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| SFReader Forums > SFReader > Ask The Expert > Chaos Magick | Forum Quick Jump
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|  Laura Stamps Neophyte

       Date Joined Jun 2007 Total Posts : 134 | Posted 7/17/2007 7:47 AM (GMT -5) |   |
Daniel said... I don't think aspirant magicians need teachers, necessarily. I think teachers could be a very bad thing in magick because the idea of organization and hierarchy always allow for the intrusion of vanity and "earthly" awareness.
The BEST teacher will be your magickal guide, as I tried to sketch out upstream. Calling on the Guide may also produce synchronous meeting: meaning you may meet an actual, physical teacher to compliment your psychic guide. But even without a physical teacher, you can learn everything you need to know about magick purely from your own consciousness and soul.
Magick is revealed knowledge and all magickal practices are diametrically opposite of earthly practices. You don't "teach" or "learn" the same way as you do for non-magickal pursuits. Simple quite and solitude will almost ALWAYS bring about the initiation of magickal consciousnes, period.
People fear deserted spaces, prolonged solitude, and other lonely "haunted" landscapes, precisely because their ego-based consciousness recognizes these places as a good bet for the intiation of magickal or transcendant consciousness, which, obviously, poses a threat to the ego-based consciousness and its strangelhold on "reality."
There is a good reason I am a solitary Wiccan. It seems I cannot be involved in a Pagan forum or group without being bashed by someone (or many someones), because my practice does not follow academic book-learning. These Witches/Pagans often tell me if some great magickal person (or God/Goddess) didn't experience what I have experienced then mine has no validity. Believe me, I didn't plan it this way, it just happend. Like everyone esle, I read books in the beginning to learn magick and to feel my way through the Pagan maze of faiths and religions. But at some point, I stopped, because I found the teaching and guidance I received from the Spirits I can call on so readily became more vaild for me. And you'll find none of it in books, which makes me vulnerable to bashers. I have to admit I groaned when Daniel told me about this thread. I have gotten to the point where it makes me very uncomfortable to talk about my unusual views on magick, simply because I know I'm going to irritate some Witch or Pagan since my learning isn't "academic book/teacher/coven" learning. So you can imagine how delighted I was to hear you make this statement. In my case, yes, I totally agree!
I also enjoyed your comments about solitiude. I crave it, and must have some every day. I think my solitude time requirement is greater than some people, because I find it is the only way I can refuel and connect with the root of my being every day. I think some of this comes from being an Empath and giving so much of myself to others every day for healing. And some of this comes from the connection I have with the spirtits. They talk to me 24/7. Yes, I often hear them talking to me while someone else is talking to me, or while I am I am talking to someone. A 3-way conversation is the norm for me. In fact, my latest interview a few weeks ago was a podcast interview. In the middle of that interview I suddenly began to hear the spiritual voice of the cat who belongs to the woman interviewing me. She was telling me about her cat, but I heard little of it. Instead I was listening to the voice of her cat telling me about its past life experiences. When the woman stopped talking I told her what her cat said to me.
But it is refreshing to my core being to just be able to sit in solitude and listen to the spirits with no noise to distract me. I find I need at least an hour or more of this every day. Otherwise I feel fragmented and out of balanced and totally depleted of life essence. So, yes, solitude can reveal galaxies of information to help one along the magickal path. Laura Stamps
"Magickal Urban Fantasy Novels (Collectible, small press, signed editions)"
Kittyfeather Press
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 |  Laura Stamps Neophyte

       Date Joined Jun 2007 Total Posts : 134 | Posted 7/17/2007 8:12 AM (GMT -5) |   |
Rob Mancebo said...
- An example is, someone suddenly 'speaking in tongues' in a church. Although its Biblical, someone exhibiting something esoteric like that can break up a church very quickly. It's just too much for many folks.
Okay, here's another oddity about me. I can speak in tongues, and do so every day, especially when I am driving in my car, simply because it is one of those "solitude" times for me every day. To give you a quick recap of my spiritual history, I was raised in the Epsicopal church. It just didn't click for me, so I began searching and attended many churches until I found the Charismatic church, a fundementalist church that believes in divine healing, prosperity, and speaking in tongues. That really clicked for me, and I became a born-again Christian, read every word of the Bible, and studied it intensively for years. The Charsmatic faith worked for me because they very much believe in God/Jesus, etc, speaking to you, so the spirits I have always heard since childhood finally had a place in a structured religion. Then I really wanted to learn how to speak in tongues. Usually they just lay hands on you, and it happens. But it didn't for me. Then I realized there was something they weren't telling people, and that was sometimes it can take a month to happen, that you have to learn how to coax it out, and once you do, that's it, it's here to stay. So I taught myself how to do it and have been speaking in tongues ever since. And I can still teach people how to do it if they want to learn.
But then in the early 90s I wrote a series of anthologies (poetry, fiction, nonfction) that the feminists just loved and bought like crazy, especially the spiritual feminists, which I didn't know existed. Turns out they were Witches. I looked into Wicca and realized this is what I had been searching for. You know how that is. Every cell of your body is finally satisfied with a spiritual path, and you just know in your heart this is what you have been searching for all your life. So I became a Wiccan and have been ever since. But an Ecelectic Wiccan, because there are bits and pieces of Christianity (St. Mary, the rosary) and Taoism (another religion I really like) mixed in with it. And I still speak in tongues. Christians would say it is impossible, but there it is. Jesus has also appeared to me 3 times. Wow. That's an experience you can't forget. And he's not mad at me either for leaving the Christian church. In fact he really doesn't act very Christian to tell you the truth, more Pagan and magickal than anything else. So you add the spirits and the tongue-talking and the Empathic/psychic talents to this, and you have me. A verrry Eclectic Wiccan Witch. Laura Stamps
"Magickal Urban Fantasy Novels (Collectible, small press, signed editions)"
Kittyfeather Press
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 |  H.P. Lovesauce Necronomicondiment

       Date Joined Jul 2007 Total Posts : 585 | Posted 7/17/2007 2:21 PM (GMT -5) |   |
Alan of The Word said...
Daniel said...
I think Waite's assertion that all magick is, at heart, "black" in that consists of the magician's conscious attempt to channel Divine and magickal powers toward personal ends, is a very good insight into the black/white debate regarding magick.
I think it's important with any magic to consider that it could be black. Starting from that standpoint will give you a moral compass to be guided by. BTW, love the username H P Lovesauce. :)
Thank you, Alan. I'd like to think the name as being the touch of Divine inspiration to two minds working together, with Labatt's Blue as the medium of transmission. ;)
You give an excellent "true north" for the magician's moral compass, an excellent way of looking at what Daniel calls ego-contamination.
Honestly, this is the best discussion of magic I've seen in 20 years of being online. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Rob Mancebo Adept
        Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 987 | Posted 7/17/2007 8:56 PM (GMT -5) |   |
Laura Stamps said...
Then I really wanted to learn how to speak in tongues. Usually they just lay hands on you, and it happens. But it didn't for me. Then I realized there was something they weren't telling people, and that was sometimes it can take a month to happen, that you have to learn how to coax it out, and once you do, that's it, it's here to stay. - Glenn Morris brings this up in 'Path Notes'. He even suggested that this might well have happened to Saul of Tarsus (St Paul). Saul held the people's cloaks when they stoned Stephen then later was struck down by a holy vision and converted. Sounds like, when man-handling Stephen, the Saint passed spirit into Saul through touch. It took time, but it worked its way through him.
- Japanese Rei-ki healing can be passed through touch.
- Chinese Chi Kung energy can be passed on through touch.
- Eastern Parnic healing may be passed on through touch.
- Western Hands-on healing is transmitted through touch.
- Coincidence? Or maybe all various religions are a human attempt to describe a source that is greater than our ability to comprehend.
All are correct, revealing what they see, all are wrong because they can never comprehend the whole of the universal spirit.
Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore www.geocities.com/robmancebo/ | | Back to Top | | |
    |  Daniel Carl Jung's Waterboy

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 4515 | Posted 7/18/2007 4:19 PM (GMT -5) |   | 'I don't think the human soul is so fragile that merely dipping into it will cause any kind of damage to the soul.'
- I agree. The danger is not any demons without, but the demons within(ego/fear) and yet these can be a real detriment if not correctly handled.
- Without the support of a group or a teacher, a beginner is liable to hear something go 'bump in the night' or face down some inner demon and run from anything magickal ever after. Very counter-productive.
***
Excellent points!
Although I won't personally endorse the idea of teachers for magick, I don't disapprove of them, either! Whatever works. Dogma is a dangerous commodity, however; that's one of the ironies of modern chaos magick: so many parcticioners "laying down the law" of magick. Ugh. When conversations or practices of mysticism begin to partake of the same ole hierarchical will to power that often sours our everyday life, I run in the opposite direction. LOL
I don't trust "conservation" of power or the revelation of "truth" in occultism or magick as it relates to individual distinction or acuity.
My insistence on this rejection of hierarchies and "titles" pertaining to magick is certainly a personal motivation brought on by my own desires and ambitions. But my feelings about this are based in practice, that is: a pesistent "vibe" is associated with magickal practices in my mind, one which suggests a universal equality of soul, or rather, a strata of soul-experience wherein differences are not acknowledged based around the idea of "better or worse" but of respective completion, like a jigsaw puzzle where *all* the pieces are different but equally functional and intregal to the overall picture.
"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."
Daniel | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Daniel Carl Jung's Waterboy

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 4515 | Posted 7/18/2007 4:46 PM (GMT -5) |   | - Without the support of a group or a teacher, a beginner is liable to hear something go 'bump in the night' or face down some inner demon and run from anything magickal ever after. Very counter-productive.
***
Yes, I don't mean to downplay this aspect of magick, especially ritual magick -- which can, certainly, be rife with unsettling experiences and...revelations. After-all, as we have been saying: magick is an attempt to attain communion with a higher consciousness and as such it can prove unsettling to our everyday minds, to which most of us are deeply attached and protective of by necessity, as well as by social conditioning.
I think my answer is this: by the time an aspirant magician has taken the steps necessary to begin construction of ritual space and implements and to study (not yet perform) the elementary practices of summoning, spellcasting, divination, and binding (among others) they will have developed a degree of courage to help them to take the next needed steps.
That is why a certain degree of tradition is necessary. Merely following the classical methods of self-initiation and building and consecrating the sacred space and materials will help develop the aspirant's magickal courage and self-confidence. The traditional methods have evolved wisely in that they do tend to break in aspirants slowly.... If one "leaps" ahead they may find something unsettling, they may merely flop altogether and then believe, as you wisely mentioned, that stupid old magick just doesn't work.
Let's keep in mind two key points of my subjective personal beliefs which I've been trying to be careful to repeat again and again:
1) The "Call" to become a magician represents not only the ego-based will of the magician but the Divine Will in equal proportions. SO, if you want to be a magician, it is, in my opinion, because you are being summoned by a higher-consciousness which is using magick, among many other things, to help reveal to you the Divine and universal nature of consciousness. SO, really nothing to be afraid of there because we accept that it is a Divine Call.
2) "There is a magick behind the magick." No magician can perform a magickal operation which is not, at heart, a portion and part of Divine Will. So, if you are frightened repeatedly, enough to be scared away from magick altogether, that is OK. You may try again later or maybe something else will work better. There's nothing inherently better about magick as a mode of self-knowledge and mystical initiation over -- say -- hiking or mountain climbing. It's OK to come up a croppers as far as ritual magick goes, doesn't mean much in the long run I don't think.
For those who are courageous enough to see it through (just as for those courageous enough to hike deep woods or climb high mountains) some spectacular views certainly do await!!!!
And obviously, you make a great point about guides and teachers: one always needs help.
I suggest a magickal guide and the copious reading of magickal tomes and the participation in some traditional method of ritual magick, say kabbalah or candle-magick, along with divination methods (most if not all of which can also be studied as magickal theory: astrology, Tarot, runes, etc are great examples of this). I think magickal knowledge is revealed, not learned, at least not in traditional ways, so if you have a teacher, you'd better be lucky and get a good one. I personally have my doubts, but that's just me... LOL
Lastly, I'm not saying that magick is a quick route to anything. There are immediate benefits and they are magnificent and beautiful and long-lived. However, the study and practice of magick is pursued, like any art (or science), over the course of a lifetime and one experience have many trials and tribulations along the way.
Hence, my advice to summon a magickal guide first. And stick with it; it is your best-friend if you want to be a magician!
"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."
Daniel | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Laura Stamps Neophyte

       Date Joined Jun 2007 Total Posts : 134 | Posted 7/18/2007 5:38 PM (GMT -5) |   |
Daniel said...And I still speak in tongues. Christians would say it is impossible, but there it is. Jesus has also appeared to me 3 times. Wow. That's an experience you can't forget. And he's not mad at me either for leaving the Christian church. In fact he really doesn't act very Christian to tell you the truth, more Pagan and magickal than anything else. So you add the spirits and the tongue-talking and the Empathic/psychic talents to this, and you have me. A verrry Eclectic Wiccan Witch *** Beautiful!!! Laura, I love the way you've integrated your magickal consciousness into your fiction and poetry! Yes, I've only read snippets, but even so, I can feel your voice. Also present in your excellent postings here.
Thanks, Daniel, I'm so glad you've enjoyed my postings here, as well as my poems and the first chapters from my novels on my websites. Hearing that makes my day, truly.
In fact, I thought about you this afternoon. Trytium Publishing will now be publishing my "Witchery" series of novels (we're still working out the final details, but it's a done deal). And the first novel will be called The Witches of Dixie: Book One of the Witchery Series. It will include all 4 of the novels and novellas on my website. So for the last two weeks I have been combining all those novels and novellas in one coherent form for this big new book, which will be published this fall. This afternoon I have been editing a part of one of those books that features all kinds of rituals, including a really neat banishing ritual, among others, all taken from my personal BOS. It made me smile and think of you, because these are rituals one Witch (Nadine) is teaching to her friend (Mirabella) who wants to become a Witch. And Nadine has used many of the basic tools and ritual structures you have talked about in this thread.
You and I are kindred magickal spirits for sure! Laura Stamps
"Magickal Urban Fantasy Novels (Collectible, small press, signed editions)"
Kittyfeather Press
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 |  Rob Mancebo Adept
        Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 987 | Posted 7/19/2007 1:48 AM (GMT -5) |   |
Daniel said...
I suggest a magickal guide and the copious reading of magickal tomes and the participation in some traditional method of ritual magick, say kabbalah or candle-magick, along with divination methods (most if not all of which can also be studied as magickal theory: astrology, Tarot, runes, etc are great examples of this). I think magickal knowledge is revealed, not learned, at least not in traditional ways, so if you have a teacher, you'd better be lucky and get a good one. I personally have my doubts, but that's just me... LOL . . .
. . .Hence, my advice to summon a magickal guide first. And stick with it; it is your best-friend if you want to be a magician!
- Good advice about copious reading. I must also suggest being around spiritually active people. Spirit is catching if you are open and it fires the mind and body. Energy is passed through teaching but also through just being around high-caliber folks. Not stogy, dogmatic people, but people on fire with the spirit or in high states of enlightenment. It's very cool to have spiritual questions answered and 'flow with the spirit'. I've experienced great power from Christians, Wiccans, Hindus, Yogis, and Kabbalahists. Great to have folks help you along your path (you don't have to follow theirs to appreciate them.)
Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore www.geocities.com/robmancebo/ | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Laura Stamps Neophyte

       Date Joined Jun 2007 Total Posts : 134 | Posted 7/20/2007 7:54 AM (GMT -5) |   |
We've been talking a lot here about the basics of ritual, tools used in ritual, and the thinking/faith behind magick, spellcasting, and ritual. I have suggested this thread to several members I know, and they have enjoyed it, but also said because they do not practice magick, they felt a little lost trying to follow all the info, which many times lists terms and practices they don't understand.
So for those visitors to this thread I thought it might be fun to post a segment from my forthcoming novel THE WITCHES OF DIXIE: Book One of the Witchery Series, to be published by Trytium Publishing in the next few months. In this scene, a Wiccan Witch (Nadine) is helping her artist friend (Mirabella) through a financial crisis by performing a "Banishing Poverty Spell" in her studio. All the spells, rituals, and chants in my novels are real and come from my personal BOS (Book of Shadows). So for anyone interested, this is how a very Eclectic Wiccan Witch does it.
************
Saturday morning, and Nadine knocks on the studio door. She carries three small pots of basil in a cardboard box. "According to Hindu mythology, Lakshmi inhabits basil, charging it with money attracting power," she says, "and as the plants grow, so will your success and prosperity."
She places the box in front of a sunny window and turns around, hands on her hips.
I know that look and wonder what she’s planning.
“I think we should cast a Banishing Poverty Spell today,” Nadine says. “What do you think?”
I smile. “Great idea. Let’s do it!”
She walks to the middle of the studio and moves my easel and a few stools out of the way, explaining Saturdays are best for performing banishing spells, especially if it is the time of a Waning Moon. “In ten minutes we’ll enter the hour of Saturn, the Banishing Hour.”
She moves one of the stools to the middle of the room. “This will be our altar,” she says. “Stand next to it while I prepare the tools for the spell.”
She lifts a piece of parchment paper from her tote bag and writes the word POVERTY across it, placing the paper on the stool. Then she moves a candle next to it. “The hour of Saturn has arrived,” she says, glancing at her watch. “Do the grounding meditation I taught you.”
I close my eyes, visualizing the energy in my body flowing down through my feet into the ground, where the Earth cleanses and empowers it and then shoots it back up into my feet. It rises through the top of my head and then back down again into the Earth, a waterfall of energy. I repeat this visualization three times, and when I open my eyes I feel refreshed and ready for magick.
Nadine positions burning candles at the four compass points of the circle, symbolizing the Watchtowers of the four directions. The candle on the altar stool remains unlit. “Ready?”
I nod.
She lifts her wand with her right hand, walking slowly in a clockwise direction, sprinkling salt in a circle with her left hand around the altar, saying, “I cast this circle around the ground to protect us while our magick abounds.” The salt circle complete, she raises her wand to each direction, calling for the Guardians of the East, South, West, and North to protect and assistance in the working of our spell. Then she asks Lakshmi for her blessing.
Nadine turns to me. “We’re going to say this spell together as we walk around the altar, okay?”
She begins to walk in a widdershins direction around the stool, and I follow her. Together we say, “ Poverty, I banish you in the name of the Lady and the Lord. Poverty, I command you to leave this studio now and never come back!”
We circle the altar stool thirteen times, repeating the spell each time, Nadine’s wand points toward the paper, charging it with the cone of power we’ve raised. Her wand shimmers in the sun, a beautiful creation handcrafted for her by a woodcarver friend, rose quartz crystals wired at each end, painted fairies dancing up and down the length of it.
Nadine stops and lifts the parchment. She lights the candle on the altar. Holding the paper over it, she says, ”As the cleansing flame of fire burns this paper to ash, so poverty leaves Mirabella’s life forever and at last.”
After she opens the circle, we walk to the studio sink and wash the ashes down the drain, visualizing poverty flowing from my life for good.
“Let’s celebrate our magick,” Nadine says, her eyes sparkling, and we head to the kitchen for a tasty snack.
(c) Laura Stamps Laura Stamps
"Magickal Urban Fantasy Novels (Collectible, small press, signed editions)"
Kittyfeather Press
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 |  Rob Mancebo Adept
        Date Joined Jul 2005 Total Posts : 987 | Posted 7/20/2007 8:45 AM (GMT -5) |   |
Laura Stamps said...
So for those visitors to this thread I thought it might be fun to post a segment from my forthcoming novel THE WITCHES OF DIXIE: Book One of the Witchery Series, to be published by Trytium Publishing in the next few months. In this scene, a Wiccan Witch (Nadine) is helping her artist friend (Mirabella) through a financial crisis by performing a "Banishing Poverty Spell" in her studio. All the spells, rituals, and chants in my novels are real and come from my personal BOS (Book of Shadows). So for anyone interested, this is how a very Eclectic Wiccan Witch does it.
Thanks for sharing, Laura.
> >
For those not familiar with some of the terms:
> >
Cast a circle- A circle of protection that outside interference may not penetrate. This is used throughout many magical disciplines and religions.
> >
Widdershins- counterclockwise.
> >
Lady and Lord- Wicca is an eclectic, modern creation that draws upon the pantheon and beliefs of many old and ancient mystic traditions. Most practitioners identify the 'Lord and Lady' as the male & female manifestations of the ultimate divine but some, leaning more toward specific traditions, will identify them with ancient deities. It is a very diverse religion, personal to the practitioner.
> > Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore
www.geocities.com/robmancebo/ | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Laura Stamps Neophyte

       Date Joined Jun 2007 Total Posts : 134 | Posted 7/20/2007 2:03 PM (GMT -5) |   |
Daniel said...Great posts, guys!!!! I think we may need to start part 2 of this thread soon; it is getting pretty long. Some good thoughts are liable to get "lost" down this deep in any thread. And the thread still hasn't even covered spellcasting or chaos magick techniques, proper. You two really know your stuff!
Thanks!
I agree. We are getting an amazing amount of views for this thread. If there is anything of mine posted on this third page you would like to move to the new thread, that's fine with me.
Let me know when you start the new thread, and what you are calling it. This has been big fun!! Laura Stamps
"Magickal Urban Fantasy Novels (Collectible, small press, signed editions)"
Kittyfeather Press
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 |  Firlefanz Sage

       Date Joined Mar 2007 Total Posts : 1246 | Posted 7/20/2007 3:51 PM (GMT -5) |   | | | |
  |  Daniel Carl Jung's Waterboy

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 4515 | Posted 7/27/2007 3:57 PM (GMT -5) | |
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