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| SFReader Forums > SFReader > Ask The Expert > Chaos Magick | Forum Quick Jump
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|  Daniel Carl Jung's Waterboy

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 4515 | Posted 7/6/2007 3:22 AM (GMT -5) |   | | Welcome to the official thread for discussion of all things related to magick and the occult!
After careful consideration, I decided to post this thread in the "Ask the Expert" column because a number of people had queried me on my interest in and practice of Chaos Magick. I'm not sure anyone is an "expert" in Chaos Magick! but I have had a lot of experience with it and have done quite a bit of reading on magickal and occult topics.
Feel free to post your questions, thoughts, spells, magickal treatises, and links to occult related topics. What we make of this thread is up to us. For my own part, barring the answering of your questions and my own digressions, I will post initially on the underlying principles of magick, its theories, and then specifically Chaos Magick principles and theories, proper.
As usual, there are some caveats, and here they are:
1) Please don't post anti-magickal diatribes in this thread. Start a thread elsewhere to condemn or attempt to refute the occult. Here it is assumed that occult and magickal operations have validity.
2) Observe the Law of Occult Silence or break it at your peril. This means: try not to discourse on specific methods (ie the spell you just cast today) or specific results. If you are an initiated magician or witch or even a non-initiated novice you probably already know this all too well.
3) Please do not post your fiction or lengthy references to your own literary works here.
That's it.
I'll start off a bit later with a post on the generic underlying principles of magick. Meanwhile if anyone has any questions or comments, feel free to let 'em loose.
"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."
Daniel | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Daniel Carl Jung's Waterboy

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 4515 | Posted 7/7/2007 12:17 AM (GMT -5) |   | | A Basic Theory of Magick
All magickal operations can be viewed as forms of mental and imaginative concentration. They are the attempt to "tune in" to what many psychologists refer to as the "unconscious" capacities for creativity and knowledge that are latent in our imaginations and also to direct these capacities toward specific, desired results.
Most people have a past-time or hobby (not to mention job!) for which they keep certain tools, and they practice with the tools to learn certain forms of concentration and mental and physical applications. Let's take golf or cooking as examples: these practices are actually very similar to magick even if it would not appear so on the surface.
Just before a golfer makes their swing they run through a complex series of motions and mental steps to prepare to hit the shot they are envisioning in their mind. This is a form of concentration involving a wilfull and ritualized (practiced) connection betwen the imagination (envisioning the shot) and the material world (making the shot by physical processes).
Same with baking a cake: one imagines the desired result, assembles the needed tools to focus concentration, and by combining mental knowledge and imagination with physical components, the desired result (a cake!) is brought into actual being.
Magick operates on the same principle. One develops or learns forms of ritual which promote specific forms of concentration to create specific results in the material (and imaginative) world (s).
Some things to keep in mind:
1) Magick, at least in my opinion, does not involve "demons" or "devils" or "angels" or "hobgoblins" or anything of the kind. Such language is often employed metaphorically by occultists and magicians, but as mentioned above, modern magickal practice is generally conceded to exist as a form of concentration, and an attempt to attain a higher form of consciousness and direct it to a specific result, rather than a consorting with "spirits" per se.
2) Magick is spelled "magick" to distinguish it from stage-magic and carnival magic which are tricks rather than attempts to commune with a deeper consciousness. This adaptation is generally credited to the magician Aleister Crowley.
3) Magick can be discussed in psychological terms or in "folk" language, or in occult terms, or in scientific terms, yes -- scientific. I prefer to mix it all up, for which I greatly apologize in advance.
4) Magick acknowledges the existence of cosmic-balance. (Many Chaos Magicians do not, in fact, observe the Magickal Laws of Balance. Chaos Magick is an open-ended pursuit and they are entitled to their beliefs. Personally, I think the Wiccan "Law of Three" is very good to lean on in all magickal operations, especially spell-casting.)
I think that's all the theory we presently need to keep in mind before we begin to talk about practices of magick.
"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."
Daniel | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Daniel Carl Jung's Waterboy

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 4515 | Posted 7/7/2007 12:59 AM (GMT -5) |   | |
Some typical questions about magick:
1) Is there such a thing as "Black Magick?"
Yes. And no. In my opinion all magick may be considered "white" in that it springs from a Divine source. However, it may all be considered "black" because it is concerned with the invocation of Divine power to serve personal desires. Arthur Edward Waite remarked that "There is a magick behind the magick" and what he meant was the Divine Will always triumphs over the will of any magician, so a successful spell, white or black, represents the harmony of individual and Divine wills. Or you could say conscious and unconscious thought.
Certainly, there are magicians who think of themselves as black and those who think of themselves as white. As we shall see, color-symbolism plays a huge role in magickal operations, but I find it useful to divest symbolic colors from any moral connotation. You may feel differently. Magick has often been referred to as the "Dark Arts" and as Jung pointed out this has a lot to do not with its moral capacities but with the manner by which occult information is most often transmitted and occult knowledge and results gained: out of the light of normal, everyday life.
2) Do you need special robes and ritual gear to do magick?
No. Magick can be performed without any implements whatsoever. The common vision of a magician in robes standing in a pentagram with a pointy hat has been and may be still true for some Ceremonial magicians. But, no, it is not necessary to have this stuff to do magick.
3) What is the "Necronomicon?
It is a fictional book in the writings of H.P. Lovecraft, one which is often mistaken for an actual occult treatise and spellbook. Yes, Lovecraft and the "Necronomicon" play a role in certain quarters of the Chaos-magick crowd, but not in my particular corner of the world.
4) What is the Law of Occult Silence and aren't you/we breaking it by having this discussion?
The Law of Occult Silence is not something that is commonly admonished by occultists to other practicioners, but it should be. It pertains to the discussion of specific rituals and specific results only. It does not pertain to theory or to general discussion of practice or implements.
In other words it's ok to share a spell you created or have had good luck with, but it is potentially hazardous to say: "Hey gang, I am starting a spell now and I'll be back later to let everyone know if it worked." Even worse is to start "bragging" about results you have had; in some extreme cases, when the ego gets too out of control and the magician no longer recognizes any limit to their vanity or power, it can be of lethal consequence. Mostly though it just causes your spells and other operations to flop.
Why is it bad to break the Law of Occult Silence in regard to specific rituals and specific results? Simply put: it's a form of "breaking your concentration:" as if a golfer stopped in the middle of their swing to say "Look at this!" and then went on and hit the ball anyway!
The more your operations and spells are brought into the light of ordinary life, simply put, the more they lose their magickal capacities and that includes spells that have already been cast, even if they seem to be working. Try not to become egotistical or too-talkative about your specific practices and results and you will experience far less "backlash" or outright failure from your magickal operations. A rule of thumb: it is good to reveal and share knowledge; it is perilous to claim it with exclusivity as your own.
5) Is there such a thing as "sex-magick?"
Yes, we'll talk about that a little later! (But it's a lot duller than you may think!)
6) Is magick evil?
Absolutely not. You are engaged in ritual and magick whether you are conscious of it or not on a daily basis, so how can it be evil? Any application of individual will, be that writing a great novel or just baiting a fish hook, consists in some ways of ritualized concentration and that is all we are talking about here.
"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."
Daniel | | Back to Top | | |
 |  nathan Sage

       Date Joined Mar 2006 Total Posts : 2178 | Posted 7/7/2007 6:42 AM (GMT -5) |   | "Do What Thou Will, Shall Be The Whole Of The Law."
However I did acctually get thrown for a bit by the Necronomican for a couple of days when I discovered there was a published version. I was like, WTF?! I hope Bruce Campbell doesn't get a hold of it! until I realized it was all post-Lovecraft crap.
Still I was a little nervous.
I don't think sex magic will catch on much in America given the avoidence of male orgasm, LOL, ;-P VIEW IMAGE "Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Daniel Carl Jung's Waterboy

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 4515 | Posted 7/7/2007 11:32 AM (GMT -5) |   | | "Do What Thou Will, Shall Be The Whole Of The Law."
***
Don't forget the second part: "Love is the Law; Love under Will."
Just in case someone is unfamiliar with these very famous axioms: they are both from "The Book of Law," which was revealed to Aleister Crowley under the auspices of his HGA. I linked to an online version of TBoL, but before you read this book or start looking into it, there is an admonition related to it (which Crowley, of course, placed at the END of the book!):
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The study of this Book is forbidden. It is wise to destroy this copy after the first reading.
Whosoever disregards this does so at his own risk and peril. These are most dire.
Those who discuss the contents of this Book are to be shunned by all, as centres of pestilence.
All questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings, each for himself.
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt.
Love is the law, love under will.
The priest of the princes,
Ankh-f-n-khonsu
The first axiom: "Do What Thou Wilt Shall be the Whole of the Law" is actually found pre-Crowley in the works of Rabaleis, although the second part of the axiom seems unique to the Book of Law.
Like a koan, each of these "statements" can be looked at and thought about without limit. I'll give you just a hint of what I mean: ""Do What Thou Wilt Shall be the Whole of the Law" can be thought of, not as a call to anarchy, but of a call to follow one's True Will under Divine Law, Divine Law being, in effect, the manifestation of one's True Will (ie unconscious knowledge) whereas much of what people do is against their True Will and is predicated on ego-knowledge and the influence of others' will. Like taking a job your parents (or spouse) wanted you to have but you hate, or marrying someone you don't love or just assuming a part in any relationship or action that does not come from your "heart." The second part: "Love is the Law; Love under Will" is in some ways even more crucial because "love" can mean not only love in the "traditional" sense, but also desire and ambition, ie "what you love." But more importantly, the phrase relates to Kabbalistic knowledge regarding Divine Judgement, which emerges from absolute Love, ergo it is flawless and eternal and pure: in effect The Law of Love.
"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."
Daniel | | Back to Top | | |
    |  Daniel Carl Jung's Waterboy

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 4515 | Posted 7/7/2007 3:22 PM (GMT -5) |   | |
Principles of Chaos Magick
The following characteristics distinguish Chaos Magick from other major branches of modern magickal practice such as Wicca, Ceremonial Magick, Thelema, or Witchcraft.
1) Chaos Magick is open-ended. There are no rules; merely underlying theories and assumptions.
2) Chaos Magick is a primarily pragmatic interpretation of magick, rather than an esoteric interpretation of magick. It's more important to produce results and act toward producing them than to perform ritual or ritual magick for its own sake or because of arbitrary refrences to Holy Days, seasons, or custom.
3) Chaos Magick is highly-compatible with modern scientific theories such as quantum physics and makes free use of association and ritualization of these concepts and theories. However, it is not necessary for any practicioner to be familar with or make use of science or quantum theories.
4) Chaos Magick wants to be modern, that is: it is acceptable (even encouraged) within its framework to make reference to contemporary culture, art, literature, and even movies and TV within the framework of ritual or spellcasting or divination. It is of course not necessary to do so.
5) Chaos Magick is highly usable by the individual and requires no coven or church or group to realize its potentials. It is also perfectly at home within the context of a coven, church, or group, but it is not mandatory that a Chaote have any reference point for their workings other than their own knowledge and the knowledge they attain through their magickal studies and, most importantly, through their magickal practices.
6) Chaos Magick is considered to have descended from the magician Austin Osman Spare. Without a doubt, Spare remains the best source for knowledge of Chaos Magick in its "classical" form and his writings are both extensive and readily available. That said, it is not necessary for any Chaote to read Spare's works or, in fact, have any interest in Spare whatsoever.
7) Chaos Magick refutes the idea of occult leaders, prophets, or any form of hierarchical interpretation of the magickal consciousness. There are no messiahs in Chaos Magick.
"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."
Daniel | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Alan of The Word Stablehand
        Date Joined Aug 2006 Total Posts : 37 | Posted 7/11/2007 2:38 AM (GMT -5) |   | Just a quick reference to the Thelemic axioms. "Do what thou will..." works in both directions. One is supposed to consider that others will do as they will too. In which case, if everyone did exactly as they liked, anarchy would rule and no one, bar a very powerful few, would actually be able to do what they want.
Therefore, a more Taoist, reciprocal interpretation is required. "Do what thou will as long as it doesn't prevent others from doing as they will" might be a more accurate axiom, but far less poetic!
"Love under will..." also applies when enacting "Do as thou will..." - love of others, love of others rights to happiness and freedom, etc. The two things are not mutually exclusive.
And therein lies the fundamental problem with the basic Thelemic laws. They're too open to interpretation and often people end up getting stressed when they can't do all that they want to do and therefore begin to apply the Law more and more rigidly, subsequently moving further and further from the original intent of the Law.
"Do unto others..." is a far more practical and less corruptible law to live by, but you can live by Thelemic principals and still live by "Do unto others..." as well. ;) Read The Word | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Daniel Carl Jung's Waterboy

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 4515 | Posted 7/11/2007 11:49 AM (GMT -5) |   | | Just a quick reference to the Thelemic axioms. "Do what thou will..." works in both directions. One is supposed to consider that others will do as they will too. In which case, if everyone did exactly as they liked, anarchy would rule and no one, bar a very powerful few, would actually be able to do what they want.
*** Good post. Excellent points!
Additionally, I think the Thelemic axiom implies that if everyone were enacting their True Will (ie Divine Will) there would be no moral or ethical conflicts even in an anarchistic paradigm. True Will is a major concept in Thelemic philosophy and it is closely wed to the idea of the magician calling upon their Holy Guardian Angel (HGA) in order to secure a "guide" to the magician's True Will. The method Crowley used to call down his HGA is widely known to have been based on the kabbalistic magick of Abramelin-the-Mage. These were the rituals he conducted at the famous Boleskine House, the house (or "toolshed")  where Jimmy Page later built "Stairway to Heaven" and many other classic Led-Zep tunes and records (at least the guitar overdubs).
The link to the Abramelinic grimoire is there for informative purposes only. I am certainly not encouraging anyone, especially those who are new to magick, to pursue Abramelinic magick!!! Calling the HGA is a serious mode of magickal initiation which carries the very strong possibility of life-shattering, faith-shaking events. The whole ritual is of utmost consequence and seriousness and should not be taken lightly.
For the record, I don't maintain a lot of interest in Thelema or Crowley, personally, but I would personally endorse Abramelinic magick and kabbalistic magick. This is a testament to just how much of a "pastiche" of other magickal systems Thelema actually is at heart.
In Chaos Magick there is no provision against borrowing and cross-pollinating.
As Alan mentioned, though, Thelema (which is a religion which relies heavily on ceremonial magick) is a strangely formal and dogmatic religion when you get right down to it. I am, in general, not disposed toward Ceremonial or "High" magick.
I'd be greatly interested to hear what others have to say on the subject, but I am not well versed enough to say much more than "It's not my cuppa."
"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."
Daniel | | Back to Top | | |
  |  Firlefanz Sage

       Date Joined Mar 2007 Total Posts : 1246 | Posted 7/11/2007 3:08 PM (GMT -5) |   | | | |
 |  Daniel Carl Jung's Waterboy

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 4515 | Posted 7/11/2007 3:14 PM (GMT -5) |   | |
(An Aside on ReverseSpeech)
I want to add a few thoughts about the Jimmy Page/Led Zep "Toolshed" connection, here. It has long been posited that the "backwards" messages (most notoriously found on rock songs) in pop culture are the result of wilfull "backmasking."
This is absurd in my opinion. However, the recent discovery of the "reverse speech" phenomenon by Oates furnishes a highly-credible counter-theory to the existence of the huge number of backward messages in recorded discourse and entertainment.
In light of the reverse speech connection, I would posit that Jimmy Page, in fact, did purposely and consciously select a "take" of "Stairway to Heaven" that contained spontaneous instances of reverse-speech, most pertinently the "backwards" intonation at the very beginning of the backward-played "Stairway." However, the backwards speech, including references to Boleskine House's oratory as a "toolshed," were not "backmasked' onto the track consciously. For many years I've wondered whether Page even consciously knew the reverse-speech instances were on the official track of "Stairway" (before someone angrily accused of him of worshipping Satan!) but then I realized he probably did, in fact, due to Crowley's urging of magicians to listen to phonograph records backwards. And well, he, Page, had a hyper-modern studio in Boleskine House to do precisely this, with recorded Led Zep tracks before they were put on the final record!!!!
As such, the track "Stairway to Heaven" can be considered a magickal operation: reverse-speech owes it's discovery and serious, scientific contemplation to the existence of alleged "backmasking" on popular records. In effect, the "controversy" of Stairway to Heaven led to the discovery of reverse-speech, which if seriously regarded, certainly qualifies as a communion with a "Higher Consciousness" one which in effect can expose humanity's hypocricies and lies to the light of day. This could be world-changing knowledge which moves us all closer to illumination and truth. But it is knowledge and self-revelation which has previously been part of the "dark" arts. Easy to follow the progression if you posit at some point reverse speech being brought to the same light of conscious understanding as say, race or gender relations, are now.
Thus, Page is truly channeling the "Lucifer" archetype in some ways bringing Light and knowledge (threatening and destructive to the ego) which I think explains why so many people feel threatened by the idea of reverse-speech and/or the backwards messages which are alleged to be found in certain pop-songs.
"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."
Daniel | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Laura Stamps Neophyte

       Date Joined Jun 2007 Total Posts : 134 | Posted 7/11/2007 3:27 PM (GMT -5) |   |
Wiccans use a form of that in what we call The Wiccan Rede..."Do what you will, if it hurts no one." I like that because it just reminds you there are metaphysical laws at work if you break them.
Our other "rule" is the Rule of Three (also metaphysical) "Whatever you do, say, or think will come back to you three-fold."
We always say (and it is true) all Wiccans are Witches but not all Witches are Wiccans. As you can imagine I have been a member of many Pagan/Witch forums and Yahoo groups. Wiccans are generally called White Witches because they follow the above rules and make sure their magick hurts no one. And that is easier to do than you might think. It just takes a lot of self-control and a good knowledge of the natural and metaphysical laws. Yes, black magick and Black Witches do exist. I have had the misfortune to meet some in Pagan/Witch forums. And that's all I'm going to say about black magick.
I do weave real-life spells, chants, and rituals throughout my novels, and some of my novels feature these in every chapter. I am of the belief that it is good to spread the magick. I am also psychic and a Level 6 natural-born Empath. All of this informs my magick and makes it unique. And that is true of most solitaries, I think. Even solitary Wiccans. We take from many different religious and spiritual traditions and add what works to our Pagan practice. It's one of the many things I love about Witchcraft. There is such freedom to sculpt it into what works perfectly for you.
For example, because I am psychic and can see into the spirtual realms, the faeries and Rune spirits that walk with me every day are a part of my daily rituals and magick. Also my Patron Goddess and the spirits that live in my house, many who are in-between lives right now. They are all my friends and work with me in my magick. Past lives also inform your magick. I am an old spirit and have been around for more than 3000 years. My first past life experience memory was as a Priestess in the temples of Bast in ancient Egypt. In my last lifetime I died in December 1942 in a Nazi concentration camp in Germany. And there are many many past lives in-between those. All of this adds to my magick and its focus and success.
I know this thread is about the scientific practice of using magickal laws without adding the spiritual to it, but I thought I would just throw in my Wiccan two cents, because everything about our Wiccan magickal lives is deeply spiritual. I remember when I joined another SF&F forum one member said I was like a character that walked out of a fantasy novel because I am a real Witch. How funny and how true! Imagine how weird it is for me to read dark urban fantasy novels and to wonder if the people who read them realize some of these things do exist...psi-vamps, blood vamps, Empaths, etc. Not exactly as they are portrayed in novels, but they do exist. Just like the realm of magick exists. Wild, isn't it?! Laura Stamps
"Magickal Urban Fantasy Novels (Collectible, small press, signed editions)"
Kittyfeather Press
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    |  Daniel Carl Jung's Waterboy

       Date Joined Aug 2003 Total Posts : 4515 | Posted 7/11/2007 3:43 PM (GMT -5) |   | I do weave real-life spells, chants, and rituals throughout my novels, and some of my novels feature these in every chapter. I am of the belief that it is good to spread the magick. I am also psychic and a Level 6 natural-born Empath. All of this informs my magick and makes it unique. And that is true of most solitaries, I think. Even solitary Wiccans. We take from many different religious and spiritual traditions and add what works to our Pagan practice. It's one of the many things I love about Witchcraft. There is such freedom to sculpt it into what works perfectly for you.
***
Nicely put! The Wiccan path is wide and very happily pursued by many...
I borrow from Wiccan practices and traditions quite often, including the rule of three as I mentioned upstream-- so many Chaotes do not recognize the Laws of Magickal Balance that it is important for me to always distinguish myself in this regard.
"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."
Daniel | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Laura Stamps Neophyte

       Date Joined Jun 2007 Total Posts : 134 | Posted 7/11/2007 3:59 PM (GMT -5) |   |
Daniel said... I just want to clarify: I'm not discouraging the "spiritual" far from it! After-all I did posit as a key point before I started talking about magick that all magick originates in the Divine will :wink: I was just trying to show that magick, too, has a rational and logical basis, that it's not all candles and cobwebs, although those are good fun, too!
I know. It was just my scattered way of trying to help.
People who do not actually practice magick might not be aware that there are two kinds of magickal applications: the spiritual and the nonspiritual. So I was just trying to show that. You have done an excellent job with the one, and I was trying to add a little awareness of the other.
For example, I know generational Witches from Europe and the US who are anti-spiritual. They don't believe in any form of divine power. Yup, but they cast very effective spells. Instead of using spiritual power like a Wiccan would, they use a scientific application of metaphysical laws handed down to them from their families. It works the same.
But like I said, I prefer to work magick within rules that keep it for the good, since magick is power like Daniel mentioned, and the human ego loves power. If you let that power carry your ego away you will find yourself in the realm of black magick. And that's bad karma for sure! Laura Stamps
"Magickal Urban Fantasy Novels (Collectible, small press, signed editions)"
Kittyfeather Press
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