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SFReader Forums > SFReader > Ask The Expert > What Makes a BAD Editor?

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Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/4/2007 4:04 PM (GMT -5)

(following up on BitterHermit's "good Editor" thread)

OK writers, let's hear it!

What does, in your opinion, make a bad editor?

I have some ideas:

1) Editors who have too-slow response times. If you are going to edit a pub, freakin' do your job!

2) Editors who make sarcastic comments on rejections.

3) Editors who don't pay authors on time according to contracts.

4) Editors who have little or no track record of publishing new authors.

5) Editors who routinely ask you to submit future work but never accept anything!

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

erazmus
Master

Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 4539

Posted 7/4/2007 4:14 PM (GMT -5)

Doesn't pay on time, asks for changes without saying where and what, doesn't pay on time, loses changes you've sent in, doesn't pay on time, holds on to work he's going to reject for months before bothering to reject it, doesn't pay on time.
Thats the ticket.
Mike

Michael D. Turner
"Psyched Up" in _Turn the other Chick_-ed. E. Friesner-Baen books
www.baen.com
"Dutchman Rescue"in Continuum SF #6
www.continuumsciencefiction.com/orders.htm

"An Incident at Black Tongue Tavern" in _Bash Down the Door and Slice Open the Badguy_ from Fantasist Enterprises:
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php
www.fantasistent.com/books/anthologies/BASH.php

Jordan Lapp
Top 5 Poster

Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2806

Posted 7/4/2007 5:22 PM (GMT -5)

Mike,

You forgot "doesn't pay on time" ;)

Jordan Lapp

Without Really Trying blog

Hermit
Diavhrati Luminary

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1729

Posted 7/4/2007 6:20 PM (GMT -5)

Daniel said...
(following up on BitterHermit's "good Editor" thread)

OK writers, let's hear it!

What does, in your opinion, make a bad editor?

I have some ideas:

1) Editors who have too-slow response times. If you are going to edit a pub, freakin' do your job!

I think I'm on fire . . .

2) Editors who make sarcastic comments on rejections.

I thought you liked being insulted; aren't all literary types afflicted with martyr complexes? How can it be bad of me to justify your self-image?

3) Editors who don't pay authors on time according to contracts.

My first divorce and subsequent bankruptcy taught me the value of contracts - oh! and I'm just following the lead from the Hill . . .

4) Editors who have little or no track record of publishing new authors.

Thank you! At least I've got that going for me.

5) Editors who routinely ask you to submit future work but never accept anything!

Sometimes no means no. And yet we condition it to protect ourselves from appearing despotic.

Seriously, though, I agree with these points as far as pro pubs go, but you really have to cut us PT bastards some slack. Especially with response times. Not on payment. Sarcastic remarks can be useful, but I don't think that's what you're talking about. Sarcasm rarely works in writing unless you know each other well enough to realize the tone. Number four may merely signify a weak or immature editor - those standards may be set by a higher authority (respect it or not). Any editor guilty of #5 is doing himself a disfavor by not clearly identifying the reason for the rejection and holding out guidance to said writer.

Exile of my own dull vice. . .

Jordan Lapp
Top 5 Poster

Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2806

Posted 7/4/2007 6:52 PM (GMT -5)

I'd rather have a sarcastic but useful response than a form response, or no response at all.

Jordan Lapp

Without Really Trying blog

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/4/2007 6:52 PM (GMT -5)

1) Editors who have too-slow response times. If you are going to edit a pub, freakin' do your job!
I think I'm on fire .

***

Slow response times kill, but maybe I should qualify that one: I mean slowww, as in months to years, not weeks to months.

On the other acct's. I'm guilty of them all, but I am not an editor any longer, just a writer, so I can now bitch freely about editors. When I'm not ardently defending them! Or justifying their mysterious ways!

LOL

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/4/2007 6:55 PM (GMT -5)

I'd rather have a sarcastic but useful response than a form response, or no response at all.

***

I wouldn't! I hate snooty editors. Who the heck are they to judge my work anyway!

They should just publish what I send them and leave their snarky comments for their spouses or discussion forums!

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Hermit
Diavhrati Luminary

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1729

Posted 7/4/2007 7:17 PM (GMT -5)

Well, I'm at a bit of a loss in this forum as far as fiction and such as only one editor has really made any comments on my fiction. Would have liked more detail, but he's busy being asiduously quick to reply.

But as for poetry:

What bothers me more than an opinionated editor whose opinion I don't like but respect as honest, is the BS brushoffs of an editor who brushes his eyes over a work of mine with less intensity than I whisper vermouth over a dry martini and then uses some stock tripe like "show don't tell" or "wordy" or "trite" or "didn't pull me in" or such. Worse are the notes you get back explaining that your work is really good and the editor would really love to publish it but he's not exactly certain why he has to reject it as it's really a little better than most of what they usually publish. Grow a pair! Is it just me, or is it better to get an honest rejection than it is to get a note of condolences.

Actually, I ocassionally like for editors to send me bonehead remarks. I'm at my best pissed off: success is the greatest revenge!

Hypocracy rocks! I speak the gospel of the double-standard. Will you testify, my brother? Testify!

Exile of my own dull vice. . .

Camille Alexa
fictionista

Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 628

Posted 7/4/2007 7:43 PM (GMT -5)

Daniel said...
(following up on BitterHermit's "good Editor" thread)

OK writers, let's hear it!

What does, in your opinion, make a bad editor?

Well, not necessarily a bad editor, but...

An editor who accepts only email subs (which I adore, by the way), but doesn't give any indication of receipt--in the form of an auto-response or anything else--within a few days (I'm not talking about acceptance/rejection; merely acknowledgement of submission).

I know for a fact I'm treading close to a couple of local toes, but there you have it.

Also, and this is the rudest thing imaginable, in my opinion: "We respond only to accepted submissions/queries... No simultaneous submissions."

Yuck, and completely unethical. And also, Yuck Again.

I think it's in no way an editor's job to crit one's piece (though I suppose it is his or her prerogative). A simple, polite 'yea, thank you' or 'nay, thank you' is the only requirement. Anyone who has ever slush-wrangled or edited would probably not demand otherwise.

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/4/2007 7:46 PM (GMT -5)

I'm at my best pissed off: success is the greatest revenge!

***

Hey anger and revenge worked for Sylvia Plath, but then again she had to kill herself to really make her point!

Anger and revenge do make better emotions for writers than supplication and devotion,at least if you listen to the Beat writers, whom I certainly don't take as role models, personally, but advise others to do so, copiously. At least most of the time! On Sundays. And when it is appropriate and advisable for the maintenance of my sacred hypocratic vows.

Or is that hippocratic? Or hippocampus?!?! Something in the brain, anyway, if not in the sacred sunflower, by all good authority! And by that I mean Blake, or at least someone who claimed to know him. Ah!

What I mean is, beyond all voodoo and voodoo dolls:

Living well is the best revenge!!!

LOL

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

nathan
Sage

Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2122

Posted 7/4/2007 8:35 PM (GMT -5)

Why would sarcasm ever be useful except as an exercise in ego for the person laying it out?

Rejection comes with the territory. Buck up. Terse rejection come with the massive slush piles. Buck up.

Taking the time to be snotty? What the hell does that say about them?

Not paying? That's called theft. Slow responses are such a problem in this industry. It really ruins things in a lot of ways but it's not anyones fault, I don't think (?)

New Authors? I weep like a baby that the industry has changed from a focus on career-building to one of lottory ticket mindsets. Weep for babylon, weep...

Here's a few of my own:

Editors who don't get classic literary/mythological/symbology references.

Editors who can only judge work in styles/genres they personal like or approve of.

Sociopaths.

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/4/2007 8:50 PM (GMT -5)

Editors who don't get classic literary/mythological/symbology references.

Editors who can only judge work in styles/genres they personal like or approve of.

Sociopaths

***

Charlatans!!!

Narrow-minded bigots!!!

Swine!

The only good editor is a drunk editor!

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

nathan
Sage

Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2122

Posted 7/4/2007 9:00 PM (GMT -5)

Daniel said...
Editors who don't get classic literary/mythological/symbology references.

Editors who can only judge work in styles/genres they personal like or approve of.

Sociopaths

***

Charlatans!!!

Narrow-minded bigots!!!

Swine!

The only good editor is a drunk editor!

NOW we're on to something!

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews

von Darkmoor
Small Press Publisher (and Dancer still)

Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 3056

Posted 7/4/2007 9:33 PM (GMT -5)

Daniel said...

The only good editor is a drunk editor!

So that's what's missing . . . . Waiter!

~~~~~~~~~~
Jason M. Waltz
Fantasy Editor Staffs & Starships Magazine
~~~~~~~~~~
Ever waltz with the Devil? Or devil with a Waltz? Visit von Darkmoor's thoughts to find out (and read a review or two).

crystalwizard
Forum Moderator

Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 5004

Posted 7/4/2007 9:45 PM (GMT -5)

Bad Editor = someone you don't personally classify as a Good Editor.

Never meddle in the affairs of a wizard unless you are soggy and hard to light!

Visit my art gallery on art wanted at
http://artwanted.com/crystalwizard

All my books in print:
http://sojourn.omnitech.net

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/4/2007 11:39 PM (GMT -5)

So that's what's missing . . . . Waiter!

***

Make it a triple!

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/4/2007 11:40 PM (GMT -5)

Also, and this is the rudest thing imaginable, in my opinion: "We respond only to accepted submissions/queries... No simultaneous submissions."

***

I hate that one, too.

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/4/2007 11:43 PM (GMT -5)

New Authors? I weep like a baby that the industry has changed from a focus on career-building to one of lottory ticket mindsets. Weep for babylon, weep...

***

It always kills me when editors say: short fiction is how a writer hones their craft to become a better writer and go on to selling novels. But the same editor seldom, or never, will give a new writer a break.

Hello. If it's a stepping stone to better things let the well-published step on up and let some new blood in!

This especially holds true, IMHO, for the top paying markets, most of which are very difficult to crack for a 1st timer. Not impossible, but nearly.

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Dragon Angel
Lord Dragon

Date Joined Sep 2004
Total Posts : 1066

Posted 7/5/2007 10:31 AM (GMT -5)

Editors who hype a magiazine that never ever comes out and hold onto works for about two years, then vanish without ever saying anything to anyone. The only clues being the lack of updates to the webpage then its eventual disappearance.

Editors who give up before their magazine has a chance to really take off.

Editors who reject you with a bit too much honesty. ;)

read free fiction and poetry at http://www.geocities.com/davidolson22/index.html

Part dark, part light. And gooey in the middle.

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/5/2007 10:33 AM (GMT -5)

Editors who hype a magiazine that never ever comes out

***

Oh, yeah! Or one that only puts out a single issue....

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

Hermit
Diavhrati Luminary

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1729

Posted 7/5/2007 1:30 PM (GMT -5)

nathan said...

Why would sarcasm ever be useful except as an exercise in ego for the person laying it out?

Do I really need to answer that, Nathan? Hey, we're people too. I'm talking about cases of dealing with authors with whom you already have an editorial relationship. At some point, editors and writers should be able to call 'bullshit' on each other. Perhaps "sarcasm" is too strong a term? A sardonic reply? "Jonny Writer: what the hell buddy? You send such good work; how long you had this in the closet? I realize we published the last four things you send, but you know they were great peices. Is this even your work?" But that's the kind of thing you wouldn't even dream of writing wtih a new contact. Once you know each other well enough to realize humor - even sharp humor - then it's a matter of person-to-person with a slight heirarchy in favor of the editor. I hate feeling like some high priest with supplicants coming to kiss the ring - I much prefer a personal note once we know each other. Golden rule. You're polite to me, I'll be polite to you. You get rude with me, I'm likely to just block you. Not worth either's time to vent.

Rejection comes with the territory. Buck up. Terse rejection come with the massive slush piles. Buck up.SING it Brother!

Taking the time to be snotty? What the hell does that say about them? A$$whole! That's the word I would use on myself or anyone else. Chances are you're not snotty about anything you think you are - it's as manly as kicking the dog for your kid's leaving a toy in the yard.

Not paying? That's called theft. Slow responses are such a problem in this industry. It really ruins things in a lot of ways but it's not anyones fault, I don't think (?) It's also called breach of contract - if you do it right.

Editors who don't get classic literary/mythological/symbology references. Does inept actually count for bad? A guy has to start somewhere.

Editors who can only judge work in styles/genres they personal like or approve of. (Editors who can only judge work in styles and/or genres of which they personally approve or are fond.) Range makes for a good editor, but is it really fair to put a 'bad' sticker on a specialist if he or she is good at that specialty?

Sociopaths. Isn't this a perquisite - and a prerequisite?

Exile of my own dull vice. . .

Hermit
Diavhrati Luminary

Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1729

Posted 7/5/2007 1:38 PM (GMT -5)

Dragon Angel said...
Editors who hype a magiazine that never ever comes out and hold onto works for about two years, then vanish without ever saying anything to anyone. The only clues being the lack of updates to the webpage then its eventual disappearance.

Editors who give up before their magazine has a chance to really take off.

Editors who reject you with a bit too much honesty. ;)

What exactly is "too much honesty"?

I was told once that I should never submit poetry again - that the mail was too full of less-than-mediocre talents with a slim chance for me to send out the crap I was trying to pass off.

One of these days that pathetic individual is going to be smoking a turd in hell and reading my poetry in the pages of The Paris Review!

Gee. I wonder why I'm so slow to submit anything these days?

Exile of my own dull vice. . .

Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy

Date Joined Aug 2003
Total Posts : 4515

Posted 7/5/2007 3:54 PM (GMT -5)

I was told once that I should never submit poetry again - that the mail was too full of less-than-mediocre talents with a slim chance for me to send out the crap I was trying to pass off.

***

My God who said that!?! Moron(s).

I wouldn't ever say that to anyone as an editor! I've seldom thought it, actually. Sometimes with the SFreader contest people send really weird stuff like computer-generated gibberish and once a writer enthusiastically informed me he had written his entire short story BACKWARDS as though this was a Good Thing. LOL Still, even then, I read at least a few "backward" paras and sent him a SR (standard rejection).

Excessive profanity or pornographic writings have often tempted me to say "Maybe you should try another line of work. Politics, maybe? Or talk radio?"

Dave, for the record, you are one of the most talented poets I know personally and I expect to be told when you get published in the Paris Review! That goes for Sio as well! I really loved her poem from the latest PQ "I Picture Crows." An excellent piece of work!!!!

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

nathan
Sage

Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2122

Posted 7/5/2007 4:01 PM (GMT -5)

Bitter Hermit said...

nathan said...

Why would sarcasm ever be useful except as an exercise in ego for the person laying it out?

Sociopaths. Isn't this a perquisite - and a prerequisite?

Oh I agree with your first point, I meant initial rejection letters. God knows one only has to look at how Daniel improved my writing to see how pointed sarcasm can really work. I meant in the "this isn't for us--but gee you're just a great writer school.

Specialists are acceptable if the focus of the mag is so. A (suppossedly)more generic appeal short story mag with an editor who only likes Urban Fantasy, for example.

Being a sociopath does cut down on the guilt factor