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| SFReader Forums > SFReader > Ask The Expert > Agents | Forum Quick Jump
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SC Bryce
Aspiring Hammock Tester
      
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1089
| Posted 1/12/2006 6:36 PM (GMT -4) |   | I'm sure that this has come up before, but I'd like information on finding an agent. SFWA has general information about scams and practices, but what I'm interested in is actual, reputable agents' names/websites and the inside scoop on working with some of these folks.
I've had a few people suggest that I get one, but I'm not sure that I'm ready. I'd like to have some actual references to contact.
SC Bryce
www.SCBryce.com
Contributing Editor and Critique Group Moderator, www.SwordandSorcery.org
Coming Soon: "Rise of a Necromancer," a Dermanassian novella, appearing in "Flashing Swords." | | Back to Top | | |
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SC Bryce
Aspiring Hammock Tester
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1089
| Posted 1/13/2006 6:01 AM (GMT -4) | | Yikes! This is kinda what I've been leery about. If you don't mind me asking, how did you find the agents that you worked with? What were you expecting them to get you that you couldn't get on your own?
SC Bryce
www.SCBryce.com
Contributing Editor and Critique Group Moderator, www.SwordandSorcery.org
Coming Soon: "Rise of a Necromancer," a Dermanassian novella, appearing in "Flashing Swords." | | Back to Top | | |
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SC Bryce
Aspiring Hammock Tester
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1089
| Posted 1/13/2006 1:16 PM (GMT -4) | | Thanks, Nathan. I'll have to work on this over the next few months.
SC Bryce
www.SCBryce.com
Contributing Editor and Critique Group Moderator, www.SwordandSorcery.org
Coming Soon: "Rise of a Necromancer," a Dermanassian novella, appearing in "Flashing Swords." | | Back to Top | | |
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BethS
Adept
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 750
| Posted 1/13/2006 4:34 PM (GMT -4) | | You can meet agents (and editors) at writers conferences and conventions. I've gotten a number of invitations to submit work that way.
Read LOCUS. Every month, it lists the books sold to publishers and which agent sold them. You can get a feel for which agents might be best suited for the kind of book you've written.
Check the acknowledgments in books that are similar to yours, just in case the writer mentions his/her agent.
Hang out on lots of different writer boards where published writers hang out, and listen and ask questions. (Which, of course, you're doing here. :) )
These agents/agencies I know are reputable. I have either met the agents, or have attended panels and workshops where they spoke, or I'm acquainted with writers whom they represent:
Donald Maass, Jennifer Jackson (Donald Maass Literary Agency)
Eleanor Wood (Spectrum)
Joshua Bilmes
Kristin Nelson (an up and coming new agent. I've met her and liked her very much. And she's had some recent sales in sf.)
Ashley Grayson
Robin Rue (Writers House)
Russell Galen (a top agent, who takes on new clients only through recommendation)
Here's a couple of agent lists:
www.geocities.com/ebyame/fantasyagents.html
www.writers.net/agents/topic/7/
Beth
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SC Bryce
Aspiring Hammock Tester
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1089
| Posted 1/14/2006 9:01 AM (GMT -4) | | That's great, Beth. Thanks!
SC Bryce
www.SCBryce.com
Contributing Editor and Critique Group Moderator, www.SwordandSorcery.org
Coming Soon: "Rise of a Necromancer," a Dermanassian novella, appearing in "Flashing Swords." | | Back to Top | | |
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Frank
Adept
Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 629
| Posted 1/15/2006 2:43 PM (GMT -4) | | | I'm just a wannabe with no experience selling any stories (yet) but I've heard over and over again that you don't need an agent until a publisher is actually presenting you with an offer to buy your novel, and that if all you're doing is selling short fiction to various markets then you don't need an agent yet. Is all that true? | | Back to Top | | |
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BethS
Adept
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 750
| Posted 1/15/2006 3:54 PM (GMT -4) | | Frank,
No, you don't need an agent to sell short fiction.
But for book-length fiction, a good agent has a much better chance of getting your manuscript read by the right editor. No languishing in the slush pile.
Of course, it's not easy getting a good agent, either. But if the work is good, someone will eventually take it on.
Beth | | Back to Top | | |
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peadarog
Acolyte
Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 299
| Posted 1/29/2006 12:05 PM (GMT -4) | | Also, unlike with editors, you can sim-sub agents! But there are so many sharks out there you should always submit first to agents who have actually sold work you've heard of... Here are some agent hunting links I used to get my agent:
http://www.sfwa.org/beware/agents.html
http://www.writersservices.com/agent/uk/agent_uk.htm
http://www.miccheetham.com/
http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/
best of luck!
Peadar O Guilin
Available now:
"Twig" From Adventures of Sword and Sorcery #7
"The Bag" in Reckless abandon
"The Mourning Trees" in Black Gate #5
"Fairy Fort" in A Walk on the Darkside
"Hair" in www.feralfiction.com
Coming Soon:
"Hurdy-Gurdy" in Dark Arts
"Where Beauty Lies in Wait" in Black Gate | | Back to Top | | |
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SC Bryce
Aspiring Hammock Tester
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1089
| Posted 1/30/2006 5:09 AM (GMT -4) | | Thanks for the info.
SC Bryce
www.SCBryce.com
Contributing Editor and Critique Group Moderator, www.SwordandSorcery.org
Coming Soon: "Rise of a Necromancer," a Dermanassian novella, appearing in "Flashing Swords." | | Back to Top | | |
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cussedness
Adept
Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 832
| Posted 6/1/2006 11:03 PM (GMT -4) | | Agents can definitely get your work in front of more people and better people, and they can get it read faster.
And, yes, the industry has swung to an incredible degree toward agented subs only over the years. This trend became very evident in the early 1990s at the height of the corporate acquisition of publishing companies which reduced the diversity of the marketplace.
One of the things resulting from the corporate acquisition of publishings houses was that they reduced staff. Back in the days that book lovers ran publishing houses, they had large staffs of first readers. Now they don't. As a way of reducing the slush load on a diminished staff, publishers turned to using agents as gatekeepers and only read agented material because the odds of the books being worthwhile were higher.
But like a salesman with a great line, they can get your foot in the door with the major houses, but in the end the product (ie manuscript) has to sell itself.
An agent can give you a better shot at the big time, but they are not and never will be miracle workers.
If your agent is open to this, the very best thing you can do is write a wide variety of material in each of the sub-genres of the genre that you are writing in. This gives your agent more to work with and a better chance that something will hit.
Janrae Frank
Once there were three brothers, Brandrahoon the vampire, Isranon called the Dawnhand, speaker to spirits, and Waejonan the Accursed, first of sa’necari. Isranon defied his brothers and was destroyed, his descendants forced into the darkness.
Blood Rites
www.fictionwise.com/ebooks/eBook29989.htm
website
www.janraefrank.com
Darkzone
darkzone.yuku.com | | Back to Top | | |
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erazmus
Master
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 4491
| Posted 6/2/2006 1:07 PM (GMT -4) | | Silverdrake's comments apply, clearly, only to one publisher, Jim Baen. Jim has expressed his opinion of the practice clearly and precisely on his web-board. He doesn't mind agented submissions, even from first time authors, but he does strongly dislike the practice of bringing an agent in after a contract has been offered to an unagented author. He has myrad reasons for this, which he explained as some length.
I'll add that Baen is by far the most transparent publisher in the industry. I have never encountered another so willing to discuss things like advances, subsidery rights, promotions, distribution, sales throughput, the editing process, the selection process and all the other minuta of publishing. Their standard contract for first time authors has been explained in detail in various threads on the forum over the years. I assure you, with respects to Baen Books, Silverdrake has it right.
I also know that the case at Baen is very different from most publishers. That too was made plain in the discussion about bringing in an agent.
This has me thinking about something Nathan posted about his search for an agent recently. He had no trouble finding established agents who were willing to come in after the fact on his new contract with Gold Medal but none of them seemed willing to help him find more work-for-hire or shop his uncontracted manuscripts. If you are being offered a contract for a book as a first time author, likewise it will not be hard to find an agency willing to come in and cut itself in for a percentage, now that the hard work of getting the book sold is over. How well they will be willing to work for you on projects that don't just consist of you handing them money is something you'd have to judge for your self. How much faith can you have in an agent who wasn't interested in representing your work until he/she was sure they'd make some money?
If an agent wants to rep me, I'd expect them to at least ask what else I have ready, what I'm working on and how soon I'll have it ready, what else I have out and where. If they are willing to sign you (and get a percentage of the contract you have all ready aquired) without knowing these things, they are looking for a quick turn-around and the faint possibility of a cut of your check if the book pays out, nothing more.
Realisticly, if you have one novel finished and accepted and nothing else completed, how much work can the agent do for you? If, on the other hand, you have a half dozen completed manuscripts you've been shopping around isn't that the work you need them to handle? I can't imagine signing with an agent who hasn't even _read_ my work, yet that is what you are doing, usually, when you bring one in at the last minute on your first contract. How much committment to you can they have when they haven't read you?
Mike
Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Two Ravens" in Amazing Journeys Magazine #9 Sept. 05
"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises | | Back to Top | | |
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cussedness
Adept
Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 832
| Posted 6/2/2006 1:54 PM (GMT -4) | | Mike, you make some very good points there. I got my first agent after I made my first sale. I took the contract to Cherry Weiner and she actually managed to get me more money. However, the relationship did not prove to be a good one and I dropped her two years later.
Jim Baen has always been a very atypical publisher and he was the same as an editor before he became a publisher. I met him several times when he first started out and thought highly of him. And I still think highly of him.
I think that you need to consider very heavily whether you and an agent are going to be a good fit, and this includes asking more detailed questions of the agent. Also, some agents handle a lot of work for hire business and others don't handle any at all. Agents, like everyone else, have gotten very specialized. At one time I had a separate agent for non-fiction and one for fiction.
If I sold something to a major house, I would want an agent to look it over. Right now I don't have an agent and I'm not feeling ready to get another one. I have managed to stay friends with most of my past agents. In fact, I call one of them up a couple of times a month just to chat and see how he's doing. The business side of the relationship did not work out for us, but the friendship side is still going very well.
Janrae Frank
Once there were three brothers, Brandrahoon the vampire, Isranon called the Dawnhand, speaker to spirits, and Waejonan the Accursed, first of sa’necari. Isranon defied his brothers and was destroyed, his descendants forced into the darkness.
Blood Rites
www.fictionwise.com/ebooks/eBook29989.htm
website
www.janraefrank.com
Darkzone
darkzone.yuku.com | | Back to Top | | |
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nathan
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2111
| Posted 6/2/2006 2:28 PM (GMT -4) | |
cussedness said...
Also, some agents handle a lot of work for hire business and others don't handle any at all. Agents, like everyone else, have gotten very specialized. At one time I had a separate agent for non-fiction and one for fiction.
That's who I need to find, lol.
Despite my internet study and reading multiple years worth of Writer's Markets I have a hard time coming up with an agent who is up on that end.
I've sold 5 novels to a major publisher based on pitch+synopsis. If I did it for Harelquin I would think some agent somewhere would think I might have a shot doing it for some Signet or Simon & Schuster in-house series as well.
That's not meant as a whine. I may not sell a 'Trailsman' or 'Hardy Boy's' pitch, but the work is out there, the pay is there, but some houses only accept pitches from agents. Period. There for I can't take my success in one corner and transfer it to another corner without an agent. But I can't figure out an agent who knows how to navigate those backroom conversations.
Oh well, I have no reason to really bitch. I just find it all a little bewildering.
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews | | Back to Top | | |
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erazmus
Master
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 4491
| Posted 6/2/2006 2:33 PM (GMT -4) | | Well, an awful lot of the writers I know are also lawyers. They mostly took the trouble to research what the terms of a publishing contract mean and had the background to do so without resorting to unusual amounts of work doing so. It is a good idea for any writer to do so, of course. An agent spends a lot of time, with new writers, explaining what the terms of a contract means and why the writer should accept them. Unrealistic expectations are probably the biggest problem publishers have with writers.
The best thing a writer can do to be attractive to agents, meaning good agents, is to write well and write a lot. Most writers will never sell a million copies of any one book (some will, of course, but most will not) but an agent can make very good money from a writer that sells in the mid-lists, if they write several books a year. So having a professional quality manuscript ready to pitch is required, but having several is desired. Being able to produce a follow up in several months is better than needing a year or more to do so. This is complicated by the fact that very few writers start out writing for a living. Getting a client to that point should be a priority for any agent, as both parties make more money and generally are happier then. Some writers, of course, never are able to write that much that fast. That means they will need less work from an agent but make them less money, in all likelyhood. I also like to think it means they may write a better book overall, and do better in the long run, but that would be hard to say. The sure money is on a writer that produces.
Just a couple of thoughts.
Mike
Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Two Ravens" in Amazing Journeys Magazine #9 Sept. 05
"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises | | Back to Top | | |
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Jeff Stehman
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 1224
| Posted 6/2/2006 2:51 PM (GMT -4) | | Baen is a special case, and I would not go to him without an agent. Not because I don't trust him. I do, and having an agent isn't likely to change Baen's contract. Not having an agent, however, leaves non-North American rights, movies rights, etc. all on you, because he's not going to do it, and that's a major hassle. Since foreign rights often provide SF novelists with a significant percentage of their writing income, it's not something to be ignored.
As for bringing in an agent after you've got an offer, I have no problem doing that. The odds are good they will, when all is said and done, bring in more money than they take. Besides, I hate working contracts, and I've read too many stories of writers getting burned by them. When I reach that point, however, I do plan to make sure the agent has an open slot. While I won't be looking for a guarantee of future representation, I at least want that possibility.
--Jeff Stehman | | Back to Top | | |
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nathan
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2111
| Posted 6/2/2006 3:03 PM (GMT -4) | |
erazmus said...Nathan, Have you tried talking to your fellow writers at Harelquin? Seems some of the fellows writing in the same series would have had to deal with the same problems. OTOH, you haven't done every series Harelquin sells, yet. So they still have plenty of opportunities for you.  Mike
I think there are 8 other guys like me plus an occassional one off guy. I knew I had 'made it' with management when instead of trailing me along [as they originally talked about doing] one book at a time they let me pitch multiple books to bulk up my advance. Because books are queued out so far ahead I have no idea which writers have hit and git or which are working on other series or who are new comers like me.
The way to make the money is that I write the book to finish in about 1/2 the time the contract calls for. As I am several books out now I'm suppossed to then start on the next one. If I could get a concurrent contract at a different house on a seperate series then I could double up my money for the same calander period. Thus I have to work with someone else other than Harlequin/Gold Eagle. Plus mixing it up is simply more fun.
Every series I've looked at that is house written [for example most adult westerns are in-house] are controlled by companies that only deal with agents.
VIEW IMAGE "Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews | | Back to Top | | |
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BethS
Adept
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 750
| Posted 6/2/2006 5:36 PM (GMT -4) | |
erazmus said...Silverdrake's comments apply, clearly, only to one publisher, Jim Baen. Jim has expressed his opinion of the practice clearly and precisely on his web-board. He doesn't mind agented submissions, even from first time authors, but he does strongly dislike the practice of bringing an agent in after a contract has been offered to an unagented author. He has myrad reasons for this, which he explained as some length. I'll add that Baen is by far the most transparent publisher in the industry. I have never encountered another so willing to discuss things like advances, subsidery rights, promotions, distribution, sales throughput, the editing process, the selection process and all the other minuta of publishing. Their standard contract for first time authors has been explained in detail in various threads on the forum over the years. I assure you, with respects to Baen Books, Silverdrake has it right. I also know that the case at Baen is very different from most publishers. That too was made plain in the discussion about bringing in an agent. This has me thinking about something Nathan posted about his search for an agent recently. He had no trouble finding established agents who were willing to come in after the fact on his new contract with Gold Medal but none of them seemed willing to help him find more work-for-hire or shop his uncontracted manuscripts. If you are being offered a contract for a book as a first time author, likewise it will not be hard to find an agency willing to come in and cut itself in for a percentage, now that the hard work of getting the book sold is over. How well they will be willing to work for you on projects that don't just consist of you handing them money is something you'd have to judge for your self. How much faith can you have in an agent who wasn't interested in representing your work until he/she was sure they'd make some money? If an agent wants to rep me, I'd expect them to at least ask what else I have ready, what I'm working on and how soon I'll have it ready, what else I have out and where. If they are willing to sign you (and get a percentage of the contract you have all ready aquired) without knowing these things, they are looking for a quick turn-around and the faint possibility of a cut of your check if the book pays out, nothing more. Realisticly, if you have one novel finished and accepted and nothing else completed, how much work can the agent do for you? If, on the other hand, you have a half dozen completed manuscripts you've been shopping around isn't that the work you need them to handle? I can't imagine signing with an agent who hasn't even _read_ my work, yet that is what you are doing, usually, when you bring one in at the last minute on your first contract. How much committment to you can they have when they haven't read you? Mike
First of all, thanks for the clarification re Jim Baen. He's got to be unusual among publishers.
I think a really good agent--one who is picky about the sort of work he takes on and is interested in guilding an author's career--will not take on a client with an offer on the table without first reading the work in question. At least, that's what I've heard some good agents say. The money to be had from a ready contract is not the only consideration. They want to be in love with writer's work.
~Beth
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