SFReader.com : Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror Book Reviews & more      SFWatcher.com : Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror Movie Review



  Home | Log In | Register | Calendar | Search | Help
   
SFReader Forums > SFReader > Anything Goes! > Was the Bible the world's first science fiction/fantasy book?  Forum Quick Jump
 
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Oldest Post First ]

Anthony G Williams
Greybeard



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 396
  		   Posted 5/9/2008 8:46 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Depends on how you define SFF, I suppose. I recall reading of one "alternate history/what if" story which goes back about 2 millennia.
 
However, Wiki identifies the 17th century as the time when SFF got going in a recognisable form.
 
 

Tony Williams
Scales (2007), The Foresight War (2004)
Homepage: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk

SFF Blog: http://sciencefictionfantasy.blogspot.com/


Back to Top
 

Jordan Lapp
ppaL nadroJ



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2530
  		   Posted 5/9/2008 5:19 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The first novel in the English language, according to my English prof was Oroonoko in 1688, so if we're talking novels, it would have to be later than that.

Jordan Lapp
Managing Editor
Back to Top
 

SJHigbee
Neophyte



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 101
  		   Posted 5/9/2008 5:16 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So... if the Bible isn't the first true sci-fi fantasy book to have ever been written - what was? Maybe "Gulliver's Travels" by Jonathan Swift is a candidate????

www.sjhigbee.com

Back to Top
 

SJHigbee
Neophyte



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 101
  		   Posted 5/8/2008 10:50 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
southernweirdo says "...Jules Verne and H.G. Wells in the science fiction sections... even though a lot of what they wrote about that seemed fantastic during their time is true today."

Absolutely. Surely that's the point? In order to be regarded the the 'first' sci-fi/fantasy storyteller you have to be knowingly weaving an imaginery world. People writing the Bible, telling tales of Egyptian, Greek, Norse or any other pantheon of fantastic gods believed they were telling the truth, often in order to explain natural occurances, such as flood, thunderstorms, etc.

www.sjhigbee.com

Back to Top
 

southernweirdo
Neophyte



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 94
  		   Posted 5/7/2008 11:06 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Then again, suppose somebody wrote something intended as a sci-fi work three hundred years ago, and by now everything that was in it has become not only plausible, but pedestrian. Would it still be considered sci-fi?

Interesting thought, but I'd have to say it would still classify as sci-fi. We still find Jules Verne and H.G. Wells in the science fiction sections in a lot of libraries/bookstores even though a lot of what they wrote about that seemed fantastic during their time is true today.

Southern Fried Weirdness
 
Back to Top
 

Nathan Jerpe
Acolyte



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 216
  		   Posted 5/7/2008 9:15 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oooh...didn't know that about The Road. It just moved up a few slots on my To Read list.

http://roguelikefiction.com

Back to Top
 

Swashbuckler
One-man sword-and-sorcery machine



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1227
  		   Posted 5/7/2008 4:10 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nathan Jerpe: Interesting conundrum! I'd have to say yes, it still would be considered as science fiction -- and probably as a shining example of science fiction at its predictive best. I'm sure the science fiction fans would be loathe to have such a book suddenly regarded as "not science fiction" just because it happened to be right on the money, much the way science fiction fans often are upset that books like McCarthy's "The Road" aren't considered science fiction even though the theme is clearly science fiction.

Steve Goble

Visit my blog, Swords Against Boredom, for news on published fiction and upcoming stories.

Back to Top
 

Nathan Jerpe
Acolyte



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 216
  		   Posted 5/7/2008 11:37 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
southernweirdo said...
...but, for the most part, they were all taken seriously as fact by the authors and readers at that time and place. It's not like a science fiction or fantasy novel today...
Even more interesting, perhaps, is your implication that whether or not a piece is declared sci-fi/fantasy depends on the author's intention. If the author is intending to record facts or accurately document history, I think it is harder to argue it is a work of sci-fi.
 
Then again, suppose somebody wrote something intended as a sci-fi work three hundred years ago, and by now everything that was in it has become not only plausible, but pedestrian. Would it still be considered sci-fi?

http://roguelikefiction.com

Back to Top
 

Swashbuckler
One-man sword-and-sorcery machine



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1227
  		   Posted 5/6/2008 4:44 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Of course, the majority of the people in the cultures that produced the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Egyptian mythologies (or Norse mythologies, or American Indian mythologies, or Hindu mythologies ...) likely believed those tales to be true, rather than "fantasy" stories. Those tales may read like fantasy stories to modern humans, but I don't think the people of the times and places involved thought of them as such.

Still, I read "Gilgemesh" as pretty much a sword-and-sorcery story and enjoyed it as such.

Steve Goble

Visit my blog, Swords Against Boredom, for news on published fiction and upcoming stories.

Back to Top
 

MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1565
  		   Posted 5/6/2008 4:42 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
what about the Rhyamayana?

Read me soon in The Return of the Sword!
Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com
Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org
Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com

Back to Top
 

RHFay
Sage



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 1550
  		   Posted 5/6/2008 4:29 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MichaelEhart said...
The Epic of Gilgamesh was written down at least 700 years before the Bible, so no, even by stretching the standards.
I do claim that Gilgamesh, and the attendant Tale of the Deluge are the first S&S stories.

I agree with Michael.  The Epic of Gilgamesh is about as far back as tales go.  Then you have Egyptian mythology, too.  Gods with the heads of an ibis, falcon, cat, lion, hippo, and jackal - that's pretty fantastical if you ask me!

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!" 
 
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions 
Back to Top
 

SJHigbee
Neophyte



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 101
  		   Posted 5/6/2008 3:31 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Surely, the whole idea of sci-fi/fantasy stories is that they are an effort to create an alternative world where different rules apply? Whereas the Bible is a gathering together of disparate writings and teachings on the subject of God and how we should worship Him, written over a long timespan - often a long time after the specific events they cover, as in the case of the 4 Gospels describing the life and death of Jesus. There is no overt attempt to 'make up' magical, or fantastic creatures within those writings. Whether people reading them believe the contents is a different issue.

Surely, one of the earliest series of sci-fi/fantasy stories has to be the tales of Scheherazade, of djines, monstrous birds and tyrannical magic users... Which she spun out in an effort to stop her wife-hating husband from killing her by making the stories as exciting as possible, so that he would keep her alive one more night in order to hear what would happen next.

www.sjhigbee.com

Back to Top
 

MichaelEhart
Sage



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2314
  		   Posted 5/6/2008 1:23 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The Epic of Gilgamesh was written down at least 700 years before the Bible, so no, even by stretching the standards.
I do claim that Gilgamesh, and the attendant Tale of the Deluge are the first S&S stories.

Click here to buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2008!
"Without Napier" Every Day Fiction, April 9
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Ricasso Press, Spring 2008
"To Destroy All Flesh" Return of the Sword, Flashing Swords Press, Spring 2008
"Only His Name" Every Day Fiction, March 30
"An Exorcism Straight, Hold the Elvis" They Are Not What They Seem, Janrae Frank, ed., TBA
"The First Trial of Jermaish the King" Flashing Swords #10, May 2008
Still in print!
"The Stars by Law Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, Journey Books, 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Tenoka Press, 2007
Back to Top
 

southernweirdo
Neophyte



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 94
  		   Posted 5/6/2008 9:12 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Interesting thought and I know where you're coming from, but I don't think we should call the Bible sci-fi/fantasy. It is a religious text, something altogether different. It was not written as fiction. The Old Testament is historical in nature, the single best historic reference we have for that time period and place. The New Testament is also important as a historic document.

I may be biased because of my personal beliefs, but I took many world literature classes in college and have a deep and abiding love for studying ancient texts from various cultures, including those outside the Hebrew/Early Christian cannon. Most early world literature (indian myths, Gilgamesh and other Sumerian texts, The Egyptian Book of the Dead, various Asian texts, the epics of the early Europeans, etc.) seems fantastic by today's standards, but, for the most part, they were all taken seriously as fact by the authors and readers at that time and place. It's not like a science fiction or fantasy novel today.

Southern Fried Weirdness
 
Back to Top
 

Jaqhama
Adventurer



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailablePrivate Messaging Not AvailableAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 391
  		   Posted 5/6/2008 6:54 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If the Bible was read today by a non-religious person...read simply as another novel...would it not be viewed as one of the world's first sci-fi/fantasy books?
 
 
 

You can read some of my stories here:
Skulkers. Jack be nimble, Jack be quick. RAT's. La Carcajou. Jet Bike Boogie...at www.pulpanddagger.com
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
at www.bikernet.com (Plus many of my motorcycle related articles.)
The Covert OP. Chick Prick...at www.milstory.com

Back to Top
 
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
 
Forum Information
Currently it is Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:01 AM (GMT -4)
There are a total of 80,260 posts in 6,342 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 29 new threads and 122 reply posts. View Active Threads
Who's Online
This forum has 1221 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, tomo99.
11 Guest(s), 0 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP2
dotNetBB © 2000-2008
(c) SFReader
Need Support? | Forum Help Manual