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| SFReader Forums > SFReader > Anything Goes! > R.I.P. Sir Arthur C. Clarke | Forum Quick Jump
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 |  Gustavo Sage

       Date Joined Aug 2007 Total Posts : 1149 | Posted 3/18/2008 8:06 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  Hazimel Jack of Shadows

       Date Joined Oct 2006 Total Posts : 220 | Posted 3/18/2008 8:22 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  Bill Ward Biblioholic

       Date Joined Jul 2006 Total Posts : 1635 | Posted 3/18/2008 9:12 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  crystalwizard Forum Moderator

       Date Joined Nov 2006 Total Posts : 4607 | Posted 3/18/2008 9:29 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  Mike Lynch Acolyte

       Date Joined Mar 2007 Total Posts : 311 | Posted 3/18/2008 9:50 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  Dean Senior Non-Com

       Date Joined Mar 2008 Total Posts : 27 | Posted 3/18/2008 10:31 PM (GMT -4) |   | | When my father passed away in '81 my local library dedicated one of Sir Aurthurs books, Voyage to Rama as a memorial book. It was one of my fathers favorites. Heres hoping theyre together having very interesting discussions. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  nathan Sage

       Date Joined Mar 2006 Total Posts : 2111 | Posted 3/18/2008 10:36 PM (GMT -4) |   | If the proponderance of evidence points to what the proponderance of the evidence seems to point to with the whole move to Skri Lanka, then it overshadows, to my mind, anything he wrote.
VIEW IMAGE "Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
  |  nathan Sage

       Date Joined Mar 2006 Total Posts : 2111 | Posted 3/18/2008 11:29 PM (GMT -4) |   | |
Wow.
I only wish some of that indignant passion could be put to work saving third world children from being exploited by wealthy Westerner child molesters. Of course they never wrote any stories--so screw them. ?
RIP indeed. And for the sake of the boys sooner rather than latter.
One, a person should not be excused for preying on children no matter how great their "art" is/was, and frankly AC was known not for his prose but for his ideas anyway.
Two, homosexulaity has nothing to do with pedophilia. Gay men want to have sex with other gay men--not prey on children: shame on you for suggesting otherwise AND revictimizing his victims by suggesting they wanted it.
Third, no if you dig into the lives of heroes you won't, as a rule like gravity, find something abhorrent. You may find human fraility and weakness but so what? That's not equitable to sexual preditors.
Homosexuality does not = pedophilia. Frankly it's hate speech to suggest so.
VIEW IMAGE "Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
 |  G.L. Douglas Arkrider

       Date Joined Feb 2008 Total Posts : 90 | Posted 3/19/2008 12:42 AM (GMT -4) |   |
Skadi meic Beorh said... If our art is going to be judged by our personal lives, lives which paradoxically both call to us and torment us, then we may as well all stop now. A certain wise man once said, "He who has never sinned, cast the first stone," and the crowd dispersed, the oldest first, and then unto the youngest.
RIP, Arthur. RIP.
Skadi, the passage of scripture to which you refer has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The Pharisees where trying to trap Jesus with a question regarding an adultrous woman in order to have a basis for accusing Him of not following the Old Testament laws. They said the woman should be stoned according to those laws. But Jesus knew that the laws referred to the adultry of both the man and woman, and He wisely rebuked their hypocrisy. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.
(Please visit my website: http://www.alpharising.net) | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Dave Master of the Domain

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 656 | Posted 3/19/2008 10:40 AM (GMT -4) |   | Hmm... Skadi deleted his post in this thread. In any case, I thourhg SFReaderians would find the email exchange I had with him this morning interesting:
Nathan Meyer Skadi meic Beorh Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:19 AM To: webmaster@sfreader.com
Dave,
Nathan Meyer attacked me publicly in one of the forums this evening, and I am considering this to be libel. I find this to be wholly unacceptable in a professional forum, and am wondering what action you normally take when this kind of things occurs.
Skadi meic Beorh -------------------------------------
SFReader Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:44 AM
Please provide me the URL of the thread.
Thanks,
Dave -------------------------------------
Skadi meic Beorh Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:53 AM To: SFReader <webmaster@sfreader.com>
http://forum.sfreader.com/default.aspx?f=42&m=73366
Skadi meic Beorh -------------------------------------
SFReader Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:57 AM To: Skadi meic Beorh
Please explain to me why you consider this libel. I see it as an impassioned response to your attempt mitigate to Clarke's well-know preference for other than platonic relationships with young males. I see Nathan questioning your position, which fall pretty far outside the definition of libel.
Why don't you engage him in debate, since he obviously disagrees with you, and IMO, did so in a rational manner? -------------------------------------
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:19 AM, Skadi meic Beorh wrote: To: SFReader
Dave,
If you consider Nathan Meyer to be rational, then you are irrational yourself, and I no longer traffic with your forum. If you will kindly delete my account, that would be appreciated.
Take care.
Skadi meic Beorh -------------------------------------
SFReader Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 9:12 AM To: Skadi meic Beorh
I don't know Nathan, so I don't know if he's rational or not. So I didn't say he was. I said his rebuttal was rational and I didn't think it was an attack on you, nor was it libel according to the legal definition of the word.
You stated your opinion as to Clarke's sexual proclivities and Nathan called you out for it.
Personally, I think ANYONE who throws out scripture as a defense has already passed the boundaries of rationality, but in my initial email with you, I kept that opinion to myself.
Your reply to my suggestion that you simply engage Nathan in debate confirms my initial impression.
As to my rationality, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone more rational than I. Just ask my wife!
Good luck and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!
Dave Dave SFReader Webmaster
Get Paid to Blog Tizags Social Bookmarking Site Memories and Music NineWords | | Back to Top | | |
  |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4475 | Posted 3/19/2008 11:38 AM (GMT -4) |   | Certainly an odd turn of events in a obit thread.
Nathan's article link didn't surprise me, I'd remember reading similar ones at the time.
Arthur Clark had both defenders and critics on theis issue. The man moved to Sri Lanka in 1958, and none of the many goverments of that turbulent nation have, so far as I've ever heard, ever moved to deport him or take any other action against him, no news source ever managed to produce the smoking gun of, say, an adult who accused Clark of abusing him as a child, as has happened to so many Catholic priests in the states these last couple of decades, though there has been many years of opportunity to do so. Only general allegations of his moving to Sri Lanka to engage in the trade. When he moved to Sri Lanka, then Ceylon, homosexuality was often equated in the public mind with pedophilia. Arthur Clark was gay, I've never heard any credible speaker say otherwise, and that was quite a stigmatic condition for most of his life. The allegations of pedophilia dogged him for many years, but oddly enough only in the media, never in the courts. I've heard that his prominence and fame protected him but a moments thought reduces that argument to the horseshit it is. Clarks fame made him a target, and he never had the kinds of funds to protect himself that say, Michael Jackson did. which didn't work for Jackson and wouldn't have worked for Clark. For Clark it never had too, because no credible body of evidence was ever brought against him.
Just innuendo, which is harder to fight.
At any event, his contributions to science and science fiction are proven contributions to human culture. The fifteen page paper he wrote for a technical journal in 1945 alone would stand up as a great contribution outlasting whatever nebulous crimes people periodically insisted he had committed.
RIP indeed, Sir.
Mike Michael D. Turner "Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books www.baen.com "Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6 www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm
"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php "Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html "Morning Coffee" in Every Day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/ "The Jewel Below" in Flashing Swords flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm "Happy Landings" in Every Day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/ "Teller of Tales" in Every day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/ Read "Silver Shells" In Every Day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/silver-shells-by-michael-d-turner/ | | Back to Top | | |
 |  nathan Sage

       Date Joined Mar 2006 Total Posts : 2111 | Posted 3/19/2008 11:44 AM (GMT -4) |   |
PaulMc said...
Anyway, I really had to laugh about "libel". If anyone has been around here long enough, they know that if anyone could charge debating Nathan with "libel" there would be a line around the block!
Sshh. A good case of water boarding and a text book about intelligent design will make you see the error of your ways.
What I found stunning was that someone would not deny the charges as unproven or something, but instead would defend being a pederast, I was really quite taken aback.
Then she/he wrote me a letter stating that my submission for Blood & Snow that was being held for consideration was now unsuitable.
So if you're a pedophile you should still be honored for your writing. If you don't like pedophilia then your previously acceptable writing becomes untenable.
Dave I should thank you. And I do so. Not for "sticking up" for me as I know that if I'd crossed a line into insults you'd have bounced me--but rather for running a fair forum.
She/he also expressed some doubt as to whether I'd be this "mouthy" in person. I can only point toward my picture. See that nose? It wasn't the one my mother gave me. Instead it was transformed into the mishapen potato you see because of a penchant for sharing my opinions on Life the Universe and Everything in a unrestricted manner.
Now. I have to call my lawyer and see if I can sue Paul for making fun of me. VIEW IMAGE"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
   |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4475 | Posted 3/19/2008 12:08 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  nathan Sage

       Date Joined Mar 2006 Total Posts : 2111 | Posted 3/19/2008 12:18 PM (GMT -4) |   | Well thanks G.L., I appreciate the show of support.
Let me be fair as Bill and Mike make fair points. Like Michael Jackson, nothing was ever proven about AC in a court of law that could make you go "Ah ha see!" It is quite right to say so and if you love the man's writing and are reticent to give up a childhood hero then that fact makes a solid and fair point to advance and argument.
I still wouldn't let my boys spend the night at Neverland Ranch or visit MJ in Dubai.
This is all I said in my first post: If the proponderance of the evidence points to what it seems to, then his contributions are overshadowed. I stand by that point as you'll note it's not declarative.
The rest of the exchanges with Skad had to do with my shock that someone would try and put consenual sex between adults of the same gender in the same category as child molestation--and how no matter what a great artist you are, sodomy of young boys pretty much leaves a bad taste in your mouth for art appreciation--this point was irregardless of AC's status one way or another.
As fo AC himself. It is unfortunate that of all the places in the world he chose to escape prejudice from he chose a nation internationally infamous for wealthy pederasts. It is further unfortune that after moving to a place 2nd only to Thailand for this reputation that the stories began to circulate.
Was he brought up on charges? No. Are wealthy patrons in poor 3rd world countries often brought up on charges? Well, no.
AC was never proven to be a child molester. Rather the charges against him take on more of a "the Duck Test" feel. VIEW IMAGE "Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
  |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4475 | Posted 3/19/2008 12:40 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
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