genders, which have plenty of sex in them but I don't seem to have developed a good standard for when to g how far, and so I suspect I err on the side of caution.

Mike

 
Fwiw, I think sex scenes fall under the same rules as any other scene:  they need to have a reason to be. They must further the plot, deepen conflict, and/or develop character, or else they belong offstage.
 
~Beth
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Nicholas
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   Posted 6/12/2007 1:30 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Erazmus said...
 I have one fairly graphic scene and a lot of camera fades, because usually the sex doesn't happen until the plot slows down and a (pardon the phrase) blow-by-blow account seems inappropriate. But in my recent reading I've noticed that this is a fairly male approach. Charline Harris has a lot more graphicly depicted sex than I do, often in places I'd have left it out.
Damn, Mike, you got me thinking all psychological now. Several readers have noted that the more detailed, explicit sex tends to appear in female writers, whereas male writers are more apt to use the "camera fade." I'm thinking now about what all the pop psychologists say about differences in gender attitudes toward sex: men more often tend to think of it as a pleasurable physical act, women more often attach greater emotional significance to it (this is a blanket overgeneralization, of course--I've seen it cut both ways). But perhaps there is something of this at work here: a female writer may be more apt to consider the sex act itself as a significant emotional core of the plot, whereas a male writer will consider it inconsequential to the plot (maybe not the act itself but the details of the act) and thus be more likely to have it occur "offstage." For a writer like Charline Harris, the graphic depiction of the sex is as significant to her as, say, the blow-by-blow details of a fight scene in a story by one of us male S&S writers. We've all heard the critic who says, "Why all the graphic detail of the violence--why not just say, they fought, and at the end of it, so-and-so was dead and so-and-so was alive?" Our answer, of course, is that the details of the fight are core to the type of story we're telling. Charline would likely say the same thing about her sex.


http://ozment.livejournal.com
 
 

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MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva



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   Posted 6/12/2007 4:37 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I was a fiend in my teens.

And twenties.

Into my thirties.

Now I prefer scotch - and tend to think much more about scotch.

In my twenties, I used to tell my friends a bottle was a poor substitute for a woman. Early thirties the girls were poor subsititutes for the bottle.

But in my teens, everything was about sex. How to get it. How to keep it. How to do it. I was raised funny, though, and had really strange ideas about love and commitment and all that. My parents, especially my mother, razed me to respect women to the point of worship. I put them so high on a pedestal that I was always jumping at them like a lapdog. I learned to write poetry for the sake of winning love (and therefore sex). I was sensitive to win love (and thereby sex). I was macho to win affection (and sex). Sometimes a rogue, sometimes gentleman, always a wannabe casanova. Problem was, I linked sex and romantic love so completely that I realized them (incorrectly) to be the same. And I always thought about sex, whether as a goal in itself or as the reward that came with winning the princess.

I'm really thirsty for that scotch now.

And if I'm taking the time to visualize the sex act, I'm usually too preoccupied to push keys. . . . I far prefer innuendo. And, I'm a leg man from way back (first time I learned what gravity does to the top :p ).


Exile of my own dull vice. . .

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WRJames
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   Posted 6/12/2007 8:53 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nicholas said...
Damn, Mike, you got me thinking all psychological now. Several readers have noted that the more detailed, explicit sex tends to appear in female writers, whereas male writers are more apt to use the "camera fade." I'm thinking now about what all the pop psychologists say about differences in gender attitudes toward sex: men more often tend to think of it as a pleasurable physical act, women more often attach greater emotional significance to it (this is a blanket overgeneralization, of course--I've seen it cut both ways). But perhaps there is something of this at work here: a female writer may be more apt to consider the sex act itself as a significant emotional core of the plot, whereas a male writer will consider it inconsequential to the plot (maybe not the act itself but the details of the act) and thus be more likely to have it occur "offstage."

 
Interesting  -- I'm definitely a male writer (a straight one, even, unlike most of my characters) -- but I write sex scenes exactly the way you describe the women doing it -- concentrating more on the emotional consequences than the physical details (but definitely without camera fades).   I guess I'm like BH, sex and love are hopelessly intertwined, and it's my characters hearts that get them into trouble, not their genitalia.


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