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| SFReader Forums > SFReader > Ask The Expert > Working Our Way Up the Pay Scale | Forum Quick Jump
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   |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4475 | Posted 3/22/2008 4:16 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  Nicholas Adept

       Date Joined Jun 2006 Total Posts : 977 | Posted 3/22/2008 9:17 PM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
  |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4475 | Posted 3/23/2008 9:19 AM (GMT -4) |   | | | |
 |  RHFay Sage

       Date Joined Nov 2007 Total Posts : 1576 | Posted 3/23/2008 2:09 PM (GMT -4) |   | |
I've said some of this before, but I'll repeat what I said anyway...
Personally, I try to send my poetry to pay markets first, except for certain pieces that were created specifically for certain "4 the luv" markets. I do try to send to "likely" markets first, ones that seem to like my style. Occasionally I will write something with a certain theme for a specific market, like my submissions to Hungur (the theme of that particular market has inspired a few specific works).
I will send my more "general" works to whatever market is open and seems a likely fit (for instance, I wouldn't send a sci-fi poem set in the future or something referencing modern electronics to The Willows). After several rejections of various styles and themes by certain markets, I'm unlikely to send them "more of the same". I might try these markets again, but they wouldn't be my first choice, and I would have to have something significantly different from my usual to send their way. (I'm not trying to "play editor" so much as decide how best to spend my time and effort. Some markets are quite specific about what they will take.)
The higher paying markets may be a bit higher on my list, but only if I don't already have something in their slush. If I do, and they voice a dislike of multiple submissions, I will send elsewhere. I'm also beginning to prefer markets that I've dealt with already, but I'm certainly trying to break into different ones as well. I rarely hold a piece just for a particular market because I feel it would be more worthwhile to send it out and see what happens than letting it sit on my hardrive and hope a specific market will like it.
As for postal submissions, I don't send my poetry through the mail. It's easier to just send electronic submissions. Perhaps I will try to send a poem to Asimov's some time, but the majority of markets that take speculative poetry take (or even prefer) electronic submissions.
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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  |  erazmus Master

       Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 4475 | Posted 3/23/2008 11:54 PM (GMT -4) |   | The whole subscription thing is a seperate but related topic.
I try to get _a_ copy of a recent issue of any print mag or subscription only electronic publication I'm think of submitting to. If I really enjoy the magazine and if I can, I'll subscribe for as long as I can-- I did with Black Gate and do with Weird Tales. But I can't subscribe to everything I'd like to, I certainly can't subscribe to everything I'm likely to submit to. That would take hundreds of dollars a year and I don't usually make hundreds of dollars a year from my writing yet. I can't afford to do it otherwise.
But I don't give up entirely on a pub just because I don't care for what they have been publishing lately. Afterall, they can only select from what comes in. I'm realistic about what to send where when, but I'll still take a flyer on a market I don't care for now and then. Afterall, the editor may have seen the error of his or her's way and take me this time. There is no quicker way to get me to really like most pubs than for them to run a story of mine.
Bear in mind my specific situation may not apply to you. I write Fantasy, Science Fiction, Horror, Crime, Mystery and odd-ball stuff. I'm poor, even by my own standards. If I could I'd subscribe to every dang market out there. If I was smart I'd start a local writers club and get everybody to pool market subscriptions and share out samples. Instead I buy piles of recent back-issue magazines cheap when I can, haunt the local Borders and B&N magazine racks to pick up what I can and muddle through as best I can.
I submit "blind" more often than I'd like. But whats a guy to do, eh?
Mike Michael D. Turner "Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books www.baen.com "Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6 www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm
"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php "Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html "Morning Coffee" in Every Day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/morning-coffee-by-michael-d-turner/ "The Jewel Below" in Flashing Swords flashingswords.sfreader.com/issues/issue8/vol2-iss8-05.htm "Happy Landings" in Every Day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/happy-landings-by-michael-d-turner/ "Teller of Tales" in Every day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/teller-of-tales-by-michael-d-turner/ Read "Silver Shells" In Every Day Fiction www.everydayfiction.com/silver-shells-by-michael-d-turner/ | | Back to Top | | |
  |  John M. Whalen flashg

       Date Joined Mar 2006 Total Posts : 380 | Posted 3/24/2008 7:40 PM (GMT -4) |   | I used to believe in sending stories to the top market first and then work your way down to the freebies. But I quickly learned that without a name and some reputation behind you, you've got as much chance of getting in those publications as a black man had of getting in the KKK. I've only been writing fiction since about 2005. I had years of experience in journalism and non fiction before that. I sold freelance stuff to the Washington Post on films and television. Travel articles for the Washington Times. But it isn't any help at all cracking the fiction markets. So now I write mainly stories I want to write without worrying about what market to send them to. (Although I have to admit the reason I'm writing sci-fi and fantasy is that it seems easier to break into publishing with genre stories than by trying to write for the New Yorker.) Then after they are finished I send them out to whatever paying market looks like they'll take it. I never submit to non-paying markets anymore. I did when I began. But I feel I should get something for my efforts, otherwise its just a vanity trip. My theory is that if I get enough stuff out there with my name on it, word will filter up to the bigger markets, and in time, I'll start sending stuff to Van Gelder, etc again. And if that doesn't happen, I don't really care. I enjoy what I'm doing and that's what matters most to me. And don't get me wrong, I'm writing genre stories because I like them more than literary stories. But I could just as easily turn to private eye, horror, jungle adventure, etc. as scifi and S&S. And if I woke up tomorrow and got an email from an editor at the New Yorker begging for a navel-gazer, I'd be happy to oblige. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  tchernabyelo Acolyte
        Date Joined Oct 2006 Total Posts : 416 | Posted 3/25/2008 7:04 AM (GMT -4) |   | | So far, I have only submit to paying markets, and only very rarely to markets that will pay less than 1 cent per word (I think I have three sales to date that work out below that level). I make no bones about this. While I am aware that it's a very ambitious goal, I do want to be a professional author, and it doesn't feel right, with that goal in mind, to "give" my stories away.
Also, I don't agree with "working your way up". You need to find out how "good" you are in order to improve. Submitting to "4theluv" markets doesn't tell you much. Submitting to paying markets tells you whether or not you are capable of pro level work.
My first ever submission was to a pro rate market, and it sold. I've only had one more pro rate sale since, though. I can sell pretty consistently at the semi-pro level, but it's clear I need to improve further if I want to sell regularly at pro level.
And as for market fit... well, apart from the utterly obvious (don't send fantasy to SF-only markets, etc), I no longer try to second-guess editors. I have sent stuff I thought was absolutely right and been rejected, and I have sent stuff that I was not at all confident of and had it purchased. Let the editor make the decision. Get your work out there, and if it fails at market A, send it to market B, and keep on doing that until either it sells, or you die
Brian Dolton
Yi Qin stories:
"The Box Of Beautiful Things" - IGMS#3
"The Man Who Was Never Afraid" - Abyss and Apex #20
"At Blue Crane Falls" - Abyss and Apex #25 "Where No Wind Blows" - Staffs & Starships #2
"What The Sea Refuses" - Black Gate (forthcoming)
"What The Heart Bears" - Black Gate (forthcoming)
"Above The Clouds" - Paper Blossoms, Sharpened Steel (forthcoming)
Other Land Of Wind And Ghosts stories:
"The Dragon Path" - Fictitious Force (forthcoming)
"Three Out Of Four" - Sorcerous Signals Feb-Apr 08
Stories in other settings:
"The Unicorn Hunter" - OG's Speculative Fiction #8
"Call Centre" - Necrotic Tissue #1
"When Winter Came" - ASIM #32
"Cold Fire" - Flashing Swords #9
"St. Saviour And The Devil's Dandy" - Flashing Swords (forthcoming) | | Back to Top | | |
  |  RHFay Sage

       Date Joined Nov 2007 Total Posts : 1576 | Posted 3/26/2008 2:10 PM (GMT -4) |   |
tchernabyelo said...
...Submitting to "4theluv" markets doesn't tell you much... Since my experience has been mostly with speculative poetry, it may be somewhat different. I think certain "4 the luv" markets can tell you something, depending upon the individual situation. I've dealt with at least one "4 the luv" poetry editor that is also an editor or co-editor at one or two pay markets as well.
Getting into the right "4 the luv" market can start to get your name noticed by editors and other writers - at least a few of the contributors to the above-mentioned market are editors as well. I think if you start sharing enough ToCs, your name will be recognised by editors. Obviously, that doesn't guarantee acceptance, but every little bit helps.
I think "4 the luv" markets should really be judged on a case-by-case basis. And sometimes, in terms of speculative poetry, the difference between a "pay" market and "4 the luv" is only a buck or two. I'm certainly not getting rich off my poetry sales! "I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
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  |  Charles Gramlich Acolyte

       Date Joined Aug 2007 Total Posts : 267 | Posted 4/14/2008 1:01 AM (GMT -4) |   | | Money is always one consideration for me, but not typically the main one. I'll typically submit to paying markets first, but if I have two suitable markets and the one I'd rather be in pays less I'll go for that one. I've also given plenty of stories away essentially because I wanted to be in a particular magazine, or liked the editors, or other writers in the mag. Or because I was asked.
I mean, I know I'm not going to make a living off of short stories, and though I like money as well as the next person, it's not like I'm going to be earning enough to pay my mortgage off a single sale.
The main issues for me are, how much do I want to write a particular tale, how do I feel about it once it's done, and is there a challenge in it for me.
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 |  Rob Mancebo Adept
        Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 892 | Posted 4/14/2008 2:25 AM (GMT -4) |   |
"Who dares wins"
I aim high. When it's rejected, I aim lower. I don't generally waste time on 4thlvof markets because they don't look good on a resumae. If something's not worth anything to a publisher, then I need to work on it until it is. I'll toss it into a file to re-work when I'm better.
I may only get a penny an hour by the time I'm done, but I do get paid. "Amatures give away their work, professionals get paid." (Sometimes I kick myself for hammering out a 10,000 word story and selling it for $10., but then I have to remind myself, it's a hobby, thankfully I don't have to make a living at it. Maybe someday, when I'm better at it . . .
Now there are other sorts of pay than cash though. If I see a project I like or a chance to get feedback--and feedback from honest people who like stories is worth more than semi-pro pay, I'll be glad to put in the work to submit a piece.
I've made more this quarter than I have any year since I've been writing, so I guess the snowball just keeps rolling and getting bigger as time passes. It must be working to some extent.
Maybe I'll be able to claim it as a 'side business' this year rather than a 'hobby'.
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