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| SFReader Forums > SFReader > Ask The Expert > Fights | Forum Quick Jump
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 |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4475 | Posted 3/30/2008 8:13 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
  |  cussedness Adept

       Date Joined Apr 2005 Total Posts : 799 | Posted 3/30/2008 4:59 AM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
  |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4475 | Posted 3/29/2008 3:14 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4475 | Posted 3/29/2008 3:12 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
   |  Charles Gramlich Acolyte

       Date Joined Aug 2007 Total Posts : 269 | Posted 3/29/2008 12:47 PM (GMT -4) |   | | One issue to consider is the scale of the fight. For one on one, or one on two or three, I think you definitely need the terse, quick hitting prose, with few metaphors, few adverbs, and relatively few adjectives. Short sentences and short paragraphs convey the dynamic speed and rhythm you need.
However, for large scale battle scenes, you can add a bit more metaphorical and grand language, as long as the pace still rockets along pretty well.
As someone said, Robert E. Howard did it well. Read his "Sowers of the Thunder" collection for great large scale battles. David Gemmell also does fight scenes well. "The Swords of Night and Day" has some great stuff in it.
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 |  Jaqhama Adventurer

       Date Joined Oct 2007 Total Posts : 403 | Posted 3/29/2008 4:17 PM (GMT 0) |   |
crystalwizard said...I'm going to chime in here and ask a question in return: When sorts of fight scenes bore you when you read them, and what sort hold your attention?
Interesting question CW.
I get bored real quick if the fight scene isn't realistic.
I also don't like technical terms that I don't understand...like the correct use of french for rapier fighting.
Or japanese/chinese/korean expressions for a martial arts fight scene.
I just need to know a sword thrust is a sword thrust and a side kick is a side kick.
What holds my attention...hmmm...tense, brutal, realistic. Both in terms of the actual moves and the writing it takes to describe it.
I cut to the left. I cut to the right.
Two men fell back, bleeding, crying out.
A third lunged at me, blade extended. I slid aside and my own steel seemed to barely touch the side of his neck; yet it was enough to open the vein. He dropped to his knees, already dying.
There was a space about me now.
The others had paused, no longer certain.
I was barely breathing heavily. "Who's next?" I asked.
You can read some of my stories here:
Swamp Story. Down South. Florida Haze.Wild Justice...
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  |  John M. Whalen flashg

       Date Joined Mar 2006 Total Posts : 380 | Posted 3/29/2008 11:42 AM (GMT -4) |   | | Super example, Rob. It reads like a Sam Peckinpah fight scene. The way you intersperse Bill's perceptions in thorough detail in the midst of all the furious action slows the pace down without diluting the violence, reminiscent of Peckinpah's use of slow motion during action scenes. Bravo! | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Rob Mancebo Adept
        Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 892 | Posted 3/28/2008 3:50 AM (GMT -4) |   |
Jack Windsword said... Dear expert,
My fiction severely lags where battles are concerned. What makes a good fight scene?
Examples are appreciated.
Jack
- This is a good area to study.
- There's been lots of good advice given here and I'll try not to just reiterate what's been said.
- Also realize that no matter how good you are at it, someone will argue with you, so just do the best you can. The reason for all the arguement is that people have different personal experiences with fighting and they'll judge your fight scene from their own experience rather than your character's.
The biggest challenge is to thrill your reader. Sometimes it can be done through color, sometimes through action, but you have to get the reader to care. In creating a powerful character, it's easy to lose people's interest. 'He bagged lions by the bushel'. Just doesn't make a good read.
Action without drama: 'The three men went for their guns, but Wild Bill shot them all before they could clear leather. Three more turned from the bar at the sound of gunfire and pulled their pistols. Bill shot two and killed the last with his bowie.'
Same scene, adding drama(Hopefully): The three men went for their guns, but Wild Bill's Navy Colt erupted in a blast of white smoke and orange flame in the lamp-lit bar and the first stranger crumpled. Bill's Colt roared again and the second man folded as though butted by a bull. Bill saw the third man's elbow bend as his revolver pulled free and he snapped a quick shot, low and hard, to spoil his aim. Bill's teeth gritted and his heart hammered as he saw the dark tunnel of the man's gun barrel rising. He cocked his .36 to fire again, but the black barrel wavered and the man collapsed.
"You sonofabit--" A man standing at the bar accused as he went for his gun.
The outlaws had friends! Wild Bill barely had time to realize the trap he'd walked into before he'd put a pistol ball between the gunman's eyes. That man toppled, but there were others grabbing guns. How many? Two moving on his left, at least. The bar was full of powder smoke. He couldn't see clearly. Who was behind him? Were there any of his own friends? "God, not like Abilene," he prayed silently and felt sweat break out on his brow even as he took aim at another man who was clawing for a gun. "Please, not Abilene all over again!"
The fifth man fired, but he fired too fast and the bullet only shattered a picture frame. Bill's fifth shot was careful and lethal. The man's red shirt seemed to be tugged by invisible fingers, eliciting a grunt of surprise, then he fell.
As Wild bill's stinging eyes surveyed the dim scene through the stinking smoke, he heard the four distinct clicks of a Colt cycling in the final man's hand. He aimed and squeezed the trigger without thought. The hollow snap of the hammer falling upon an empty cone was loud among the groans of the dying.
"Empty," a gloating voice called to him, "aren't you?"
He could only make the man out as a shadow in the gloom. Maybe the gunman couldn't see him clearly either. He reached for his knife--
Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore
www.geocities.com/robmancebo/
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 |  MysticWino anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva

       Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 1570 | Posted 3/27/2008 3:49 PM (GMT -4) |   | I agree with R.L. here.
I would also point out that how the experience effects the character, and how said character reacts, is as much characterization as it is action/plot/etc. And people react differently in fights. Some people laugh from nerves, some cry, some purge their bladders, others purge their bowels . . . For myself, I'm manic until the first strike; then I'm weirdly serene until the conflict is over. This is not because I've been in many fights - I make it a habit to avoid them - but because I was in a household in which the belt came out and, as they say, all hell broke out. It was a recurring theme of my childhood from 1970-1977. You get used to being hit, and you can look a guy straight in the eye with your nose broke and tell him to very calmly to back off or suffer the consequences. The adrenal rush comes before and after for those of us blessed with PSTD. When the fight is on, time really does shift to half-speed. Thought ceases. If there is mortal peril, the body takes care of itself. The consciousness insulates itself and the beaten child becomes dissociated from the external world. During that fleeting dissociation, such a person can commit what seem to others as grave atrocities simply because his animal self feels threatens and is driven by the instinct to survive - at whatever cost. So . . . at the end of the fight - that's when you either freak out and stomp and cuss the adrenillin off or you shrug and make some glib comment about "warned ya," or "that was intense".
Another funny thing . . . I have almost no recollection of the serious fights I have been in. I was either too drunk or too freaked to really imprint it on my memory. Stories I've heard from others are certainly interesting, but I don't really recall much detail. And, to be frank, most of those fights were stupid cases of me having to put my ass where my mouth had gotten me. The two worst were cases of butting into someone's else business; trying to play saviour or something. Thank God I lived through that foolishness . . . Read me soon in The Return of the Sword! Blog: http://bitterhermit.wordpress.com Buy wine: http://fringemonkey.org Poetry Blog: http://fringemonkey.wordpress.com | | Back to Top | | |
    |  MysticWino anarchist fringe monkey boddhisatva

       Date Joined May 2007 Total Posts : 1570 | Posted 3/26/2008 5:32 PM (GMT -4) |   | I write slipstream by going slipstream. I coreograph my fights by experiencing them in my imagination. Most of the time, I'm simply describing what I see inside my head. Everything else disappears. So, I usually become the protag or the hero or victor in the melee. Consequently, if I find that I've gotten sloppy on the way to the fight, I'm usually sloppy within it. Which means the fight goes bad until I can turn it.
Advice I usually give in critiques/edits: be brief. Use strong, direct verbs. One action per sentence. Use complex/compound/complex-compound sentences to slow the action or add drama, but never to encompass an entire fight sequence. Nothing is ever 'close' it is either a hit or a miss. Show me the blade swishing past my eyes, don't tell me it missed by a hair's breadth. If the fight goes on and the adrenal surge begins to wear off, show it by picking up details like congealing blood, dragging leg, diminished field of vision due to blood or steel in eye(s), etc.
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 |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4475 | Posted 3/26/2008 3:35 PM (GMT -4) |   | I've thought a bit more about this. I gave a panel on realism in combat in fantasy writing a couple of years back at Mile High Con, so I went back over my notes and, as I thought, my earlier reply missed something.
The tone of the work surrounding the fight scene informs greatly on how you write the fight. Real fights are seldom heroic, comic or in any way glamorous. They are horrific. Scrambling in a dark alley with an unknown man who has a knife is, of itself, something only accuratly described in a horror story. Getting cut, feeling the steel slide through your flesh, the muscles spasming as nerves are severed, the hot, wet sensation of blood running unseen down your arm-- these are things that, if done well, would make your reader shudder. But you don't want your reader to shudder at every combat. Sometimes you want them to exhult at the hero's triumph, laugh, or many another emotional responce. Your fight has to match your story. You couldn't just write a fight scene between two characters and just insert it sequentially in a story about those characters and have it work, except through blind chance. The writing of the fight has to match up with the intended action of the story, it should be at the peak of one of those points on the peak and valley charts some writers use to illustrate novel pacing. Or at least fit into the action of the story. So how you work any given fight may and usually is affected by how you are telling the rest of the tale. You may need to detract from the reality of the combat to focus the fight in a different way, to meet the needs of the story containing it.
Mike Michael D. Turner "Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books www.baen.com "Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6 www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm
"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php "Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html "Morning Coffee" in Every Day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/ "The Jewel Below" in Flashing Swords flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm "Happy Landings" in Every Day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/ "Teller of Tales" in Every day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/ Read "Silver Shells" In Every Day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/silver-shells-by-michael-d-turner/ | | Back to Top | | |
   |  Lyn Adopt

       Date Joined Sep 2007 Total Posts : 1278 | Posted 3/26/2008 12:09 AM (GMT -4) |   | |
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