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| SFReader Forums > SF Fiction and Art > Right Now I'm Reading.... > Worm Ouroboros, Chps 7 & 8 | Forum Quick Jump
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Nik
Adept
      
Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 757
| Posted 1/31/2008 1:21 AM (GMT -4) |   | I'm catching up, Bill. Making my way through chapter 7 right now. I get the sense that Eddison could spend about ten pages describing my morning breakfast. That's a truly boring event, but he would describe it as if it were the most beautiful and rare occurrence on this earth. Cripes!
Nicholas Ian Hawkins
Forthcoming
"Knowledge and Dust," in Magic & Mechanica, from Ricasso Press, Winter 2008
Published
"Relativity," in FLASHSHOT, September 28, 2007
Visit my website, Trampler of Beautiful Phrases, at nihawkins.wordpress.com | | Back to Top | | |
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Bill Ward
Biblioholic
Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1632
| Posted 1/31/2008 1:42 AM (GMT -4) | | | | |
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Nik
Adept
Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 757
| Posted 1/31/2008 4:44 PM (GMT -4) | | Bill Ward said...
Does your morning breakfast feature dancing birds? If so I think I read that chapter already...
No, but I do have a cat that tries to trip me on my way to the kitchen.
I've completed chapter 7. A slow start, but it eventually started rolling. I like how it's building to conflict as the various groups jockey for power and trade alliances.
I did notice some anachronisms, such as the use of "atoms," and some other words that were out of place. Characters mention Elysium and Bacchus and one even calls the world in which they live "earth." These were a bit distracting. This is Mercury, right? And a pre-industrial society?
And what the hell happened to that Lessingham guy and the bird leading him around?
Nicholas Ian Hawkins
Forthcoming
"Knowledge and Dust," in Magic & Mechanica, from Ricasso Press, Winter 2008
Published
"Relativity," in FLASHSHOT, September 28, 2007
Visit my website, Trampler of Beautiful Phrases, at nihawkins.wordpress.com | | Back to Top | | |
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James Enge
Maker
Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 207
| Posted 1/31/2008 4:58 PM (GMT -4) | | I thought the banquet scene, with La Fireez and the lords of Witchland, had a lot of tension to it, and I enjoyed the chaotic resolution. The next chapter was a tad slower, but just as I was dreading another horrible bout of pointless description (this time of Brandoch Daha's place at Krothering), Eddison says, "to tell of all these were but to cloy imagination with picturing in one while of over-much glory and splendour." Maybe his beta-readers had been talking to him.
I like the new female characters: Prezmyra, Corund's wife, and Mevrian, Brandoch Daha's sister. They seem to be more than just furniture.
It was surprising to see one last mention of Lessingham; I thought he'd vanished out of the storyteller's mind entirely: "within the gate is that garden of the grass walk between the yews where Lessingham stood with the martlet nine weeks before, when first he came to Demonland."
James Enge
http://jamesenge.com/
"A Covenant with Death" in Flashing Swords
"The Lawless Hours" in Black Gate 11
"The Gordian Stone" in Every Day Fiction
"The Red Worm's Way" forthcoming in Return of the Sword
"Payment in Full" forthcoming in Black Gate | | Back to Top | | |
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Nik
Adept
Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 757
| Posted 1/31/2008 11:32 PM (GMT -4) | | Nathan Jerpe said...
What would everyone say to a post that names all of the characters so far, and delineates them by Land? We have quite a cast already, and I suspect it will only grow further before we are finished. Where should this post go?
Sounds like a good idea. Probably should go in the sticky post we already started for this group read. You wouldn't mind taking a first crack at it? The rest of us can fill in any gaps.
Nicholas Ian Hawkins
Forthcoming
"Knowledge and Dust," in Magic & Mechanica, from Ricasso Press, Winter 2008
Published
"Relativity," in FLASHSHOT, September 28, 2007
Visit my website, Trampler of Beautiful Phrases, at nihawkins.wordpress.com | | Back to Top | | |
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Nik
Adept
Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 757
| Posted 1/31/2008 11:37 PM (GMT -4) | | James Enge said...Hey Nik: I think you're right about some of these out-of-place items: Eddison's "Mercury" seems to share a lot of history and culture with Earth--not to mention astronomy: the moon is frequently mentioned. ( They're finding lots of weird stuff with the latest Mercury fly-by but I'm pretty sure a stray moon isn't among them.) The mention of atoms isn't exactly anachronistic, though. Eddison is quoting a Renaissance poet here, who probably picked up his notions from the ancient poet Lucretius. (Sorry if this sounds too lecture-ish. Feel free to tell me to button it.)
Not at all. My knowledge of literature, while not horrendous, is certainly not spectacular, so I appreciate it when someone enlightens me. Besides, if I'm remembering correctly, you're a professor--you're just acting according to your nature. Which poet is Eddison referencing?
By the way, the Mercury images, and the revelation of an atmosphere, of a sort, are awesome.
Nicholas Ian Hawkins
Forthcoming
"Knowledge and Dust," in Magic & Mechanica, from Ricasso Press, Winter 2008
Published
"Relativity," in FLASHSHOT, September 28, 2007
Visit my website, Trampler of Beautiful Phrases, at nihawkins.wordpress.com | | Back to Top | | |
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Nik
Adept
Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 757
| Posted 2/3/2008 1:26 PM (GMT -4) | | James Enge said...
I'm reading Lucretius this semester with a philosophy student, so I'm crammed to the eyebrows with fun-facts about ancient atomism.
The Renaissance poet Eddison is quoting is Carew. I got this from the back of the old Ballantine edition I'm reading, where there's a list of all the poems in the book and where Eddison lifted them from. I'm not sure if the same list appears in all editions.
Lucretius. The Nature of Things, right? From what I know, he was kind of ahead of his time, almost like someone who would fit better in the Age of Reason rather than Roman times. But I didn't know he was talking about atoms! Are you reading it in the original Latin?
I just ventured into the back of my edition of Ouruboros and it has the list of poems. Very useful--thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Nicholas Ian Hawkins
Forthcoming
"Knowledge and Dust," in Magic & Mechanica, from Ricasso Press, Winter 2008
"What Heroes Leave Behind," in Return of the Sword, Flashing Swords Press, Spring 2008
Published
"Relativity," in FLASHSHOT, September 28, 2007
Visit my website, Trampler of Beautiful Phrases, at nihawkins.wordpress.com | | Back to Top | | |
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Nik
Adept
Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 757
| Posted 2/4/2008 12:24 PM (GMT -4) | | Did anyone catch, in Chapter 8, Brandoch Daha griping about how the book he was reading was overly long? This came after Eddison had devoted several pages to describing landscape and the interior of Daha's home. That killed me.
Nicholas Ian Hawkins
Forthcoming
"Knowledge and Dust," in Magic & Mechanica, from Ricasso Press, Winter 2008
"What Heroes Leave Behind," in Return of the Sword, Flashing Swords Press, Spring 2008
Published
"Relativity," in FLASHSHOT, September 28, 2007
Visit my website, Trampler of Beautiful Phrases, at nihawkins.wordpress.com | | Back to Top | | |
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Nathan Jerpe
Acolyte
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 216
| Posted 2/4/2008 9:38 PM (GMT -4) | |
Nik said...Did anyone catch, in Chapter 8, Brandoch Daha griping about how the book he was reading was overly long? This came after Eddison had devoted several pages to describing landscape and the interior of Daha's home. That killed me.
Hehe yeah. *Damnably* long, if I remember it rightly.
I don't think this is intentional. To our ears Eddison may sound long-winded, but I think in his day this was par for the course. No complaints by me, though; his choices of words are quite striking.
One example I noticed was "fetches of the dead". I thought I knew what fetch meant, but evidently it can also refer to a wraith. Or maybe he was referring to the things that the dead go out to fetch? Great word either way, owed in part to its ambiguity.
http://roguelikefiction.com | | Back to Top | | |
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Nathan Jerpe
Acolyte
Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 216
| Posted 2/4/2008 10:04 PM (GMT -4) | | | Well its fair to say by now that we've spent some time studying this book. The introduction of the Pixies in Chapter VII inspired me to consider the notion of 'plot devices' here. I'm probably using this term inaccurately; I mean it simply to represent a tool that you can pull out of your toolbox to assist you in managing your story.
Briefly, Eddison used one in Chapter VIII that I tend to dislike, and that's the use of dreams to bestow information to characters that they would not have had otherwise. In particular I'm referring to Lord Juss's dream, although Eddison justifies it somewhat by describing how the bed is charmed or somesuch.
On the other hand, I really like the technique he brings to the fore in Chapter VII, which I'll call the technique of factions. By this I mean he has divided his cast into several groups, each with their own interests. Political conflict arises quite naturally out of this, and the grouping helps to keep the stage managed, especially when there are so many characters inhabiting it. I may not always be clear what makes Spitfire Spitfire (and the author might not be, either), but so long as I can remember that he is a member of the Demons, I've got the basics filed away and so does Eddison.
What I really liked about Chapter VII was that I realized Eddison had been hiding some cards. He could have constantly enumerated the various factions if he had wanted, presenting them perhaps in a round-robin order that was fair but predictable, but instead he unsheathes the Pixies here like a hidden ace; he surprises us with an enlargement of our perspective which could, incidentally, make a rereading of previous chapters more rewarding.
This reminds me a bit of the Dune Universe, and how the various Houses served as archetypes for the characters.
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