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Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy



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   Posted 8/6/2007 3:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am sorry I have let this thread languish!!! I've been getting pretty busy with my freelance writing work again. Crunch-time as it were lol

As soon as I can I'll pick back up with spellcasting, proper, and Chaos Magick techniques....

Meanwhile, anyone who wants to pick up the thread, feel free to do so!


"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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Laura Stamps
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   Posted 7/27/2007 4:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ha!  Actually, I figured you've just been as slammed this week as I have.  It's been a very hectic month.  smilewinkgrin


Laura Stamps
"The Witchery Series" (Magickal Urban Fantasy Novels)
Kittyfeather Press
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Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy



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   Posted 7/27/2007 4:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You never covered Chaos magick techniques/spellcasting, and I want to hear all about that

***

But of course! I just stumbled off the path for a minute!


"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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Laura Stamps
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   Posted 7/27/2007 4:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Daniel said...

Magick is not a struggle or a path of antagonism. To me it is natural as breathing or laughing or admiring the summer sky....

Exactly.  For an eclectic Witch like me, magick is my life.  It's the only way I can think to describe it.  It is my first response to anything, all day long...meaning spells, prayers, and chants come out of me all day long in response to everything.  They are in no way as structured as ritual, but just a direct response flowing out of me at any time...a chant, prayer, or spell spoken directly with simple words to the spirits I am summoning or appealing to.  It's like breathing for me.  I think after so many years it has become a part of my cells, even my genetic code (grin).
 
BTW, it is great to see you back here at this thread, Daniel.  You never covered Chaos magick techniques/spellcasting, and I want to hear all about that.   yeah


Laura Stamps
"The Witchery Series" (Magickal Urban Fantasy Novels)
The first chapter of each novel is posted online
Kittyfeather Press
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Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy



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   Posted 7/27/2007 3:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"pure Will, unassuaged of purpose and delivered from lust of result, is in every way perfect."

***

Yes.


"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy



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   Posted 7/27/2007 3:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It seems the legacy Crowley leaves for each magician is "enough rope".

***

Sure. Crowley is an important magician no doubt about it; he crowds into every conversation about magick. However, his vision was very personal and frought with antagonism and struggle. Most people shouldn't follow in Crowley's footsteps.

And on actual ritual: Crowley is a beast. Ceremonial magick, to me, is an unwieldy form. I remember when Crowley conjured up his HGA in a certain ritual the first thing it said was "Why are you doing all this stupid magick?" LOL Quite instructive, that.

Magick is not a struggle or a path of antagonism. To me it is natural as breathing or laughing or admiring the summer sky....


"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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H.P. Lovesauce
Necronomicondiment



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   Posted 7/27/2007 8:45 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Alan of The Word said...
And therein lies the fundamental problem with the basic Thelemic laws. They're too open to interpretation and often people end up getting stressed when they can't do all that they want to do and therefore begin to apply the Law more and more rigidly, subsequently moving further and further from the original intent of the Law.
Absolutely. It seems the legacy Crowley leaves for each magician is "enough rope". :-) Barb's comment above is representative of those (probably the majority) who wisely choose to set it aside lest they hang themselves.
 
One phrase in the Book of the Law resonates with me as regards my writing: "pure Will, unassuaged of purpose and delivered from lust of result, is in every way perfect."
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Firlefanz
Sage



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   Posted 7/20/2007 3:51 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's been great for learning, too.

Thank you, Daniel and Laura, for opening even more vistas for me. :-)


- Call me Firle.

Hannah Steenbock

Mystical Adventures
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Laura Stamps
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   Posted 7/20/2007 2:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Daniel said...
Great posts, guys!!!!

I think we may need to start part 2 of this thread soon; it is getting pretty long.

Some good thoughts are liable to get "lost" down this deep in any thread.

And the thread still hasn't even covered spellcasting or chaos magick techniques, proper.

You two really know your stuff!

Thanks!  :-)
 
I agree.  We are getting an amazing amount of views for this thread.  If there is anything of mine posted on this third page you would like to move to the new thread, that's fine with me.
 
Let me know when you start the new thread, and what you are calling it.  This has been big fun!!


Laura Stamps
"Magickal Urban Fantasy Novels (Collectible, small press, signed editions)"
Kittyfeather Press
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Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy



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   Posted 7/20/2007 1:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Great posts, guys!!!!

I think we may need to start part 2 of this thread soon; it is getting pretty long.

Some good thoughts are liable to get "lost" down this deep in any thread.

And the thread still hasn't even covered spellcasting or chaos magick techniques, proper.

You two really know your stuff!


"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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Rob Mancebo
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   Posted 7/20/2007 8:45 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Laura Stamps said...

So for those visitors to this thread I thought it might be fun to post a segment from my forthcoming novel THE WITCHES OF DIXIE: Book One of the Witchery Series, to be published by Trytium Publishing in the next few months.  In this scene, a Wiccan Witch (Nadine) is helping her artist friend (Mirabella) through a financial crisis by performing a "Banishing Poverty Spell" in her studio.  All the spells, rituals, and chants in my novels are real and come from my personal BOS (Book of Shadows).  So for anyone interested, this is how a very Eclectic Wiccan Witch does it.  smilewinkgrin

Thanks for sharing, Laura. 

> >

For those not familiar with some of the terms: 

> >

Cast a circle- A circle of protection that outside interference may not penetrate.   This is used throughout many magical disciplines and religions. 

> >

Widdershins- counterclockwise. 

> >

Lady and Lord- Wicca is an eclectic, modern creation that draws upon the pantheon and beliefs of many old and ancient mystic traditions.  Most practitioners identify the 'Lord and Lady' as the male & female manifestations of the ultimate divine but some, leaning more toward specific traditions, will identify them with ancient deities.  It is a very diverse religion, personal to the practitioner. 

> >


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Laura Stamps
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   Posted 7/20/2007 7:54 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

We've been talking a lot here about the basics of ritual, tools used in ritual, and the thinking/faith behind magick, spellcasting, and ritual.  I have suggested this thread to several members I know, and they have enjoyed it, but also said because they do not practice magick, they felt a little lost trying to follow all the info, which many times lists terms and practices they don't understand. 

So for those visitors to this thread I thought it might be fun to post a segment from my forthcoming novel THE WITCHES OF DIXIE: Book One of the Witchery Series, to be published by Trytium Publishing in the next few months.  In this scene, a Wiccan Witch (Nadine) is helping her artist friend (Mirabella) through a financial crisis by performing a "Banishing Poverty Spell" in her studio.  All the spells, rituals, and chants in my novels are real and come from my personal BOS (Book of Shadows).  So for anyone interested, this is how a very Eclectic Wiccan Witch does it.  smilewinkgrin

************

     Saturday morning, and Nadine knocks on the studio door.  She carries three small pots of basil in a cardboard box.  "According to Hindu mythology, Lakshmi inhabits basil, charging it with money attracting power," she says, "and as the plants grow, so will your success and prosperity." 

     She places the box in front of a sunny window and turns around, hands on her hips. 

     I know that look and wonder what she’s planning.   

     “I think we should cast a Banishing Poverty Spell today,” Nadine says.  “What do you think?” 

     I smile.  “Great idea.  Let’s do it!”

     She walks to the middle of the studio and moves my easel and a few stools out of the way, explaining Saturdays are best for performing banishing spells, especially if it is the time of a Waning Moon.  “In ten minutes we’ll enter the hour of Saturn, the Banishing Hour.”   

     She moves one of the stools to the middle of the room.  “This will be our altar,” she says.  “Stand next to it while I prepare the tools for the spell.” 

     She lifts a piece of parchment paper from her tote bag and writes the word POVERTY across it, placing the paper on the stool.  Then she moves a candle next to it.  “The hour of Saturn has arrived,” she says, glancing at her watch.  “Do the grounding meditation I taught you.”

     I close my eyes, visualizing the energy in my body flowing down through my feet into the ground, where the Earth cleanses and empowers it and then shoots it back up into my feet.  It rises through the top of my head and then back down again into the Earth, a waterfall of energy.  I repeat this visualization three times, and when I open my eyes I feel refreshed and ready for magick.  

     Nadine positions burning candles at the four compass points of the circle, symbolizing the Watchtowers of the four directions.  The candle on the altar stool remains unlit.  “Ready?”   

     I nod.   

     She lifts her wand with her right hand, walking slowly in a clockwise direction, sprinkling salt in a circle with her left hand around the altar, saying, “I cast this circle around the ground to protect us while our magick abounds.”  The salt circle complete, she raises her wand to each direction, calling for the Guardians of the East, South, West, and North to protect and assistance in the working of our spell.  Then she asks Lakshmi for her blessing.

     Nadine turns to me.  “We’re going to say this spell together as we walk around the altar, okay?”  

     She begins to walk in a widdershins direction around the stool, and I follow her.  Together we say, “ Poverty, I banish you in the name of the Lady and the Lord.  Poverty, I command you to leave this studio now and never come back!”   

     We circle the altar stool thirteen times, repeating the spell each time, Nadine’s wand points toward the paper, charging it with the cone of power we’ve raised.  Her wand shimmers in the sun, a beautiful creation handcrafted for her by a woodcarver friend, rose quartz crystals wired at each end, painted fairies dancing up and down the length of it.   

     Nadine stops and lifts the parchment.  She lights the candle on the altar.  Holding the paper over it, she says, ”As the cleansing flame of fire burns this paper to ash, so poverty leaves Mirabella’s life forever and at last.”   

     After she opens the circle, we walk to the studio sink and wash the ashes down the drain, visualizing poverty flowing from my life for good.   

     “Let’s celebrate our magick,” Nadine says, her eyes sparkling, and we head to the kitchen for a tasty snack.

 

 

     (c) Laura Stamps 


Laura Stamps
"Magickal Urban Fantasy Novels (Collectible, small press, signed editions)"
Kittyfeather Press
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Rob Mancebo
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   Posted 7/19/2007 1:48 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Daniel said...

I suggest a magickal guide and the copious reading of magickal tomes and the participation in some traditional method of ritual magick, say kabbalah or candle-magick, along with divination methods (most if not all of which can also be studied as magickal theory: astrology, Tarot, runes, etc are great examples of this). I think magickal knowledge is revealed, not learned, at least not in traditional ways, so if you have a teacher, you'd better be lucky and get a good one. I personally have my doubts, but that's just me...  LOL . . .

. . .Hence, my advice to summon a magickal guide first. And stick with it; it is your best-friend if you want to be a magician!

-  Good advice about copious reading.  I must also suggest being around spiritually active people.  Spirit is catching if you are open and it fires the mind and body.  Energy is passed through teaching but also through just being around high-caliber folks.  Not stogy, dogmatic people, but people on fire with the spirit or in high states of enlightenment.  It's very cool to have spiritual questions answered and 'flow with the spirit'.  I've experienced great power from Christians, Wiccans, Hindus, Yogis, and Kabbalahists.  Great to have folks help you along your path (you don't have to follow theirs to appreciate them.) 
 


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Laura Stamps
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   Posted 7/18/2007 5:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Daniel said...
And I still speak in tongues. Christians would say it is impossible, but there it is. Jesus has also appeared to me 3 times. Wow. That's an experience you can't forget. And he's not mad at me either for leaving the Christian church. In fact he really doesn't act very Christian to tell you the truth, more Pagan and magickal than anything else. So you add the spirits and the tongue-talking and the Empathic/psychic talents to this, and you have me. A verrry Eclectic Wiccan Witch

***

Beautiful!!!

Laura, I love the way you've integrated your magickal consciousness into your fiction and poetry! Yes, I've only read snippets, but even so, I can feel your voice.

Also present in your excellent postings here.

Thanks, Daniel, I'm so glad you've enjoyed my postings here, as well as my poems and the first chapters from my novels on my websites.  Hearing that makes my day, truly.  :-)
 
In fact, I thought about you this afternoon.  Trytium Publishing will now be publishing my "Witchery" series of novels (we're still working out the final details, but it's a done deal).  And the first novel will be called The Witches of Dixie: Book One of the Witchery Series.  It will include all 4 of the novels and novellas on my website.  So for the last two weeks I have been combining all those novels and novellas in one coherent form for this big new book, which will be published this fall.  This afternoon I have been editing a part of one of those books that features all kinds of rituals, including a really neat banishing ritual, among others, all taken from my personal BOS.  It made me smile and think of you, because these are rituals one Witch (Nadine) is teaching to her friend (Mirabella) who wants to become a Witch.  And Nadine has used many of the basic tools and ritual structures you have talked about in this thread. 
You and I are kindred magickal spirits for sure!   yeah  


Laura Stamps
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Kittyfeather Press
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Daniel
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   Posted 7/18/2007 5:17 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And I still speak in tongues. Christians would say it is impossible, but there it is. Jesus has also appeared to me 3 times. Wow. That's an experience you can't forget. And he's not mad at me either for leaving the Christian church. In fact he really doesn't act very Christian to tell you the truth, more Pagan and magickal than anything else. So you add the spirits and the tongue-talking and the Empathic/psychic talents to this, and you have me. A verrry Eclectic Wiccan Witch

***

Beautiful!!!

Laura, I love the way you've integrated your magickal consciousness into your fiction and poetry! Yes, I've only read snippets, but even so, I can feel your voice.

Also present in your excellent postings here.


"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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Daniel
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   Posted 7/18/2007 4:46 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
- Without the support of a group or a teacher, a beginner is liable to hear something go 'bump in the night' or face down some inner demon and run from anything magickal ever after. Very counter-productive.

***

Yes, I don't mean to downplay this aspect of magick, especially ritual magick -- which can, certainly, be rife with unsettling experiences and...revelations. After-all, as we have been saying: magick is an attempt to attain communion with a higher consciousness and as such it can prove unsettling to our everyday minds, to which most of us are deeply attached and protective of by necessity, as well as by social conditioning.

I think my answer is this: by the time an aspirant magician has taken the steps necessary to begin construction of ritual space and implements and to study (not yet perform) the elementary practices of summoning, spellcasting, divination, and binding (among others) they will have developed a degree of courage to help them to take the next needed steps.

That is why a certain degree of tradition is necessary. Merely following the classical methods of self-initiation and building and consecrating the sacred space and materials will help develop the aspirant's magickal courage and self-confidence. The traditional methods have evolved wisely in that they do tend to break in aspirants slowly....  If one "leaps" ahead they may find something unsettling, they may merely flop altogether and then believe, as you wisely mentioned, that stupid old magick just doesn't work.

Let's keep in mind two key points of my subjective personal beliefs which I've been trying to be careful to repeat again and again:

1) The "Call" to become a magician represents not only the ego-based will of the magician but the Divine Will in equal proportions. SO, if you want to be a magician, it is, in my opinion, because you are being summoned by a higher-consciousness which is using magick, among many other things, to help reveal to you the Divine and universal nature of consciousness. SO, really nothing to be afraid of there because we accept that it is a Divine Call.

2) "There is a magick behind the magick." No magician can perform a magickal operation which is not, at heart, a portion and part of Divine Will. So, if you are frightened repeatedly, enough to be scared away from magick altogether, that is OK. You may try again later or maybe something else will work better. There's nothing inherently better about magick as a mode of self-knowledge and mystical initiation over -- say -- hiking or mountain climbing. It's OK to come up a croppers as far as ritual magick goes, doesn't mean much in the long run I don't think.

For those who are courageous enough to see it through (just as for those courageous enough to hike deep woods or climb high mountains) some spectacular views certainly do await!!!!

And obviously, you make a great point about guides and teachers: one always needs help.

I suggest a magickal guide and the copious reading of magickal tomes and the participation in some traditional method of ritual magick, say kabbalah or candle-magick, along with divination methods (most if not all of which can also be studied as magickal theory: astrology, Tarot, runes, etc are great examples of this). I think magickal knowledge is revealed, not learned, at least not in traditional ways, so if you have a teacher, you'd better be lucky and get a good one. I personally have my doubts, but that's just me...  LOL

Lastly, I'm not saying that magick is a quick route to anything. There are immediate benefits and they are magnificent and beautiful and long-lived. However, the study and practice of magick is pursued, like any art (or science), over the course of a lifetime and one experience have many trials and tribulations along the way.

Hence, my advice to summon a magickal guide first. And stick with it; it is your best-friend if you want to be a magician!

 

 

 

 

 

 


"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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Daniel
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   Posted 7/18/2007 4:26 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Before I add anything to this section though, I will point out that there are groups out there who completely believe that 'sacred space' or 'sacred places' are physical locations and are not affected by anything we might do here within the world. They seek out such places rather than try to create them.
So then, these techniques are not acknowledged universially.

***

Interesting point. And quite accurate!

Personally, I reject the idea that any one place or space is more inherently scared than another. I do believe in temporarily investing (or liberating) spaces with sacred magick but I don't believe that there is anything exclusionary about where one does it or how one does it.

In short: all places may be thought of as being sacred, or at the very least capable of yielding a latent magickal power, just as there is e=mc2 worth of energy latent in all physical matter....

OTOH, I do think some specific places resonate psychically, I certainly could not dispute that.

So, a great point you've made on this idea: I will now proceed to ponder the issue.....   lol Beginning with a meditaiton on the close-nature of the words "sacred" and "scared" which I have been persistently "typo-ing" throughout this post!


"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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Daniel
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   Posted 7/18/2007 4:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
'I don't think the human soul is so fragile that merely dipping into it will cause any kind of damage to the soul.'

- I agree. The danger is not any demons without, but the demons within(ego/fear) and yet these can be a real detriment if not correctly handled.

- Without the support of a group or a teacher, a beginner is liable to hear something go 'bump in the night' or face down some inner demon and run from anything magickal ever after. Very counter-productive.

***

Excellent points!

Although I won't personally endorse the idea of teachers for magick, I don't disapprove of them, either! Whatever works. Dogma is a dangerous commodity, however; that's one of the ironies of modern chaos magick: so many parcticioners "laying down the law" of magick. Ugh. When conversations or practices of mysticism begin to partake of the same ole hierarchical will to power that often sours our everyday life, I run in the opposite direction. LOL

I don't trust "conservation" of power or the revelation of "truth" in occultism or magick as it relates to individual distinction or acuity.

My insistence on this rejection of hierarchies and "titles" pertaining to magick is certainly a personal motivation brought on by my own desires and ambitions. But my feelings about this are based in practice, that is: a pesistent "vibe" is associated with magickal practices in my mind, one which suggests a universal equality of soul, or rather, a strata of soul-experience wherein differences are not acknowledged based around the idea of "better or worse" but of respective completion, like a jigsaw puzzle where *all* the pieces are different but equally functional and intregal to the overall picture.


"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy



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   Posted 7/18/2007 4:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Coincidence? Or maybe all various religions are a human attempt to describe a source that is greater than our ability to comprehend.

All are correct, revealing what they see, all are wrong because they can never comprehend the whole of the universal spirit.


***

ABsolutely!


"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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Daniel
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   Posted 7/18/2007 4:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Honestly, this is the best discussion of magic I've seen in 20 years of being online.


***

Cool! I am so happy that there are enough people interested in the thread to keep it rolling!


"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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Rob Mancebo
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   Posted 7/17/2007 9:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Laura Stamps said...
  So you add the spirits and the tongue-talking and the Empathic/psychic talents to this, and you have me.  A verrry Eclectic Wiccan Witch.   smilewinkgrin   

-  Here's a great quotation, and great advice from about 3,000+ years ago:
 
'Believe nothing. No matter where you read it, or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense.'
- Buddha
 
-  We need to choose our own paths in life and let others do the same.  We all have different needs and expectations.  I try to leave others to their 'otherness' and just enjoy the ride.  :-)


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