|
|
|
|
|
| SFReader Forums > SFReader > Ask The Expert > Winchester rifles | Forum Quick Jump
|
 | 
Rob Mancebo
Adept
      
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 987
| Posted 9/1/2007 7:54 PM (GMT -5) |   |
darkbow said...Ya know, on firearms, Rob, I have to agree with everything you said. But about the barbarians ... history shows, they won't come in at the gate, at least not until the very end. They usually slip in through the back door first. Then open the gate for their buddies.
- Thanks.
- I'm afraid I'll have to agree with you too. We've probably already let them in. Now it's just up to us to be strong enough to hold the gate when 'push-comes-to-shove'.
| | Back to Top | | |
|
Rob Mancebo
Adept
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 987
| Posted 8/31/2007 3:58 AM (GMT -5) | | | | |
|
Rob Mancebo
Adept
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 987
| Posted 8/31/2007 3:53 AM (GMT -5) | |
darkbow said...
Oh God, I loved my 586. Definitely the best revolver I've owned. I have no complaints about it at all, other than I don't own it any more.
Rob, for the most part I'll have to agree with you about having a .357 mag revolver over a semi-auto in one of those "end of the world" scenarios. With one possible exception, and this is probably just me. One word: Beretta. I've owned several, all in 9mm (though nowadays I'd probably want at least .40), and ... I don't know, I can't say enough good about the Beretta handguns I've owned. Never a jam. Always accurate. Felt good in my hands. Stayed clean even after tons of rounds were put through them. Honestly, they were better firearms than I am a shooter. And I can't say anything nearly as nice about the other semi-auto handguns I've owned. I know lots of folks rave about Glocks, but I hated the two I owned. - Ah yes, the Beretta. I heard so many grumbles about those when the Army bought them I put off shooting one for about 9 years. When I finally did, I was completely impressed. Very nice auto-pistol. Not just the 9mm either. Had a buddy with a DAO in .40 S&W. It shot sort of like a magazine fed revolver. Probably the nicest .40 I've ever fired. Smooooth!
- However, I'm talking at the level of someone who wants to buy a gun here, not someone with a background of shooting. Even a Beretta has multiple things to remember. What ammo will always cycle, rotating loaded magazines, rack & tap drills for that 'one round' of bad ammo that doesn't fire. A DA revolver can be loaded and stored for decades and will still function perfectly when called upon in an emergency.
- That's why I always suggest a Double-Action revolver to newer shooters. Nothing to think about. You load it and just pull the trigger until it's empty.
- Folks who put in the practice time can make good use of an auto-loading pistol's extreme firepower. With practice, they'll deal with simple problems and not even think about them.
- But a revolver doesn't even necessitate that. You pull the trigger and, if a round doesn't fire, you just pull it again--boom.
- A Glock is a good 'GI gun'. Simple, solid, easy to repair, easy to shoot. No bells & whistles. Just throws out rounds. Lots of 'nicer' guns but I don't think that makes them 'better'. Of course, when we have a personal choice, we all like to have something that fits our hands--that's always an individual choice.
- In selling pistols, which I did for several years, I just let someone handle similar products in Glock, Ruger, Colt, Sig-Sauer, and Smith & Wesson. Any of them would be a good, reliable shooter, the deciding factor is- what fits the user. What they're comfortable with. Which weapon they can handle the best.
- Finest way to tell is for the purchaser to rent the type gun they want to buy and give it a try.
- Most guns will fire better than the skill of the user. Some even surprise you. The first time I fired a Sig 9mm, I had the Target out to about 10 yards, just to give it a try(can't sell it if you haven't tried it.) I popped off three rounds and hit the return while grumbling to a buddy about how the grip was a little too wide for my hand. When the target showed three holes touching each other in the 10-ring I amended my complaint with . . ."But I guess I could get used to it."
- The best is worth your money if you're going to really use it. However, it would be a waste to spend $1,000 on a percision handgun to use in an 'emergency' when a $230 shotgun would do the job as-well or better.
- Oh, for those who might be seduced by the shine of a cheap, chrome-plated autoloader. A cheap double-action revolver can still be a solid, functional sidearm (a Taurus or Rossi still shoot well at 2/3 the price of a Smith & Wesson). But a cheap auto-loader is generally a good weight to send down your fishing line to knock loose your favorite bass lure when it gets hung up on some weeds.
- A good Auto-loader is a clever machine, a masterpiece of simplicity and functionality. Cheap auto-loaders are pretty much junk. Nothing to trust your life to . . . and what else would they be for?
- One AM . . . better get off the soap box and let someone else pontificate for a while.
Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore www.geocities.com/robmancebo/ | | Back to Top | | |
|
MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2352
| Posted 8/30/2007 6:31 PM (GMT -5) | | Ummmm.... gun porn!
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
| | Back to Top | | |
|
Frank Byrns
Neophyte
Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 84
| Posted 8/30/2007 4:54 PM (GMT -5) | | | | |
|
Rob Mancebo
Adept
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 987
| Posted 8/30/2007 1:13 PM (GMT -5) | |
H.P. Lovesauce said...
David BH Pitchford said...
Plus 200 cartons of Dunhill reds, fourty-one cases of Johnnie Walker red, and a roll of Charmin quilted.
Uh, uh, b'duh... I hadn't thought that far ahead.
Thanks all for the recommendations. I'll look at something like the zombie apocalypse/home defense breakdown when it comes time, for sure
- It sounds like Dave has all the bases covered 
- What you need to do is figure out what 'might' happen and what you need to deal with it. WIll you need to be hunting? Chasing off: burglars, bears, rioters, vandals, feral dogs, jack-booted nazi storm troopers (or zombies)?
- Examples: Major riot in your city= a pump shotgun. A handgun for backup gets you a +10 as a 'just in case'.
- A pack of feral dogs attaking your cabin= repeating rifle (any caliber) lever-action or semi-auto although a pump shotgun will do also a good job.
- A hurricane sweeps away chunks of your city and crazed, starving druggies are loose pillaging (hit like New Orleans) Semi-auto with extra magazines. Time to be able to hit someone who might be shooting at you and not run out of ammo.
- Door-to-door fighting in the streets (take-over by zombies, storm troopers, or local terrorist cells)= a semi-auto rifle with extra magazines. +10 for a scope. +10 for a back-up handgun.
- Calibers: You need 'enough' gun. Sometimes bigger calibers are actually cheaper because of the volum used by the public. 12 gauge shotgun shells are cheaper than 10,16, or 20 gauge.
For shotguns I would only suggest a 12 gauge. It's the cheapest to buy and feed.
For rifles- either a 5.56mm (M-16/AR15) or 7.62X39 (AK-47-type) I sugget these because they are powerful 'enough' and surplus ammo is cheaper than anything else you'll find. Buy a sealed, surplus case of ammo and it should be good for the next 50 years. Either caliber is accurate out to several hundred yards and will easily go through a car door someone's using for cover.
Handguns- A double-action .357 Magnum revolver with speed loaders. The police carried these for years. Their fight-stopping statistics match any other handgun out there and, unlike automatics, they'll shoot any ammo you can cram into them, (odd factory ammo or crummy re-loads) in either .38 special or .357 Magnum.
(An automatic is an expert's gun. They can be crankey and jam for many-many reasons. A double-action revolver is forgiving of ammo, neglect, ignorance, and abuse.)
So, figure out what you want to do with it. That will dictate what you need.
Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore www.geocities.com/robmancebo/ | | Back to Top | | |
|
Rob Mancebo
Adept
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 987
| Posted 8/30/2007 4:53 AM (GMT -5) | |
darkbow said...
However, being fairly experienced with them from my cowboy action shooting days, I love lever-action rifles. My favorite was always a Marlin in .357 magnum, which also took .38s. I wouldn't suggest using .357 mags in the house, but .38s would be safer. - Actually, I spoke with a victim of a 'home-invasion' who defended himself with a .38 and his biggest complaint was that the .38s didn't go through the walls. After he downed the first one who kicked through the door, the others stayed outside shooting through his windows at him.
- He replaced the .38 (the police confiscated as 'evidence') with a .357 Mag and wanted rounds that would go through the wall to go with it. I sold him some Magnum 'pig' loads with heavy slugs. - He reported that was a very BAD feeling, to have them riddling his house from just outside and to not be able to penitrate their cover.
- He said it was all over in seconds. If he hadn't been carrying the pistol he would've been dead. He dialed 911 . . . and they were coming through the door. His voice shook when he talked about it and I read about it later in the news.
- The nice thing about a .357 Mag, you can fire light target loads to learn on, and a tremendous variety of combat loads:38 Special, .38+P, .38+P+, .357Mag, It's the closest thing to a 'one-gun-does-it-all' there is.
Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore www.geocities.com/robmancebo/ | | Back to Top | | |
|
Rob Mancebo
Adept
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 987
| Posted 8/30/2007 4:26 AM (GMT -5) | |
H.P. Lovesauce said...
I'm relatively convinced Western society is going down the crapper more quickly than I can eat myself to death, so I'm looking at buying a rifle as soon as The Signs are sufficient and the Seven Seals start snapping like so many firecrackers on a string.
So I'm thinking lever-action and notice the Winchester Type 94 was only recently retired. Was the 92 the "classic" Western Winchester? And, are closed-loop levers like in all the Westerns something you have to retrofit? I visited the largest collection of Winchester rifles--located in a cheerless truck-plaza cube in Montana in which the pink neon inside drowns out the glow of video slot machines--and none of them had loops.
So, will I need a loop conversion? More caffeine? Thanks for answering; mostly I was just sick of looking at the "thief of bagdad" subject line. Nothing against Steve Reeves, thieves, Baghdadis, Baghdadi thieves, or Arabs in general.
- Okay, first of all, a gun is like a car, it has specific uses. A Winchester 94 is a great gun. Although it shoots a rather moderate round for these days. In 30-30 it's considered a mid-range deer rifle.
- Don't buy a jeep when you need a stationwagon, don't buy a Cobra GT when all you need is a Toyota.
- As nice as it is, it's not a great rifle for . . . when they come. (You have to do the paranoid eye thing when you say that . . . when they come  ) Whoever 'they' might be.
-
A little history about 'classic' Winchesters:
The Henry/Winchester 66 this is most diserving of the title of 'the gun that won the west'. Indians and whites both loved them. They shot a mid-power pistol cartridge with a nice, big slug. Think of it as the 'MP-5' submachinegun of it's day. The rimfire round was only loaded with about 22 grains of powder so it pretty much sucked for any game larger than a man. (produced from 1860-1898 = 180,000+)
The Winchester 73- A little better gun with a much better round. This guy fired a .44-40. That's a .44 slug with nearly twice the powder of that M-66. That made for a much better hunting weapon. The 44-40 was also a good chambering for the Colt revolver. (1873-1919 720,000+)
The Winchester 76- Ah, the first Winchester that boasted calibers powerful enough to really hunt with. 40-60, 45-65, 45-75 & 50-90 (1876-1897 63,000+)
The Winchester 1886- 45-75 to 50-110 'express' this one was a good buffalo gun . . . except the buffalo were already gone.) 1886-1935 160,000 +/-
The Winchester 1892- 32-20, 38-40 & 44-40 . 1892-1941 1,004,067 made. (No wonder Hollywood liked using these in the 1950s & 60s movies)
The Winchester 1894 1894- (recently ceased) 25-35,30-30, 32-40, 38-55 Production to 1975 3,000,000+
So the old 1866 was the real 'gun that won the west', but smart shooters traded it in for the 1894 for hunting purposes. 'Smart shooters' being folks like the famous 'Range Detective' (read that as Professional sniper) Tom Horn and folks on both sides of the Mexican Revolution. Everyone loved that old 30-30.
Now days, if you want a rifle , you can pick up a Chinese SKS or AK-47 clone (depending on your state laws) for $200-$500 that fires a similar round to the 30-30 (7.62X39) as fast as you can pull the trigger. Surplus ammo is available by the box or by the case for a fraction of what hunting ammo costs so they're good guns to get in some target practice with.
- Remembering that a rifle will shoot through walls and cars (which is good in many tactical situations but not popular with any next-door-neighbors) A shotgun is cheap, reliable, lethal under 50 yards and--above all-- really-really scary to someone kicking in your front door.
- A good 12 G pump gun will take care of any urban problems in short order(riot, robbery, bears in the back yard, lions in the garage . . . You can laugh but I knew a guy who lived in Colorado who had a mountain Lion in his garage once--not a good time to be without a gun.)
- So, figure out what you want to do with it--then decide what to buy. Don't let someone sell you a Ferarri when you only need a Toyota 4X4.
- Get something you'll be comfortable with and something you can count on to do the job you've chosen.
Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore
www.geocities.com/robmancebo/ | | Back to Top | | |
| | |