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crystalwizard
Forum Moderator

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5194

Posted 8/19/2007 1:43 PM (GMT -5)

strips of bacon sizzling in a cast-iron frying pan?

Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!

Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard

All my books in print:
http://sojourn.omnitech.net

ScrewMoonshine
Adept

Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 905

Posted 8/19/2007 12:50 PM (GMT -5)

Medieval sword cutting through flesh?

Rods being surgically inserted in a bad back in order to support the spine?

A tongue licking the batter off an egg beater?

Barefoot runner stepping onto a metal ramp under a mid-summer sun?

Robert Orme

Out now:
"On the Tree Top" in Ultraverse vol.3 #5 (www.ultraverse.us)
"The Scab, the Man, and the I.V." in Mount Zion Speculative Fiction Review #3 (www.mountzionpress.com)

Coming soon:
"Time in a Capsule" in Unparalleled Journeys II (www.journeybookspublishing.com/)
"Replacing Someone" in Aoife's Kiss #26, September 2008 (http://samsdotpublishing.com/aoife/main.htm)
"More Than One Way to Protect" in Lords of Justice (www.carnifexpress.net/blogs/)

von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)

Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 3120

Posted 8/16/2007 10:08 PM (GMT -5)

a hamburger in the pan?

your palm slapping the butt/hilt of a Colt/Bowie?

brain matter abutts plate?

~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Acquisitions Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
Associate Editor Flashing Swords
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).
~~~~~~~~~~
Critical Eye of the Dragon Avatar courtesy of crystalwizard

Jordan Lapp
Ebony & Ivory

Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2953

Posted 8/16/2007 6:45 PM (GMT -5)

Presumably putting your foot on the gas pedal of your car. Am I right?

Jordan Lapp

Managing Editor

Every Day Fiction

David Boultbee
Neophyte

Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 107

Posted 8/16/2007 4:22 PM (GMT -5)

erazmus said...
Oh hell yeah, that's where the meat meets the metal in the writer/editor relationship.

Meat meets the metal!?! LOL

I've never heard this expression before. It certainly conjures an interesting visual though. What is it referring to?

David Boultbee

http://www.davidboultbee.com

http://www.thegenderdivide.com

erazmus
Master

Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 4557

Posted 8/16/2007 4:17 PM (GMT -5)

Oh hell yeah, that's where the meat meets the metal in the writer/editor relationship. Asking for, and knowing how to get, just enough changes to make the final product perfect. It isn't easy and usually its not all that fun. The results though . . .
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:

www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
"Stains" in Tales of the Talisman 3-1 www.zianet.com/hadrosaur/index.html
"Slushpiles" in Between the Kisses
www.samsdotpublishing.com/betweenkisses/TurnerSlushPileS.htm

David Boultbee
Neophyte

Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 107

Posted 8/16/2007 1:46 PM (GMT -5)

There are a lot of responses to this post but what about the actually process of editing?

I'm in the process of having my novel edited and so far I am quite happy with the editor. Her comments are relevant and insightful and I think the novel will be better because of them. I am in Canada and she lives in Japn so we are corresponding via email. The ms is a Word file and her comments / edits show up using the track changes function in Word. Ditto for my changes and comments. It's a great way to edit a novel, at least for me. Comments are readable and easy to spot as you page through the document.

What are other peoples experiences in this regard? Do you feel your editor is 'adding value' (buzz word bingo anyone?), is the process of editing making the book better?

My answer is a definite yes.

David Boultbee

http://www.davidboultbee.com

http://www.thegenderdivide.com

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/6/2007 3:27 PM (GMT -5)

Even at that age, the Van Gelder's drool over their fiction ;)

***

Ah, now I get it!

That's cute.

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Jordan Lapp
Ebony & Ivory

Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2953

Posted 7/6/2007 3:22 PM (GMT -5)

Even at that age, the Van Gelder's drool over their fiction ;)

Jordan Lapp

Without Really Trying blog

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/6/2007 3:18 PM (GMT -5)

I stand corrected. Sorry.

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Jordan Lapp
Ebony & Ivory

Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2953

Posted 7/6/2007 3:15 PM (GMT -5)

The clip was of Van Gelder's infant son slobbering over the slush, if I recall correctly. I think Miss Snark posted it.

Jordan Lapp

Without Really Trying blog

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/6/2007 3:13 PM (GMT -5)

Even if your dog chose a few for rejections by marking them, credit the pisser in the front matter or on the intro page

***

That's funny!! I think F&SF did have aclip on YouTube of a dog eating slush. or is that a slush-eating dog? Anyway I could be wrong I only heard about the clip through the grapevie I didn't waste my time trying to watch it.

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Hermit
Diavhrati Luminary

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1785

Posted 7/6/2007 3:08 PM (GMT -5)

Daniel said...

Slush parties are when a host of people not officially listed as editors or associates of a pub read through a pub's slush.

For the sake of credit-where-credit's-due, they should be listed as guest editors or interns or otherwise noted in the publication credits. Duely noted as to whether in the guidelines or not. Even as consultants. But definitely listed. Everyone involved in reviewing submissions. Even if your dog chose a few for rejections by marking them, credit the pisser in the front matter or on the intro page. Anything less is unconscionable (listing them as anonymous is okay if they're really adamant about it, but try for names).

Exile of my own dull vice. . .

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/6/2007 2:48 PM (GMT -5)

Most of the time this works better for writers than it does for me, as it's almost always a reversal of a rejection to a solicitation for edits.

***

I think that is a great approach. Man, you should see how some editors geefully and publically describe their methods. "If the font is not to my liking, WHACK. If there is a word on the first page I have to look up in a dictionary, WHACK. If the sky is cloudy and I wanted sun today. WHACK."

It's really awfully pretentious and it is "supported" by some extent by all the writers who then go "Whoops, do I have the right font, enough simple words, and the right weather?" Rather than them saying: piss off you self-indulgent fool.

Of course this seems to hold true more for "top tier" markets (established by their pay-rates in most cases) than for the small press. There, writers are quick to demand respect and fair treatment. I always wanted to start off a pub at 1/2 cent a word give disgruntled writers a chance to bash it and criticize the editorial method and then suddenly raise the pay-rates to 8 cents a word, just to feel the "shock and awe" of them realizing they'd slammed a market that suddenly went "pro."

LOL

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/6/2007 2:00 PM (GMT -5)

I do slush binges

***
Slush binge, OK, not ideal, but often necessary.

Slush parties are when a host of people not officially listed as editors or associates of a pub read through a pub's slush.

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Hermit
Diavhrati Luminary

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1785

Posted 7/6/2007 1:58 PM (GMT -5)

I do slush binges. Have to. Go through 60-200 subs any given weekend. No time during the week, as I'm usually sending out the notes then. One thing about this: I mark my impulse at the time, but I wait until I'm typing the note to finalize my decision. Gives me the chance to reconsider. Most of the time this works better for writers than it does for me, as it's almost always a reversal of a rejection to a solicitation for edits.

I really want to answer subs as they come in (72 hours), but I would have to either have an all-nighter slush party or arbitrarily pick up one day and spend void days catching up.

And for the record - I get about 1% slush. WOOHOO! Sort of. It means that about 40% of my rejections are peices I really consider publishable. Which brings it back to the whole problem of personal rejections: how to say "sorry, but your luck's in the shitter - try submitting at a luckier time . . ."? As an alternative, I sometimes send notes saying something like "can't use it right now, but I would like to keep it for consideration; please feel free to submit elsewhere and remember to be polite enough to tell me when another sensible editor picks it up."

But I think I'd hang myself if I got such a notice. Okay, likely not, but I'd be nauseated for a couple days. And then send the limit in submissions to the same editor with a more personalized cover stating ever so politely that he approved the quality of my work and I hope this work suits his publication better.

Exile of my own dull vice. . .

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/6/2007 1:20 PM (GMT -5)

I'm not offended, just crocodile tears! LOL

Pardon my buttinskiness!

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Jordan Lapp
Ebony & Ivory

Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2953

Posted 7/6/2007 1:14 PM (GMT -5)

Why the tears? I didn't mean to offend...

Jordan Lapp

Without Really Trying blog

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/6/2007 1:10 PM (GMT -5)

I think there is something to be said by "targetting" markets, like Analog or Asimov's. Ideas are a dime a dozen. I can always come up with SOMETHING that would fit a market.

***
Ah, so....

Good luck to you, sir!

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Jordan Lapp
Ebony & Ivory

Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2953

Posted 7/6/2007 12:56 PM (GMT -5)

I've been having a lot of success recently by targetting anthologies. I never would have written two pirate stories on my own, but I did, and got into two of the three pirate anthos out this summer.

I think there is something to be said by "targetting" markets, like Analog or Asimov's. Ideas are a dime a dozen. I can always come up with SOMETHING that would fit a market.

Jordan Lapp

Without Really Trying blog

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/6/2007 12:46 PM (GMT -5)

Should I be writing all hard sci-fi so I can do this?

***

Ah, self-censorship based on market conditions, my favorite pet peeve of late!!!

Jordan, write what your imagination dictates! The world has an uncanny way with seeing to it that good work is recognized *despite* the ever-crumbling marketplaces!

If you start trying to control your imagination you will probably do so well that you completely scare inspiration away!

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/6/2007 12:02 PM (GMT -5)

Slush Parties.
Not always the evil they sound like

***

If pubs resort to slushparties they should say so in their editorial guidelines.

It strikes me as very odd when writers defend this practice, I mean when you contrast it with writers complaining about not getting a personal rejections and being treated unfairly.

The only sense I can make of it is there must be a "major" market somewhere that runs slush-parties and no-one wants to bad-mouth them for fear of being blacklisted! lol

Same for the FSF "Slush God" thing. I don't think this would sit too well with writers if a small press editor did that. "Hi, I am the Slush God, buy my merchandise." And when you factor in the infinitismal number of new writers that break into FSF, this part of the editorial attitude (among other things) toward submitting writers strikes me as condescending, exploitative, and rude.

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Jordan Lapp
Ebony & Ivory

Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2953

Posted 7/6/2007 11:56 AM (GMT -5)

tchernabyelo said...

I know many magazines get swamped with subs and find it hard to keep up (and in particular have trouble because the moment they reject author X's first story, another one will be on the way, no matter how terrible the first story was and teh second story is certain to be), but if you can't handle that prospect, well, you shouldn't be an editor.

I don't get how authors can do this. I have ONE story that would be appropriate for Analog. If they reject it, I won't be sending another one, because I haven't written another hard sci-fi piece that would fit.

My writing strategy is to write broadly--a high fantasy piece here, a hard sci-fi piece there, etc, so I can have the maximum number of markets covered. Is this the wrong strategy? Should I be writing all hard sci-fi so I can do this?

Jordan Lapp

Without Really Trying blog

tchernabyelo
Acolyte

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 474

Posted 7/6/2007 11:31 AM (GMT -5)

If you're confident about your writing, you have nothing to fear from a "slush party". Although I must admit I like to know who's going to be reading my story - I still can't deny that that much-derided "someone will steal my story!" fear occasionally surfaces in my backbrain. I feel comfortable knowing that magazines have named slush-wranglers (I read the blogs of several that I know of), and to pass a story out to complete and utter anonymity doesn't entirely sit well with me.

I've once subbed to a "we only reply to acceptances" market, and realised after I'd done it that it was pretty stupid. It's tantamount to a market saying "we're just SO important that we only have time to deal with those who MATTER", but anyone who knows anything about publishing must be aware that many best-seling, fantastically popular writers (right up to Dan Brown and J K Rowling) have had their works ignored and rejected, so who's to say who really "matters"? I know many magazines get swamped with subs and find it hard to keep up (and in particular have trouble because the moment they reject author X's first story, another one will be on the way, no matter how terrible the first story was and teh second story is certain to be), but if you can't handle that prospect, well, you shouldn't be an editor.

"The Box Of Beautiful Things" - IGMS#3

"The Man Who Was Never Afraid" - Abyss and Apex #19

"What The Sea Refuses" - Black Gate (forthcoming)

"When Winter Came" - ASIM (forthcoming)

erazmus
Master

Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 4557

Posted 7/6/2007 11:12 AM (GMT -5)

Slush Parties.
Not always the evil they sound like. Sure, some are. But I've seen the process do right by us writers.
Got invited to a slush party at a con. It wasn't an open event-- the editors invited writers and eaders they knew, because we were at the Con and could all get together, and none of us had anything currently in the pile, and the editors trusted us to screen what had, due to an "unfortunate chain of events", turned into a nightmare of a slush pile.
Everything got read by at least two of us, everything got at least the first page read entirely by each reader. That was sometimes a chore. We reduced a six hundred 'script pile down to about fifty possibles that the editors took to consider. It took most of a day, and there were (I think) twelve of us. A lot of the obvious rejections were, well, really obvious-- wrong genre, poorly spelled, that sort. We didn't really do much pass around and mock, there were just too many to take the time.
I wouldn't want to submit to a market that did these regularly, as a routine part of the submision process, but sometimes you just have to do something.

Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php

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