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Jack Windsword
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  		   Posted 4/9/2008 9:06 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This is more of a copyright question.
 
Is there a copyright on the word "Cimmerian"? As far as I know, Howard didn't coin the term; Homer did, an adjective meaning gloomy, melancholy. (If I'm mistaken, please correct me). I have no intention of recreating Howard's race of amoral hillmen. I have an extinct race of superhumans that once tried to wipe out humanity, and were then stamped out by the gods. (There are one or two left, but I have yet to spin a yarn where my characters actually encounter one)I think Cimmerian is a very fitting term for these people, but my wife keeps telling me that I have to at least change the spelling (like Simmerian) or I'll get sued.
 
Anybody got the skinny on this?
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PaulMc
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  		   Posted 4/9/2008 9:28 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jack Windsword said...
This is more of a copyright question.

Is there a copyright on the word "Cimmerian"? As far as I know, Howard didn't coin the term; Homer did, an adjective meaning gloomy, melancholy. (If I'm mistaken, please correct me). I have no intention of recreating Howard's race of amoral hillmen. I have an extinct race of superhumans that once tried to wipe out humanity, and were then stamped out by the gods. (There are one or two left, but I have yet to spin a yarn where my characters actually encounter one)I think Cimmerian is a very fitting term for these people, but my wife keeps telling me that I have to at least change the spelling (like Simmerian) or I'll get sued.

Anybody got the skinny on this?

You could go right to the source - www.conan.com If you join the forums, you can actually submit questions to CPI, who own the rights to the Conan stuff.

I would say, though, that very simply Cimmerian is so strongly associated with Howard - especially in the world of fantasy stories - that you're just fighting an uphill battle, regardless of copyrights.

I'd try coming up with a new name.

-- Paul McNamee

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Gustavo
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  		   Posted 4/9/2008 10:39 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree wholeheartedly with Paul here. While Cimmerian might sound perfect for what you want to do, so will a lot of other names that people won't associate immediately with someone else's character.

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Jack Windsword
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  		   Posted 4/9/2008 11:13 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Agreed.
 
My original thought was that the association would give it the right light (Frazettian visions of gore and triumph). But if everybody's gonna get hung up on it, then it will be a hinderance instead of a help. Thanks.
 
Movin' on...
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cussedness
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  		   Posted 4/9/2008 11:17 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The actual Greek word that Homer used is Kimmerioi. Because of the associations with Howard, I would advise going back to the original Greek word and not using the later Latinized form.

Janrae Frank
I have no skeletons in my closet, they are all hanging from the yardarm.

Once there were three brothers, Brandrahoon the vampire, Isranon called the Dawnhand, speaker to spirits, and Waejonan the Accursed, first of sa’necari. Isranon defied his brothers and was destroyed, his descendants forced into the darkness.

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von Darkmoor
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  		   Posted 4/9/2008 11:18 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
cool info, Janrae - thanks!

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PaulMc
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  		   Posted 4/9/2008 11:53 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jack Windsword said...
Agreed.

My original thought was that the association would give it the right light (Frazettian visions of gore and triumph). But if everybody's gonna get hung up on it, then it will be a hinderance instead of a help. Thanks.

Movin' on...

The lost continent of Frazettia! Frazettans!

Actually, out of context, that just seems...Italian.

lol

Janrae might be onto something. Kimmerioi could be a non-overt nod to Howard/Frazetta.

Though, personally, I'd still try to get away from it - even the source word.

-- Paul McNamee

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Hermit
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  		   Posted 4/9/2008 1:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You can't copyright words or titles.
No matter what some editors claim. The law doesn't work like that. You can't even copyright a character name. Or that of an artifact. Copyright does not apply.
Such names can, however, be Trade Marked. So . . . the answer to that question as stated is NO. The question that really needs asked and answered is whether there is a trademark on that term. But since it is taken from the Classics, it is likely public domain.

That being said, I agree to some degree with the above answers. On the other hand, I've seen that word very recently - and I've never read Howard's books [sorry].

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crystalwizard
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  		   Posted 4/9/2008 2:28 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
copyright or not, unless you want everyone to immediately assume you are speaking of Howard's world, and be angry when they find out you aren't, don't use the word.

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cussedness
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  		   Posted 4/9/2008 2:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
With some authors, a word or name can become so firmly lodged in the popular mind than anyone else's use of it is viewed as misleading. So I defintely agree with CW on that one. Which is why I frequently prefer to go back to the linguistic roots of words. Soft C in Latin is usually a hard K in Greek.

Janrae Frank
I have no skeletons in my closet, they are all hanging from the yardarm.

Once there were three brothers, Brandrahoon the vampire, Isranon called the Dawnhand, speaker to spirits, and Waejonan the Accursed, first of sa’necari. Isranon defied his brothers and was destroyed, his descendants forced into the darkness.

The Shadowed Princes
www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook64690.htm?cache
website
www.janraefrank.com
Darkzone
darkzone.yuku.com/

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Jack Windsword
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  		   Posted 4/10/2008 3:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kimmerioi sounds pretty cool, and it still means the same thing. I don't think the latin word will step on any toes. Even better, it's spelled sort of like the names of one of my main characters, which I could use to my advantage.
idea  Thanks for the idea, Janrae! 
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H.P. Lovesauce
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  		   Posted 4/11/2008 10:50 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
lol I like "Simmerian"... barbarians from a land of seething, barely-suppressed rage.
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cussedness
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  		   Posted 4/11/2008 11:09 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
LOL, Lovesauce. How about Boillirians? Boiling over with rage? *sorry, I could not resist the impulse.* OFr bouillir < L. Bullire or IE bheur "to blow up"

Janrae Frank
I have no skeletons in my closet, they are all hanging from the yardarm.

Once there were three brothers, Brandrahoon the vampire, Isranon called the Dawnhand, speaker to spirits, and Waejonan the Accursed, first of sa’necari. Isranon defied his brothers and was destroyed, his descendants forced into the darkness.

The Shadowed Princes
www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook64690.htm?cache
website
www.janraefrank.com
Darkzone
darkzone.yuku.com/

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MichaelEhart
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  		   Posted 4/11/2008 2:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Gimirri is even older. It is the Assyrian version of whatever the heck the actual nomad group was called that Sargon II was fighting when he was killed. Homer most likely based his mythical race Κιμμέριοι on them.
 
And here's a weird one--- the name Gomer comes from that same root. Means hero or fierce-- appropriate.

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Lyn
Today's Word: Sub(sendmoney)liminal



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  		   Posted 4/11/2008 5:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Whatever happened to the Hittites?
btw, that reminds me of the shortest guy in the bible...named Bildad the Shuhite - get it, get it? Shoe height? hehe. oh bother, forget it then...

Lyn from ResAliens
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Jaqhama
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  		   Posted 4/12/2008 4:15 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sumerians were a real race.

I always assumed REH simply changed the spelling to Cimmerians.

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cussedness
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  		   Posted 4/12/2008 7:57 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Howard was very knowledgeable about myth, legend, and classical literature. I think that it is very self-evident in his fiction that he was familiar with Homer.

Janrae Frank
I have no skeletons in my closet, they are all hanging from the yardarm.

Once there were three brothers, Brandrahoon the vampire, Isranon called the Dawnhand, speaker to spirits, and Waejonan the Accursed, first of sa’necari. Isranon defied his brothers and was destroyed, his descendants forced into the darkness.

The Shadowed Princes
www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook64690.htm?cache
website
www.janraefrank.com
Darkzone
darkzone.yuku.com/

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MichaelEhart
Sage



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  		   Posted 4/13/2008 12:11 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No Jaghama--- I am refering to the Kimmerioi--- who were horse barbarians at the time. Sumerians were completely different people, and Sargon II was an Assyrian, not a Sumerian.

Click here to buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2008!
"Without Napier" Every Day Fiction, April 9
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Ricasso Press, Spring 2008
"To Destroy All Flesh" Return of the Sword, Flashing Swords Press, Spring 2008
"Only His Name" Every Day Fiction, March 30
"An Exorcism Straight, Hold the Elvis" They Are Not What They Seem, Janrae Frank, ed., TBA
"The First Trial of Jermaish the King" Flashing Swords #10, May 2008
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"The Stars by Law Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, Journey Books, 2007
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