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Jack Windsword
Stablehand

Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 33

Posted 3/28/2008 2:42 PM (GMT -4)

Experts,

Got a narration question. In a story involving a character that is supposedly from our "real world", how familiar is the narrator allowed to be with that world? In S&S tales where everyone is from the same fantasy world, the narrator can only reference things of that world. But if the main character is from our world, can the narrator reference things from our world?

For example, in a passage that is POV 3rd limited to the main character, if something was the size of a sedan, or had the force of a hand grenade, could the narrator use such a simile? Obviously if it's 3rd limited to someone from the fantasy world, the narrator can only use that character's frame of reference. But if it's limited to the guy from our world...

I guess I'm repeating myself now. (But while I'm at it, where does the narrator stand if POV is 3rd omni?)

Oh and let me also say thank you for all the advice you guys gave me in the "monster" thread. That advice was invaluable.

Jack

MysticWino
anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1565

Posted 3/28/2008 4:58 PM (GMT -4)

I used this in my trilogy. As the novels progressed, the narrative started to replace this world's measures and benchmarks with those learned from the setting world. I did this, against a roar of advice to the contrary, so that the reader can experience the world from the character's point of view. Just keep in mind that some readers prefer to have some concrete idea of where they are and will resent you to hell and back for causing them the slightest bit of discomfort by dislocation. It's a tricky little razor's edge to traverse. IF you use such comparisons, I would say you need to work the narration such that the reader is aware of the protag's thought processes. And nobody's else.

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H.P. Lovesauce
Necronomicondiment

Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 575

Posted 3/28/2008 5:03 PM (GMT -4)

I think what David was trying to say is, "Yes."

Jordan Lapp
ppaL nadroJ

Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2534

Posted 3/28/2008 5:12 PM (GMT -4)

I suppose you could, but remember, one of the reasons people read s&s is to escape the modern world... reintroducing it like that might not be appropriate.

It might also hurt the reader's "sense of wonder". Here they are experiencing something wonderful and magical, and all of a sudden they're reading about Cuisinarts.

Like David says.... you're walking a razor's edge.

Jordan Lapp

Managing Editor

Every Day Fiction

SJHigbee
Neophyte

Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 104

Posted 3/29/2008 5:16 PM (GMT -4)

Regarding your query about a POV being 3rd person omniscient, all advice I've been given about this is - don't. Make your POV omniscient, I mean. An omniscient POV is considered rather old fashioned & out of date. That doesn't stop your POV being 3rd person, however.

Ways you keep your POV from being all-knowing is to not only keep your language bound to your world, but make your internal dialogue v. direct and punchy. You can also anchor your characterisation by giving your protagonist some particular gesture, like a nervous tick, for instance. Make sure that you don't impart any info regarding the storyline & plot while in that POV that your character couldn't know. And you can also have your character wondering what the hell is going on. As long as this isn't overused, it can be a very effective way to point up certain plotlines.

Hope this helps...

www.sjhigbee.com

Lyn
Adopt

Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 1278

Posted 3/29/2008 5:21 PM (GMT -4)

Have you read Stephen Donaldson's The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever? He set the standard, imo, for combining reality and fantasy.

Lyn from Residential Aliens
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crystalwizard
Forum Moderator

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 4601

Posted 3/29/2008 11:39 PM (GMT -4)

If you're writing 1st person, then your narrator shouldn't know any more about the world than the main character reasonably should. The main character is the one doing the narrating.

You're writing 3rd omni, Richard, so your narrator isn't the main character. Your narrator would logically be telling the reader things that the main character couldn't possibly know.

In response to this question:

>For example, in a passage that is POV 3rd limited to the main character, if something was the size of a sedan, or had the force of a hand grenade, could the narrator use such a simile?

The narrator would use those kind of comparisons if the main character is new to the world. If he/she/it has been there a while, then the comparisons would be what is most current to the character's experience.

Look at it from the reverse:

Assume that Wizard Warble just materialized in the middle of downtown Chicago. He would try to mentally explain what he was seeing in terms of his home dimension.

10 years later, after Wizard Warble has spent them living in Chicago, his home world has faded behind every day experiences with rude taxi drivers and ill-fitting suits and ties. Now he thinks in terms that are appropriate to Chicago objects, and uses comparisons to them.

erazmus
Master

Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 4475

Posted 3/31/2008 7:42 AM (GMT -4)

The real answer is, take a look at what you are doing and decide if its working or not. I have seen it done. Heck if you think about it, everything has been done successfully by one writer or another. That doesn't mean you can do anything and get away with it. No writer really can.

You have to be able to judge you own limitations as a writer and decide these things. Of course somethings are much harder to make work than others, and its okay to solicit advice either way.

One of the problems with the technique you postilate is that your modernisms can become dated-- even when the rest of the tale does not. You see this in some older works and with a little thought you can pick it out of current works, seeing comparisons that will not hold up over time. Science fiction is rife with them, of course, but fantasy has them crop up quite often as well.

So remember, cars change size. A Buick isn't as big as it used to be, and someone who grew up in the 90's will picture a different car than someone who grew up in the 60's. Don't confuse the reader, that is probably the primary thing.

Mike

Michael D. Turner
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Anaconda
Neophyte

Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 57

Posted 3/31/2008 10:27 AM (GMT -4)

The word sedan may be meaningful in the USA, and sedan car will probably be approximately interpreted over much of the world. However, it could be taken as the much larger carriage of a train used for the consumption of alcohol.
In British English a sedan (US) is a saloon car; without the qualifier car, saloon could be a bar or hairdressing shop. The only common UK use that I can think of is the historical sedan chair.
If you have real people in the story, your bulky article could be as tall and broad as a man, with a length equal to three (four?) time the height of a man.
Alec Anaconda

Alec Anaconda, author of “Slaves of Janice”, “After Janice” and “Extreme Vengeance”.

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