SFReader Forums

SFReader.com : Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror Book Reviews & more

SFWatcher.com : Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror Movie Review

Project Wonderful - Your ad here, right now, for as low as $0.00

SFReader Forums > SF Fiction and Art > Right Now I'm Reading.... > Worm Ouroboros, Chps 3 & 4

Forum Quick Jump

[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

Nathan Jerpe
Acolyte

Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 219

Posted 1/14/2008 9:38 PM (GMT -4)

Timor Mortis conturbat me - The fear of Death confounds me.

Well the Red Foliot's dirge in Chapter III came as somewhat of a surprise. The choices in words and spelling are quite strange; does anybody have insight into their origin?

The first line, too, is striking:

"I that in heill was and gladness"

Had the speaker found salvation in hell, only to find sickness outside of it?

http://roguelikefiction.com

Nik
Adept

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 763

Posted 1/15/2008 1:13 AM (GMT -4)

I was wondering about this myself--the origin of the language, I mean.

Also, someone mentioned in a previous thread on Chapters 1-2 (maybe you, nathan?) that the Witches had a legitimate reason to be pissed at the Demons. Now, I've only gotten through Chapter 3, but I think I missed that part. The Demons seem to have the right to be sore because of the betrayal during the battle with the Ghouls, but the Witches seem to me to be treacherous for the sake of treachery. Can someone fill me in?

Nicholas Ian Hawkins

Forthcoming
"Knowledge and Dust," in Magic & Mechanica, from Ricasso Press, Winter 2008

Published
"Relativity," in FLASHSHOT, September 28, 2007

Visit my website, Trampler of Beautiful Phrases, at nihawkins.wordpress.com

James Enge
Maker

Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 207

Posted 1/15/2008 1:29 AM (GMT -4)

The Red Foliot's dirge is actually Dunbar's "Lament for the Makers." The whole thing, with some vocab notes, is here. I think Eddison borrows most of the poetry in the book (except for the poem about the three Gorices).

I like it in Ch. 3 pretty much whenever Gro is onstage.

With that Corinius sprang up and drew his sword, and the other Witches with him. But Lord Gro moved not an eyelid, only he said, "Hear mine answer first. All night lieth before us, and 'tis but a moment's task to murther me."

But I confess I didn't plow through all the descriptions of animals dancing.

Ch. 4 was the first part of the book where I felt like Eddison was using his fondness for elaborate description to advance the plot and impact of the story (as with the description of the fortress of Carcë, or the ugly wonders unleashed by the King's sorcery). That's good stuff.

James Enge

http://jamesenge.com/

"Turn Up This Crooked Way" in Black Gate 8

"A Covenant with Death" in Flashing Swords 6

"Payment Deferred" in Black Gate 9

"The Lawless Hours" in Black Gate 11

"The Red Worm's Way" forthcoming in Return of the Sword

"The Gordian Stone" forthcoming in Every Day Fiction

"Payment in Full" forthcoming in Black Gate

Nathan Jerpe
Acolyte

Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 219

Posted 1/15/2008 8:10 AM (GMT -4)

James Enge said...
Ch. 4 was the first part of the book where I felt like Eddison was using his fondness for elaborate description to advance the plot and impact of the story (as with the description of the fortress of Carcë, or the ugly wonders unleashed by the King's sorcery). That's good stuff.

I second that emotion, James. Chapter 4 is downright masterful.

http://roguelikefiction.com

Nik
Adept

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 763

Posted 1/16/2008 7:18 PM (GMT -4)

Finished Chapter 4 last night. I have to agree with James--the description here was engaging and meaningful, as opposed to every piece of food and type of entertainment at the banquet mentioned in previous chapters. The description of the fortress and the sorcery is great, but so is that of the king of the Witches. He comes across as looking like a young Montgomery Burns, or even some sort of Burtonesque villain, only there's really no humor in his diabolicalness.

Bill Ward
Biblioholic

Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1635

Posted 1/18/2008 1:10 AM (GMT -4)

Finally caught up, Ouroboros is getting better and better.

Nathan, 'heill' means whole and healthy (I looked it up, its from old norse); I wouldn't be surprised if its the origin of our word hale.

Nik, I mentioned that both sides had some reason to be aggrieved in the earlier discussion, thinking of the way Goldry attacked and killed Gorice after the Red Foliot had called the match. Even though Gorice was a big cheat, still the Demons had agreed to follow the Foliot's decision.

James, I agree, Gro is turning out to be my favorite character. Chapter four is really excellent all around, the whole iron tower scene is fantastic.

Anyone notice the use of the term 'middle-earth?' It was when the cockatrice was being described.

billwardwriter.com

Nik
Adept

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 763

Posted 1/18/2008 1:19 AM (GMT -4)

Bill, I did notice middle-earth. To my knowledge, that's a Norse thing, too.

And thanks. Now I get what you were saying about both sides having cause to be upset with the other. I guess I didn't read it that way: I thought Goldry killed Gorice in the final round.

One other thing I'm hoping someone here can clear up. I noticed the cockatrice caused nausea to those near it (Gro, in this case). Is that also true of mythological griffons, or is that a modern invention of fantasists?

Bill Ward
Biblioholic

Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1635

Posted 1/18/2008 1:35 AM (GMT -4)

Actually, it was done in the third round. I went over it again and I had it wrong. I must have read the part with the Foliot being cowed by the Witches as the end of the official match or something.

Anyway, I get the impression that the enmity between the two is age-old, and recent offenses are just more of the same.

Although, of course, the Witches do still have a reason to be mad about their King getting killed, whether he deserved it or not.

billwardwriter.com

Nik
Adept

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 763

Posted 1/18/2008 1:47 AM (GMT -4)

I get the sense of a age-old feud, too, which adds to the intensity.

But I say that bastard Gorice got what he deserved!

Nathan Jerpe
Acolyte

Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 219

Posted 1/18/2008 8:41 AM (GMT -4)

I'm not sure about the griffons, but I will say...I've always viewed the cockatrice as a rather silly construction. But Chapter 4 here might have changed my mind. That thing was abominable.

I had interpreted the nausea as a byproduct of the ritual's very awfulness. I hadn't considered that the cockatrice might actually have been *exuding* it, which of course just makes it even better.

I felt like I was reading a horror novel for a few pages there.

http://roguelikefiction.com

James Enge
Maker

Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 207

Posted 1/19/2008 4:30 PM (GMT -4)

In Herodotus (and some of the other ancient guys) the griffins ("the hounds of Zeus") live in the far north, just south of Cimmeria. They guard streams of gold from a race of one-eyed men called Arimaspians, who are always trying to steal the gold. (I think there might be a story in that.) I don't know of any ancient text that talks about griffins being nauseating, like Gorice's cockatrice, but you're definitely supposed to avoid them.

Nathan Jerpe
Acolyte

Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 219

Posted 1/21/2008 11:14 PM (GMT -4)

So I was googling, and wondering about the strange magic word that Lord Gro utters in Chapter IV, and found this:

tripsarecopsem, ?. [< Fr Tripsarécopsem, an anagram of Fr esprit, corps, âme, mind, body, soul; first found in Bernard de Trévise's Le Songe verd, an alchemical tract.

http://roguelikefiction.com

Nik
Adept

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 763

Posted 1/21/2008 11:17 PM (GMT -4)

Nathan Jerpe said...
So I was googling, and wondering about the strange magic word that Lord Gro utters in Chapter IV, and found this:

tripsarecopsem, ?. [< Fr Tripsarécopsem, an anagram of Fr esprit, corps, âme, mind, body, soul; first found in Bernard de Trévise's Le Songe verd, an alchemical tract.

That's awesome. Thanks for looking that up.

I'm a fan of using anagrams. Sometimes they help you come up with a name for a character or place when no other name that comes to mind seems fitting.

James Enge
Maker

Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 207

Posted 2/6/2008 4:46 PM (GMT -4)

Basilisk humor! (Put the cursor over the comic to get the hidden punchline.)

James Enge
http://jamesenge.com/

"A Covenant with Death" in Flashing Swords
"The Lawless Hours" in Black Gate 11
"The Gordian Stone" in Every Day Fiction
"The Red Worm's Way" forthcoming in Return of the Sword
"Payment in Full" forthcoming in Black Gate

Nik
Adept

Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 763

Posted 2/6/2008 4:51 PM (GMT -4)

Heh. Good for a chuckle.

Nicholas Ian Hawkins

Forthcoming
"Knowledge and Dust," in Magic & Mechanica, from Ricasso Press, Winter 2008

"What Heroes Leave Behind," in Return of the Sword, Flashing Swords Press, Spring 2008

Published
"Relativity," in FLASHSHOT, September 28, 2007

Visit my website, Trampler of Beautiful Phrases, at nihawkins.wordpress.com

Forum Information

Currently it is Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:10 AM (GMT -4)
There are a total of 80,576 posts in 6,394 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 19 new threads and 121 reply posts. View Active Threads