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nathan
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   Posted 5/25/2007 12:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Question. There are many reporters/news writers/editors on this board it seems and I come seeking their wisdom.
 
Could a reporter get away with writing a story gleaned from obviously illegal sources?
 
That is think poparazzi with a cause. The use of parabolic mikes, hidden recording devices, long range cameras, outright hacking, burglary B&E, wire tap, setting up a"Van Eck" monitor [computer moniters emit radio waves when in use-the VE monitor picks up that emmission and then translates it onto a screen allowing whatever is on the screen in the proximity to be read--like in an office building or a hotel room, etc] like an espionage operation for the press.
 
I realize the stuff is expensive but I'm thinking a Bob Woodard kind of guy who not only gets advances of several hundred thousand dollars to millions on his books but who also has those kind of contacts to get him equipment like a high end D.C. private investigator.
 
The question is this--if the reporter provided the editor with recordings, images, transcripts but refused to say how he got them (and his rep was good enough the publisher/editor trusted him not to be a NYT's Jason Blair) then would they run the ill-gotten proof as a story?
 
As this is fiction: I don't have to have rock solid realism, but rather acceptable plausibility.
 
Would such aggressive actions work in your esteemed opinions or is it somehow anethem to a newspaper/tv editor? Would an online news mage be more willing to run it than a traditional, etc etc?
 
Thanks guys


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"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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Hermit
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   Posted 5/25/2007 1:04 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Great question! And pretty much open to opinion. Depends on the editor's politics and intestinal (testosteronal) fortitude. Also very much depends on the political climate. Under the present regime, I doubt many reputable sources would do it unless it would benefit the White House. On the other hand, a less reputable tabloid might do it to push sales - the more inflammatory the better. Thing is, you're chancing everything from unemployment to jail to suspiscious loss of life or worse (most realistically loss of the job and/or career, financial loss, or incarceration). A junior editor might try to grease it past a senior editor for pole position. I think that's the way I'd push it. Junior editor trying to make his mark bypasses the system to spring the story. Sound reasonable? Or the senior editor sets himself up to use the ambitious youngster as fallguy.


Exile of my own dull vice. . .

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nathan
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   Posted 5/25/2007 1:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bitter Hermit said...

 Under the present regime, I doubt many reputable sources would do it unless it would benefit the White House. On the other hand, a less reputable tabloid might do it to push sales -


     I really like the junior editor nuance/angle, very astute--but are you really telling me you believe any of the Big 3 networks or major metro newspaper would sit on a story because it might make the White House look bad?

The media hates Bush (maybe for good reason, maybe not, that's not the point) and NBC just ran a story about on-going covert ops in Iran. Seems like any news paper that could get their hands on a Karl Rove+Haliburton-employee-share-hooker-who turns-out-to-be-a-russian-mafia-stringer-story (if you will smilewinkgrin , for example) would run with it.

I'm not necessairly trying to argue, it's only that the implication that the American press is somehow in the White House's pocket hit me from left field.

But in all seriousness, adding a hungry junior editor willing to push it past the Powers That Be is a nice twist.


VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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Hermit
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   Posted 5/25/2007 2:17 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The tides they are aturnin'
This last year has seen a resurgence in disclosure, but two years ago it was really difficult to find honest reporting about this regime. The present wind seems to smell much more of democracy and a lot less the reek of fascism. Not that i'm paranoid. Not that I'll cease to be paranoid just because the wind had changed directions. But there's another motivation - revenge for the damage done (real or imagined) by the regime on the rights and liberties of the press and the public. Another idea: start with the death (suspicious even) of a key player in that particular media source such as a key editor or old-school anchor. Or toss it to a hungry exec wanting to debut the next generation of 20/20 with a killer expose on that virgin-whore-prostitute-agent-turned-defector-nanoscientistengineer-HaliburtonCFOO-supersecret-antisemitic-racist-adopted-heroinchic-Hilton-orientalsupremisist-militant-teenage-mass-murdering trapezoidal marmot under orders from the Man himself to eradicate the homeless and feed starvation for the sake of the master race: MINK rules! For instance. But, I do believe the American press has been held at bay by the White House for a number of years; they lost a great deal of intimidation leverage with this last congressional race tilting the balance in favor of the Dems. It's basically a shift from super-conservativism toward a more rational moderate climate.
For what it's worth.


Exile of my own dull vice. . .

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nathan
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   Posted 5/25/2007 2:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I think the press has run rabid in war time.

I'm from Nevada and I voted for Harry Reid[*] so I'm pretty left but you seem to have had too many lunches with Michael Moore turn . (Just poking you with the semi-sharp stick of my underdeployed wit.)

MINK+junior editor=good thought fodder.

 

 

[* in other news: upon hearing about attempted terror attacks on U.S. soldiers at Fort Dix Senator Harry Reid called for an immediate redeployment of all troops out of the region] 


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"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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darkbow
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   Posted 5/25/2007 2:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nathan, what you asked about at the beginning of this post is possible, though it would probably be the exception instead of the rule for most of your mass media outlets.

My one concern is your term, "obviously illegal sources." I'm not really sure there is such a thing, from the media's POV. The media generally operates with a "it's better to ask forgiveness than permission" mindset when it comes to sources, so it's not as if the government dictates what are legal sources and what aren't legal sources. Theoretically, a reporter can get information any way possible, but the government might step in somehow to block it, or there might be a court case after the fact. There are some exceptions, such as when a judge puts a gag order on a trial or there are "top secret" documents, but even then the media has been known to break the rules on occassion, and usually has to pay a fine and/or a reporter ends up in jail for a while.

And as for a reporter not revealing a source to an editor, it happens pretty frequently. Not daily, but probably a few times a year at most of your major metro newspapers. The reason for this is twofold: It protects the source, and it protects the editor and/or publisher from some legal repurcussions. But yes, the reporter would have to be someone experienced and with a history of trustworthiness. If there's a court case, the reporter might be asked to reveal the source, and if the reporter does not then he or she faces jail time (usually not prison, but jail). Again, there are always exceptions, and a tough judge can do pretty much what they want, within reason.


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Hermit
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   Posted 5/25/2007 2:51 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

That's okay. I'm no expert anyway. I didn't even stay at a Lollygag Express last night (with or without aforementioned hooker).

No matter what they said in the news.

And I recently claimed to be an editor only by claim of holding that job title. Otherwise I'm just a writer painting mustaches on others' prose. :p


Exile of my own dull vice. . .

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nathan
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   Posted 5/25/2007 2:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Well by "obviously illegal" I mean things like B&E to place a wire tap, cell phone intercepts, etc stuff like that.

However that answers exactly what I was asking so thanks much for the insight.


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"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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nathan
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   Posted 5/25/2007 3:17 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Jason, Jeff, BH, etc since I have you let me expand.

I'm envisioning a thriller/mystery character. A freelance report who would have plausible reason to stick his nose into something but also a guy who doesn't mind breaking the rules if he thinks its for a greater good (yes a means-justify-ends guy, I tend to like them as protags). This guy would take the place of the ubiquitos private eye/spy/police detective but it would be slightly more realistic for things like equipment & contacts than the "meddlsome kid" archtype--I realize an investigative journalist is not exactly an unkown trope but still...

So would said person "work for the AP" or some such, or would they be refered to as something else? --if that question makes sense--


VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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MichaelEhart
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   Posted 5/25/2007 3:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No my friend, the media, especially the broadcast media, goes to the same cocktail parties and and lives in the same Georgetown neighborhoods as the administration.
Word is that the NBC story was leaked by the admisnistration to back up their tough-guy rhetoric-- remember that they recently agreed to actually talk to Iran, which has their base up in arms.
The media may not now be in the White House pocket, but for most of Bush's tenure they have been very enabling--- every time I hear that liberal media crap, which is so '80's, I ask them to remember the Clinton years---- dude they hated Clinton, an entire network was created to bash him. Coverage of Bush has been extremely favorable, even when he was polling in the mid 30's Chris Mathews kept his man crush and would say stuff like "but people still like him" and prattle on about the carrier landing.
The right wing has had a regular cottage industry of crying media bias. Do my exercise--- count the Sunday talk shows for liberal/conservative guest mix. 3-1 conservative, has been since the mid 90's.
You watch too much O'Reilly, whose schtick is that everyone is conspiring against him from the left. :)


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"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review. August 2007
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, July 2007
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, coming soon!
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, March 2007
"The Death of Number 23" Dark Krypt, Fall 2006
"Servant of the Manthycore" Sword Review, April 2006
"Voice of the Spoiler"  Better Fiction, Spring 2006
"Dancing with the Elder Gods"-- Thirteen Magazine, October 2005
"It's a Living" Byzarium---November 2005
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MichaelEhart
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   Posted 5/25/2007 3:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
back to your orginal question, most reporters will source things from whatever is available.


"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review. August 2007
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, July 2007
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, coming soon!
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, March 2007
"The Death of Number 23" Dark Krypt, Fall 2006
"Servant of the Manthycore" Sword Review, April 2006
"Voice of the Spoiler"  Better Fiction, Spring 2006
"Dancing with the Elder Gods"-- Thirteen Magazine, October 2005
"It's a Living" Byzarium---November 2005
"An Exorcism Straight, Hold the Elvis" The Sword Review, October 2005
Host, 2005 Nebula Awards Live Chat, sff.net
http://mehart.blogspot.com/

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nathan
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   Posted 5/25/2007 3:58 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I hear your angst Mike and I don't want to rehash the other thread here; we'll have to agree to disagree because I think based on what I'm seeing when I channel surf CNN/MSNBC, big NBC and CBS to counterbalance my 90 minutes of Fox a day that I see what I see [I mean have you heard Wolf & Jack McCafferty in the Situation Room?]. People telling me I don't see what I see isn't going to move me to the belief I don't SEE it.

However that is neither here nor there. I didn't start this to rearuge the NewsJunkies thread points. Bitter H just caught me off guard as while I can understand/comphrehend people thinking there's no left-bias in Large Media but for people to think Jason Blair, Katie Couric and Dan Rather (e.g.) were actively Carrying Water for the Admin just floored me and I allowed myself to digress.

I respect greatly your input on my outside-the-lines freelance reporter gathering his proof by hook or by crook. So try to think of me in that favorable light, lol. [did I mention I voted for Herry Reid?]

I hear you saying that if I provided audio/visual proving that Dick Chenny was a Sith Lord that I had gained by breaking into his house and illegally taping his phone and placing secret Nanny-Cams you'd run with it. Maybe you wouldn't want to hear just how I got those bytes of him in the shower with Nancy Pelosi but you'd take them just the same :-)


VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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Hermit
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   Posted 5/25/2007 4:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here's a morsel for thought:
Your hero(ine) is going to need to approach this kind of like any investigator. You have to meet a burden of proof. But you have to do it within a certain arena of legitimacy. So, you can find out the truth with the superspy stuff, but then you have to figure your way into meeting the burden of proof by legitimate means. CSI sort of stuff. Otherwise the libs out there are going to get all bent about HOW you got the information to the point of ignoring the real threat. Savvy? You have the illegally obtained evidence of a crime. So what? If you've got a scoop, it's got to be an ongoing concern, right? So now that you know enough about it to bring it from theory to knowlege, you should be able to figure out how to get 'acceptable' proof. Or simply go vigilante. But that's neither as effective or as inventive. Right? Have fun.


Exile of my own dull vice. . .

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Hamstersbane
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   Posted 5/25/2007 5:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I wouldn't have tried any such thing, but then I never did well in the whole "investigative" thing. I was always a better features reporter.
 
That being said, I think much of what you're talking about is plausable enough. Reporters either trying to make or keep a name for themselves at the big papers can get really agressive in their quest for information. It's beyond dog-eat-dog in the business.
 
I'm not sure "illegal" means are all that necessary, however (such as B&E, that kind of thing). One or two examples might work, but I think for the most part the better use would be the good ol' source. There are always people willing to sneak you information or spill their guts for a couple of bucks or a beer or just becuase they're worried about the state of the world today. That kind of thing. 
 
Reporters also work hard on their beats to develop close ties with a few people on the inside who can tell them stuff "off the record." Even if it's not official, it gives them a place to start hunting. And people also seem to like being anonymous sources.
 
  hop hop hop


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darkbow
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   Posted 5/25/2007 8:16 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yeah, "unnamed sources" are always a possibility. It seemed to be verbotten for awhile, but I've seen it more in the last decade or so.


And I have to go along with BH: Most reporters don't have to stoop to out-and-out breaking the law when it's always pretty easy to find somebody willing to talk.


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MichaelEhart
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   Posted 5/25/2007 8:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nathan, was I too strident? :)

Sourcing has two different issues, usually. Illegal or not, the question always has to be "is this source credible?" A lot of beat reporters know shady characters who will often give them something, but they are as skittish about atribution as your average Bush staffer, if more reliable. When I was a reporter I had an excellent source who was a very bad man, but through his connections often knew where I could look for things. When we get together at Orycon, or wherever, I'll tell you a little about him--- he is dead now, so I won't feel bad about it.

The other thing is "can I attribute", which has already been pointed out as less of a factor in recent years. A story filled with quotes by unnamed sources is weak, and used to be nearly impossible to get past either the senior blue-pencil or legal, if the story was hot enough.

Beyond the source is making certain as best you can any verifiables, either through documentation, physical evidence or by checking the story against other principles involved. Rule of thumb used to be if you could get three discrete sources to agree, you were golden, for an ordinary story. Bigger stuff fell under the rule of "Extrordinary claims require extrordinary proof" so you might be asked to get more to back it up.


"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review. August 2007
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, July 2007
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, coming soon!
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, March 2007
"The Death of Number 23" Dark Krypt, Fall 2006
"Servant of the Manthycore" Sword Review, April 2006
"Voice of the Spoiler"  Better Fiction, Spring 2006
"Dancing with the Elder Gods"-- Thirteen Magazine, October 2005
"It's a Living" Byzarium---November 2005
"An Exorcism Straight, Hold the Elvis" The Sword Review, October 2005
Host, 2005 Nebula Awards Live Chat, sff.net
http://mehart.blogspot.com/

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cussedness
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   Posted 5/26/2007 1:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Back in the 1980s when I was most active in journalism, I used a lot of the off the record material when individual sources might be harmed by the article.

I'd like to add that the reporter might also use some kind of mail drop. When I uncovered a guy doing illegal production and sales of Stephen King based student films, he went looking for me, but failed to find me because I was using a mail drop and that was the only address he had. I did the same thing when I was writing about illegal immigration during the same period.


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crystalwizard
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   Posted 5/26/2007 6:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
nathan said...
Question. There are many reporters/news writers/editors on this board it seems and I come seeking their wisdom.


Could a reporter get away with writing a story gleaned from obviously illegal sources?



Guess it depends on which planet your story is set AND if it's on this planet, what country it's in.

In the US? yeah, they could, but they'd have to do more fast talking than a reporter in say, the middle east.


nathan said...

That is think poparazzi with a cause. The use of parabolic mikes, hidden recording devices, long range cameras, outright hacking, burglary B&E, wire tap, setting up a"Van Eck" monitor [computer moniters emit radio waves when in use-the VE monitor picks up that emmission and then translates it onto a screen allowing whatever is on the screen in the proximity to be read--like in an office building or a hotel room, etc] like an espionage operation for the press.


How about a poparazzi who is really an undercover agent? Maybe if the editor wouldn't run the story, the agent could get some outside help to get it run anyway. Or something. (poor editor, too bad he slipped and fell in the bathtub, I hear he'll be out of the coma in a week or two...)
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STForstner
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   Posted 5/27/2007 11:40 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I'm not a journalist, but my thought would be that SOME editor would run the story if it was good enough, even if the reporter refused to disclose sources. Let's face it, standing in line at the market, you can read the headlines on a lot of publications that we know can't possibly have been written with any source other than about four fingers of Johnny Walker. UFO ATTACKS NAVAL BASE! CHILD BORN WITH BAT WINGS! GATES OF HELL OPEN! ROSIE ENGAGED TO DONALD TRUMP! rofl

 

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crystalwizard
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   Posted 5/27/2007 12:38 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
STForstner said...
ROSIE ENGAGED TO DONALD TRUMP!


Tisk. She's got more class than that!
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STForstner
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   Posted 5/27/2007 8:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Not according to the Donald. lol. I love watching those two.


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