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Stuart Clark
Alien Trapper



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   Posted 3/18/2008 7:58 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
From one Clark to another,
 
R.I.P.
 
Truly a Sir within the realm of Science Fiction.



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Gustavo
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   Posted 3/18/2008 8:06 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wow... He will be missed in a huge way.


Visit my livejournal!  http://bondo-ba.livejournal.com/ 

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Hazimel
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   Posted 3/18/2008 8:22 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nice article here.

Words fail me.


Check out my story "Cold Snap" in Lords of Justice from Carnifex Press. It's an anthology of kick-ass super hero novellas.
I Dream of Dragons, a writing blog

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Bill Ward
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   Posted 3/18/2008 9:12 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I kinda thought he'd live forever. One of my favorites, very sad to see this.


billwardwriter.com

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crystalwizard
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   Posted 3/18/2008 9:29 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm going to sit here in shock for a bit.


Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!



Managing Editor of Flashing Swords


Visit my art gallery on art wanted
All my books in print

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Mike Lynch
Acolyte



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   Posted 3/18/2008 9:50 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yeah, I felt his loss as well.

Mike


www.mikelynchbooks.com
 
 

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Dean
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   Posted 3/18/2008 10:31 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When my father passed away in '81 my local library dedicated one of Sir Aurthurs books, Voyage to Rama as a memorial book. It was one of my fathers favorites. Heres hoping theyre together having very interesting discussions.
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nathan
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   Posted 3/18/2008 10:36 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

If the proponderance of evidence points to what the proponderance of the evidence seems to point to with the whole move to Skri Lanka, then it overshadows, to my mind, anything he wrote.

 


VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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nathan
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   Posted 3/18/2008 10:46 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19980203/ai_n14149465
 
That's a fair enough primer though it came out in '98. Subsequent investigations seemed to continue damning the man and did little to alleviate the suspicions for his motivations in expatriotating to Skri Lanka.--I just didn't feel much like googling farther.


VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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nathan
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   Posted 3/18/2008 11:29 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Wow.

I only wish some of that indignant passion could be put to work saving third world children from being exploited by wealthy Westerner child molesters. Of course they never wrote any stories--so screw them. ?

RIP indeed. And for the sake of the boys sooner rather than latter.

One, a person should not be excused for preying on children no matter how great their "art" is/was, and frankly AC was known not for his prose but for his ideas anyway.

Two, homosexulaity has nothing to do with pedophilia. Gay men want to have sex with other gay men--not prey on children: shame on you for suggesting otherwise AND revictimizing his victims by suggesting they wanted it.

Third, no if you dig into the lives of heroes you won't, as a rule like gravity, find something abhorrent. You may find human fraility and weakness but so what? That's not equitable to sexual preditors.

Homosexuality does not = pedophilia. Frankly it's hate speech to suggest so.


VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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G.L. Douglas
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   Posted 3/19/2008 12:42 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Skadi meic Beorh said...
If our art is going to be judged by our personal lives, lives which paradoxically both call to us and torment us, then we may as well all stop now. A certain wise man once said, "He who has never sinned, cast the first stone," and the crowd dispersed, the oldest first, and then unto the youngest.

RIP, Arthur. RIP.
Skadi, the passage of scripture to which you refer has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The Pharisees where trying to trap Jesus with a question regarding an adultrous woman in order to have a basis for accusing Him of not following the Old Testament laws. They said the woman should be stoned according to those laws. But Jesus knew that the laws referred to the adultry of both the man and woman, and He wisely rebuked their hypocrisy.


I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.
 
(Please visit my website: http://www.alpharising.net)

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Dave
Master of the Domain



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   Posted 3/19/2008 10:40 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hmm... Skadi deleted his post in this thread. In any case, I thourhg SFReaderians would find the email exchange I had with him this morning interesting:


Nathan Meyer
Skadi meic Beorh Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:19 AM
To: webmaster@sfreader.com

Dave,

Nathan Meyer attacked me publicly in one of the forums this evening, and I am considering this to be libel. I find this to be wholly unacceptable in a professional forum, and am wondering what action you normally take when this kind of things occurs.

Skadi meic Beorh
-------------------------------------

SFReader Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:44 AM

Please provide me the URL of the thread.

Thanks,

Dave
-------------------------------------

Skadi meic Beorh Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:53 AM
To: SFReader <webmaster@sfreader.com>

http://forum.sfreader.com/default.aspx?f=42&m=73366

Skadi meic Beorh
-------------------------------------

SFReader Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:57 AM
To: Skadi meic Beorh

Please explain to me why you consider this libel. I see it as an impassioned response to your attempt mitigate to Clarke's well-know preference for other than platonic relationships with young males. I see Nathan questioning your position, which fall pretty far outside the definition of libel.

Why don't you engage him in debate, since he obviously disagrees with you, and IMO, did so in a rational manner?
-------------------------------------

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:19 AM, Skadi meic Beorh wrote:
To: SFReader

Dave,

If you consider Nathan Meyer to be rational, then you are irrational yourself, and I no longer traffic with your forum. If you will kindly delete my account, that would be appreciated.

Take care.

Skadi meic Beorh
-------------------------------------

SFReader Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 9:12 AM
To: Skadi meic Beorh

I don't know Nathan, so I don't know if he's rational or not. So I didn't say he was. I said his rebuttal was rational and I didn't think it was an attack on you, nor was it libel according to the legal definition of the word.

You stated your opinion as to Clarke's sexual proclivities and Nathan called you out for it.

Personally, I think ANYONE who throws out scripture as a defense has already passed the boundaries of rationality, but in my initial email with you, I kept that opinion to myself.

Your reply to my suggestion that you simply engage Nathan in debate confirms my initial impression.

As to my rationality, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone more rational than I. Just ask my wife!

Good luck and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

Dave


Dave
SFReader Webmaster


Get Paid to Blog
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PaulMc
Adept



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   Posted 3/19/2008 10:57 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dave said...
Hmm... Skadi deleted his post in this thread. In any case, I thought SFReaderians would find the email exchange I had with him this morning interesting:


Her actually, I think.

Anyway, I really had to laugh about "libel". If anyone has been around here long enough, they know that if anyone could charge debating Nathan with "libel" there would be a line around the block! rofl

As to Clarke - I am disturbed by these revelations which I had not heard of. 'Lost Worlds of 2001', 'Rendezvous with Rama' and 'Nine Billion Names of God' were some of my favorite reads when I was younger.


-- Paul McNamee

My Writings

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erazmus
Master



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   Posted 3/19/2008 11:38 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Certainly an odd turn of events in a obit thread.

Nathan's article link didn't surprise me, I'd remember reading similar ones at the time.

Arthur Clark had both defenders and critics on theis issue. The man moved to Sri Lanka in 1958, and none of the many goverments of that turbulent nation have, so far as I've ever heard, ever moved to deport him or take any other action against him, no news source ever managed to produce the smoking gun of, say, an adult who accused Clark of abusing him as a child, as has happened to so many Catholic priests in the states these last couple of decades, though there has been many years of opportunity to do so. Only general allegations of his moving to Sri Lanka to engage in the trade.
When he moved to Sri Lanka, then Ceylon, homosexuality was often equated in the public mind with pedophilia. Arthur Clark was gay, I've never heard any credible speaker say otherwise, and that was quite a stigmatic condition for most of his life. The allegations of pedophilia dogged him for many years, but oddly enough only in the media, never in the courts. I've heard that his prominence and fame protected him but a moments thought reduces that argument to the horseshit it is. Clarks fame made him a target, and he never had the kinds of funds to protect himself that say, Michael Jackson did. which didn't work for Jackson and wouldn't have worked for Clark. For Clark it never had too, because no credible body of evidence was ever brought against him.

Just innuendo, which is harder to fight.

At any event, his contributions to science and science fiction are proven contributions to human culture. The fifteen page paper he wrote for a technical journal in 1945 alone would stand up as a great contribution outlasting whatever nebulous crimes people periodically insisted he had committed.

RIP indeed, Sir.

Mike


Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
"Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html
"Morning Coffee" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/
"The Jewel Below" in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm
"Happy Landings" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/
"Teller of Tales" in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/
Read "Silver Shells" In Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/silver-shells-by-michael-d-turner/

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nathan
Sage



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   Posted 3/19/2008 11:44 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
PaulMc said...

Anyway, I really had to laugh about "libel". If anyone has been around here long enough, they know that if anyone could charge debating Nathan with "libel" there would be a line around the block! rofl

turn
Sshh. A good case of water boarding and a text book about intelligent design will make you see the error of your ways.
 
What I found stunning was that someone would not deny the charges as unproven or something, but instead would defend being a pederast, I was really quite taken aback.
 
Then she/he wrote me a letter stating that my submission for Blood & Snow that was being held for consideration was now unsuitable.
 
So if you're a pedophile you should still be honored for your writing. If you don't like pedophilia then your previously acceptable writing becomes untenable. confused
 
Dave I should thank you. And I do so. Not for "sticking up" for me as I know that if I'd crossed a line into insults you'd have bounced me--but rather for running a fair forum.
 
She/he also expressed some doubt as to whether I'd be this "mouthy" in person. I can only point toward my picture. See that nose? It wasn't the one my mother gave me. Instead it was transformed into the mishapen potato you see because of a penchant for sharing my opinions on Life the Universe and Everything in a unrestricted manner.
 
Now. I have to call my lawyer and see if I can sue Paul for making fun of me.


VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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Bill Ward
Biblioholic



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   Posted 3/19/2008 11:59 AM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't think its really been established he was a pedophile, I'll not condemn him on the hearsay of tabloids (the most recent allegation--more recent than that ten year old article linked above-- was retracted). Michael lays it out quite rationally enough above; Sri Lanka might be a third world country and Clarke may have been a powerful figure there, but he was not a medieval lord on a manor that could get away with everything. Especially for as long as he resided there.

Yes, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, and yes I'll change my mind if I see compelling evidence.


billwardwriter.com

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G.L. Douglas
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   Posted 3/19/2008 12:00 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
All I can say is that I cheered loudly when reading Nathan's insightful post here (as well as others he's posted here). Libel? hahahaha

Our world needs outspoken people, and it's good for our minds to read both sides of a point/counterpoint discussion.

I don't know the details surrounding Nathan's submission for Blood and Snow but, hey, a little controversy is the best way to stand out in a crowd! Go Nathan. Now I want to read everything you've ever written.

(I had only copied the first paragraph of Skadi's post to use in my reply. Her/his post did go on and on and on, however.)


I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.
 
(Please visit my website: http://www.alpharising.net)

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erazmus
Master



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   Posted 3/19/2008 12:08 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And I missed it, darn.

Mike


Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
"Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html
"Morning Coffee" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/
"The Jewel Below" in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm
"Happy Landings" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/
"Teller of Tales" in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/
Read "Silver Shells" In Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/silver-shells-by-michael-d-turner/

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nathan
Sage



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   Posted 3/19/2008 12:18 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Well thanks G.L., I appreciate the show of support.

Let me be fair as Bill and Mike make fair points. Like Michael Jackson, nothing was ever proven about AC in a court of law that could make you go "Ah ha see!" It is quite right to say so and if you love the man's writing and are reticent to give up a childhood hero then that fact makes a solid and fair point to advance and argument.

I still wouldn't let my boys spend the night at Neverland Ranch or visit MJ in Dubai.

This is all I said in my first post: If the proponderance of the evidence points to what it seems to, then his contributions are overshadowed. I stand by that point as you'll note it's not declarative.

The rest of the exchanges with Skad had to do with my shock that someone would try and put consenual sex between adults of the same gender in the same category as child molestation--and how no matter what a great artist you are, sodomy of young boys pretty much leaves a bad taste in your mouth for art appreciation--this point was irregardless of AC's status one way or another.

As fo AC himself. It is unfortunate that of all the places in the world he chose to escape prejudice from he chose a nation internationally infamous for wealthy pederasts. It is further unfortune that after moving to a place 2nd only to Thailand for this reputation that the stories began to circulate.

Was he brought up on charges? No. Are wealthy patrons in poor 3rd world countries often brought up on charges? Well, no.

AC was never proven to be a child molester. Rather the charges against him take on more of a "the Duck Test" feel.


VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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nathan
Sage



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   Posted 3/19/2008 12:21 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I hope that came out as reasoned. I have an opinion. I acknowledge that it is only an opinion. I list the reasons for holding the opinion.

I then make some points seperate from any accusation, one way or another, about AC in regards to preditors and art.

I want it to be devoid of cheap shots out of respect for Bill and Mike and my own general Bambi like persona.


VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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erazmus
Master



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   Posted 3/19/2008 12:40 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nathan,
You know I'm more likely to deform the nose some more than try to sue for Libel, but I respect your opinion and the reasons for it. I believe that the masses love to see the great brought low and that, had he been relying on protection rather than innocense in say, 1972, he would have been drug through the streets as a sign of "progressive change" and "a new order" by 1995. Its the length of his stay in Sri Lanka that leads me to believe he simply fell in love with the place and lived there for fifty years trying to make a better place of it.

But I could be wrong.

At any rate he's dead now, the last of the three writers credited with raising Science Fiction up beyond its pulp adventure roots. I give him creedos for that. It isn't in dispute.

Mike


Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
"Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html
"Morning Coffee" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/
"The Jewel Below" in Flashing Swords
flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm
"Happy Landings" in Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/
"Teller of Tales" in Every day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/
Read "Silver Shells" In Every Day Fiction
www.everydayfiction.com/silver-shells-by-michael-d-turner/

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G.L. Douglas
Arkrider



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   Posted 3/19/2008 12:42 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
nathan said... Bambi like persona.

 

rofl   rofl rofl rofl


I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.
 
(Please visit my website: http://www.alpharising.net)

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Bill Ward
Biblioholic



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   Posted 3/19/2008 12:44 PM (GMT -4)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Perfectly reasonable, I understood your point even before you elaborated on it...which isn't sarcasm, I'm just saying I can very easily see where you are coming from.

But I'm suing you for libel anyway.


billwardwriter.com

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nathan
Sage



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