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| SFReader Forums > Book, Magazine, and eZine Publishers > Paradox > Historical Novels & Novelists | Forum Quick Jump
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C.Cevasco
Paradox Forum Moderator
      
Date Joined Sep 2003
Total Posts : 994
| Posted 6/22/2005 3:18 PM (GMT -4) |   | The current issue of Paradox (#7) includes reviews of Sharon Kay Penman's latest historical mystery, Prince of Darkness, and Jeff Janoda's novel of medieval Iceland, Saga.
As a starting point, here's the place to discuss these books and authors. But I'd also like to see this thread expand to include discussion of other historical novels (new or old) and/or your thoughts/recommendations on your favorite historical novelists.
Chris
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Christopher M. Cevasco
Editor/Publisher
Paradox : The Magazine of Historical and Speculative Fiction
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odlog
Stablehand
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 9
| Posted 6/23/2005 7:39 AM (GMT -4) | | Chris,
I haven't had a chance to read either of the books above, but I'll add them to my list. The last truly excellent historical fiction I read was Robert McCammon's "Speaks the Nightbird." I also enjoy Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's "St. Germain" series. Yeah, her protagonist is a vampire, but her research is rigorous and it almost feels like the time period she writes in becomes a character in itself.
Some other authors I have enjoyed over the years: Mary Renault, Gore Vidal (particularly "Julian" and "Burr") Dorothy Dunnett, and the author who probably inspired my love of history in the first place: Raphael Sabatini.
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Rob Santa
Sage
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 1632
| Posted 6/23/2005 8:45 AM (GMT -4) | | I have two favorite historical novels: Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett and Aztec by Gary Jennings (which is my favorite book of all time, by the way). Follett's way of describing how ugly and brutal medieval life could be was amazing, and that communities centered around cathedrals and the church. It is far from a "religious" book and captivated me from start to finish. I especially liked how he killed off a major character about halfway through the novel (who, up until that point, I thought was the focus of the story - imagine my surprise).
Aztec is beyond description. The follow up novels don't really get my blood pumping, but this is a masterpiece if ever there was one. I've read all of Jennings' novels, and this one is the best. One of his other works, Spangle, is about a circus troupe traveling America immediately after the Civil War. He has another about Marco Polo and one about a warrior in the time of the Romans and Ostrogoths. Both of these are also very good reads that give plenty of insight into cultures viewed from their respective historical POV's.
Rob
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C.Cevasco
Paradox Forum Moderator
Date Joined Sep 2003
Total Posts : 994
| Posted 6/23/2005 11:20 AM (GMT -4) | | quote:
Originally posted by nathan meyer
Bernard Cornwell's Sharpe series has already been mentioned but no list of mine is complete without it.
I really have to get around to reading Cornwell's Sharpe series. I've thoroughly enjoyed everything else I've read by Cornwell--especially his Grail Quest trilogy set during the Hundred Years War.
I agree with everyone about Pillars of the Earth--one of the best historical novels I've ever read.
Has anybody read James Clavell's Shogun? I also thought that was incredible. It's massive too. I remember seeing the 10-hour TV miniseries when I was a little kid, and I went back and read the novel years later, so reading it I couldn't help picturing the main character as Richard Chamberlain.... I enjoyed Clavell's Noble House as well, but for the same reasons, I couldn't help picturing the two main rival characters as Pierce Brosnan and John Rhys-Davies....
I read James Michener's Hawaii a couple of years ago--a multi-generational epic about the really interesting but little known history of the Hawaiian Islands from the first Polynesian settlers and early Hawaiian culture up through the missionary era, the waves of Chinese, Japanese, and Filipino immigration, the rise of the pineapple industry, the US military-backed coup against the Hawaiian monarchy, and the march toward statehood in the 20th century--and also including some even less widely known bits about the role of the Japanese-American battalion (mostly made up of Hawaiian residents) who fought for the US in the European theater of WWII and ended up being (if I'm remembering correctly) the most decorated group of US soldiers in the war.
Chris
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Christopher M. Cevasco
Editor/Publisher
Paradox : The Magazine of Historical and Speculative Fiction
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Bruce Durham
Crom's Administrator & Drinking Buddy
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 675
| Posted 6/23/2005 3:22 PM (GMT -4) | | Aztec is excellent. And you certainly can't go wrong with Cornwell. I think the last really good historical novel I read was Pressfield's Gates of Fire, though I've been meaning to check out Virtues of War and Tides of War. Mary Renault is definitely recommended. I really enjoyed her book Funeral Games, about the Diodochi and the splintering of Alexander the Great's empire. Then there's Nigel Trantor's Robert the Bruce trilogy. Actually, just about anything by him is guaranteed a good read.
Rome at the time of Christ has been done to death. I like historical books that cover time-periods which are often neglected. Cecelia Holland always picks interesting subjects to write about, as does Sharon Kay Penman. Some famous people I'd love see a book on are Pyrrhus of Epirus, Prince Eugene of Savoy and Hannibal Barca -- intriguing people, very few titles.
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PaulMc
Sage
Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 1005
| Posted 6/23/2005 3:28 PM (GMT -4) | | Given this thread, have any of you (yet) read Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrel? It is a fantasy, but it is set in Napoleonic England. Very good stuff. Lots of historical details as to daily life of the time.
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C.Cevasco
Paradox Forum Moderator
Date Joined Sep 2003
Total Posts : 994
| Posted 6/23/2005 3:39 PM (GMT -4) | | Rob,
Aztec is one of those books I've been meaning to read for years but never got around to. But I think your strong words of praise for it have bumped it back up toward the top of my list. I'm going to get my hands on a copy and read it ASAP.
Chris
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Christopher M. Cevasco
Editor/Publisher
Paradox : The Magazine of Historical and Speculative Fiction
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Rob Santa
Sage
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 1632
| Posted 6/24/2005 5:30 AM (GMT -4) | | Chris, at 900 pages, Aztec is like Shogun (yup, read it after the miniseries, too), a massive story that takes place in a world, not just a setting. I've read it 20 times, easy. There are times in the book where I have to put it down, the power of it is simply overwhelming. And what's amazing to me is that as I get older, new parts of the book affect me in different ways, such as the protagonist's relationships with his friends, wife and children. Like two separate points in Frederick Forsythe's Odessa File (also a favorite and read many times - side note: it has the best ending of any book I've ever read), I'm amazed and envious every time I get to these points in the book where I feel crushed by the weight of circumstances in the protagonist's life. If I could write a tenth that well...
Could I offer my services to review this book for Paradox? I assure you it won't be a fawning gusher of praise, even though it's obvious how I feel about it.
Another side note...A friend of mine's father is one of the world's foremost experts on Central American history. When the discussion of this book came up one day, my friend mentioned his father read it and couldn't believe it wasn't a Master's thesis. Jennings knew his stuff, for certain, which is probably why this book is so fascinating for me. The tiniest details are accurate, and they absolutely fill the world with life and character. I feel M. Night Shyamalan read this book, because there's a scene in Signs where Mel Gibson's wife is pinned to a tree, she's been cut in half and is held together by the pressure of the car. Something like that happens in a little scene in Aztec, almost exactly like it's presented in the movie. Don't worry, it's not a spoiler, it's an unimportant scene involving a character that was only introduced for that scene which has no other affect on the plot other than to be interesting.
Okay, okay, enough already. I'll get back to working on the novel.
Rob
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C.Cevasco
Paradox Forum Moderator
Date Joined Sep 2003
Total Posts : 994
| Posted 6/26/2005 3:53 PM (GMT -4) | | Paul,
I've not yet read Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrel, but I've heard lots of good things about it. I'm sure someone here on the forum has read it.
Rob,
Thanks for the further thoughts on Aztec. Now I'm really chomping at the bit to dive into it. I ordered a copy online and it should be arriving next week... As for the review, I appreciate the offer, but I try to limit the book reviews in Paradox to new releases (released a few months to a year before the magazine issue hits the stands). Send me an e-mail, though, if you think you might be interested in reviewing something else, and I'll keep you in mind for the future.
Chris
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Christopher M. Cevasco
Editor/Publisher
Paradox : The Magazine of Historical and Speculative Fiction
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C.Cevasco
Paradox Forum Moderator
Date Joined Sep 2003
Total Posts : 994
| Posted 8/29/2005 5:08 AM (GMT -4) | | Just following up on my previous post . . .
Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrel has certainly been racking up the awards: Hugo, Mythopoeic, nominated for the British Fantasy Award, etc.
I also started reading Aztec about a week ago. I'm about 125 pages or so into it, and so far I must agree with all of the above comments; it is quite compelling and chock full of amazing insights into Aztec culture.
Chris
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Christopher M. Cevasco
Editor/Publisher
Paradox : The Magazine of Historical and Speculative Fiction
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2469
| Posted 8/29/2005 1:03 PM (GMT -4) | | Raphael Sabatini, of course, and Dumas.
Patrick O'Brien never fails to satisfy.
Aztec is amazing, but I liked Journeyer better.
"Oathbreaker" Mythica Vault
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Despiciblus
Neophyte
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 97
| Posted 9/1/2005 5:32 PM (GMT -4) | | The Flashman series by George MacDonald Fraser is wonderful.
The Sharpe series should be on everyone's reading list.
Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrel was the best book I read last year. [:p] | | Back to Top | | |
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Red Viper
Acolyte
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 439
| Posted 9/1/2005 8:14 PM (GMT -4) | | I'll toss in "An Instance of the Fingerpost," by Iain Pears. It's a mystery of sorts, set mostly in Reconstruction England. The book plays greatly with the way science and religion were butting heads at the time. I'm not an historical scholar by any means, but it all felt right to me and Pears has a reputation for getting his nuts and bolts in proper order. Some of the exchanges between theologians and physicians in this book are priceless, and the daily details of life are used to fine effect. Plus, it's a pretty good read to boot.
I also enjoyed "Household Gods," by Judith Tarr and Harry Turtledove. It's a fantasy about a modern woman transported into the body of one of her ancestors on the ancient Roman frontier. The book goes into extensive detail about daily life -- cooking, cleaning, religion, bathing, social mores, flirting, etc. -- and tells a ripping good yarn in the process.
Forester's "Hornblower" books never fail me. And Sabatini and Dumas are idols of mine.
I'll second votes for "Gates of Fire" and for Patrick O'Brien's Naval novels as well -- although I caution you to not attempt reading two or more O'Briens in a row. Do that, and there's a certain sameness to the books that becomes overwhelming. Spread them out a bit, and it's good stuff.
Red Viper, aka Steve Goble
Fantasy writer with stories appearing soon in "Flashing Swords" and "Amazing Journeys Magazine" | | Back to Top | | |
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C.Cevasco
Paradox Forum Moderator
Date Joined Sep 2003
Total Posts : 994
| Posted 9/2/2005 5:51 AM (GMT -4) | | quote:
Originally posted by Red Viper
I'll toss in "An Instance of the Fingerpost," by Iain Pears. It's a mystery of sorts, set mostly in Reconstruction England. The book plays greatly with the way science and religion were butting heads at the time. I'm not an historical scholar by any means, but it all felt right to me and Pears has a reputation for getting his nuts and bolts in proper order. Some of the exchanges between theologians and physicians in this book are priceless, and the daily details of life are used to fine effect. Plus, it's a pretty good read to boot.
My brother-in-law gave me a copy of this book and highly recommended it. It's been sitting on my shelf for the past few years, and I keep meaning to read it. One of these days I'll actually get around to it . . .
Chris
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Christopher M. Cevasco
Editor/Publisher
Paradox : The Magazine of Historical and Speculative Fiction
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Red Viper
Acolyte
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 439
| Posted 9/5/2005 9:42 PM (GMT -4) | | Chris: Please do read "An Instance of the Fingerpost." Read at night, in your favorite spot, some time when your intellectual juices are flowing strongly. Then let me know what you thought of it.
Red Viper, aka Steve Goble
Fantasy writer with stories appearing soon in "Flashing Swords" and "Amazing Journeys Magazine" | | Back to Top | | |
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Jeff Janoda
Stablehand
Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 3
| Posted 9/19/2005 6:47 PM (GMT -4) | | I agree that Shogun was a seminal work of historical fiction. Clavell's whole Asian saga captivated me for years. He has an excellent grasp of the omniscient 3rd person style, dipping into the minds of many characters even as he focusses on one. You can see where he makes decisions about plot in his books, and has the courage to let things stay as they are without going back to change whole plot lines to accomodate his new ideas. He is a believer in the idea that the novel is "a loose baggy monster", as Joyce put it. Things don't mesh perfectly, because people don't act perfectly. But the overall power of his stories is immense.
Another work of genius is Gene Wolfe's "Soldier of the Mist", set in the days after Marathon in Ancient Greece. Wolfe really captured the mind and heart of the age in a profound and memorable way, though his book leans more toward fantastical history than true historical fiction. "Gates of Fire" is an excellent novel, of course.
Since we're talking favourites, a book I pick up and read every couple years is Delderfield's "Seven men of Gascony" which follows a troop of frenchmen who make their way as a squad of light infantry in Napolean's army. A terse, removed style, yet razor sharp in its observation of character. The seven men he describes are pictures of the men of their age. He captures the spirit of the raw men who drove the Revolution and more exactly Napolean's conquests far beyond common sense.
Finally, Richard Mckenna's "The Sand Pebbles". An excellent novel from a tragically shortened writing career. It depicts the life of a sailor on an American gunboat in China during the initial rising of the communist and nationalist forces before WWII, and was made into a movie starring Steve McQueen. Almost impossible to get anywhere, and out of print, I believe. | | Back to Top | | |
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2469
| Posted 9/19/2005 9:04 PM (GMT -4) | | "Seven men of Gascony" is a wonderful book, though a little maudlin--- best read during a boozy weekend with rain.
"The Sand Pebbles" is both a great book (semi-autobiographical)about an almost unknown series of events in 20th century history, and an almost impossibly good movie--"Wouldn't want to mess with a man's rice bowl."
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Rob Mancebo
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 1129
| Posted 9/20/2005 2:50 AM (GMT -4) | | quote:
"The Sand Pebbles" is both a great book (semi-autobiographical)about an almost unknown series of events in 20th century history, and an almost impossibly good movie--"Wouldn't want to mess with a man's rice bowl."
- Yes, I was amazed at the Author's ability to spend whole pages describing hardware that we'll never see-- it was antique even at the time-- and yet hold the audience's interest. A tremendous book about important events that most people will never hear about.
Rob
Adventure-History-Fantasy-Folklore
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C.Cevasco
Paradox Forum Moderator
Date Joined Sep 2003
Total Posts : 994
| Posted 9/20/2005 8:04 AM (GMT -4) | | Jeff,
Good to see you here. Welcome to the Forum!
I'll definitely have to track down a copy of Soldier of the Mist; it sounds like something I'd enjoy.
And for those of you who haven't connected the dots, Jeff is the author of the novel, Saga, which I reviewed in the current issue of Paradox. It's a very compelling read and one I'd certainly recommend to anyone interested in either medieval Iceland or in historical fiction generally.
Chris
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Christopher M. Cevasco
Editor/Publisher
Paradox : The Magazine of Historical and Speculative Fiction
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Jeff Janoda
Stablehand
Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 3
| Posted 9/20/2005 8:27 AM (GMT -4) | | Thanks for the welcome, Chris. Glad to be among fellow enthusiasts.
In the long list of titles above, I forgot to include the greatest of all, the whole series of Hornblower novels by C.S. Forester (though the first four are really the best). There have been many imitations (including 'Master and Commander') but all have been footnotes to Forester. Sadly, the BBC series did not live up to the books. That Hornblower was far too modern, far too humanitarian and soft, and had not nearly enough of the savagery that the restrained character of Hornblower exhibited now and then, a fine contrast to his analytical side. This duality just didn't come out on the screen, and it is the real magic behind the character. IMHO | | Back to Top | | |
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2469
| Posted 9/20/2005 9:43 AM (GMT -4) | | Oh boy, I get to rough up the new guy!
Welcome!
I enjoyed the Hornblower series when I was in high school, and it is an important body of work. But if you are judging O'Brien's Aubrey/Maturin series by just seeing the film "Master and Commander" you are missing some pretty dang fine reading.
Stylisticly, O'Brien was a master, and his battle scenes were far superior to Forrester's sometimes muddled depictions. Character development likewise has to go to O'Brien--- the relationships, friendships, and rivalries are a pavane to Forrester's foxtrot.
Forrester's info dumps could really drag, too. On the other hand O'Brien's prose can sometimes be annoyingly dense, and his later few books suffered from hurried endings, and occasional off-stage events that robbed the reader of the pay-off.
Without the popularity, and the high quality of writing (and respect for that writing) that Forrester brought to the sea story, especially the Napoleonic War sea story, O'Brien would have stayed an obscure writer of children's stories and Irish Angst novels. But O'Brien took the genre to the next level, and made it literature.
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Jeff Janoda
Stablehand
Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 3
| Posted 9/20/2005 10:45 AM (GMT -4) | | Oh, I'm a tough guy. I can take it.
Have to admit that I'm basing my opinion on the film 'Master and Commander', rather than the books, which I haven't read, so I'll take your word for it. Still, I see any British naval scene, I see something from Hornblower.
I don't know about the battle scenes, though. The key to writing a good battle scene is less rather than more. Too much description, even good description, leads to a big brake in narrative pace, and that makes any fight seem less credible. Forrester knew how to convey the immediacy and jarring nature of combat through the eyes of his characters. You don't often get an overhead third person description of a battle in Hornblower. It's nearly always from the character's point of view, and sometimes that is pretty jumpy. He knew that, and used it. You will note in movies as well, that any really effective battle scene always seems to have more umph when shown from the immediate combatants point of view. Exceptions abound of course. The overhead view of the Riders of Rohan smashing into the armies of Mordor in Lord of the Rings was pretty impressive. Wonder how I'd write that...:) | | Back to Top | | |
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2469
| Posted 9/20/2005 1:28 PM (GMT -4) | | quote:
The overhead view of the Riders of Rohan smashing into the armies of Mordor in Lord of the Rings was pretty impressive. Wonder how I'd write that...:)
Sometimes I am grateful that I don't have to write something.[:)]
LOL like this dang tech manual that I am slacking on by posting here.
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jackmangan
Neophyte
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 79
| Posted 10/4/2005 10:29 PM (GMT -4) | | My $0.02 on this topic:
Yes, I definitely recommend Gates of Fire (about the Spartan stand at Thermopylae against the Persians).
Chris, I agree that Clavell's Shogun is excellent! Tai-Pan is similar, and also very good. King Rat is pretty good.
I have to recommend Eiji Yoshikawa, for authentic Japanese historical fiction though. I've read his novels, Musashi, based on the legendary swordsman, and Taiko, about Toyotomi Hideyoshi. Both are fantastic, though I think I liked Musashi better. Both are about 1000 pages, and the translation tends to be pretty stylistically dry, but they're both fascinating reads.
One more of note: King Hereafter by Dorothy Dunnett. Tells the life story of Thorfinn of Orkney, the real Macbeth. Good stuff.
Get Spherical!
"Spherical Tomi" from Creative Guy Publishing
http://www.fictionwise.com/ebooks/eBook33162.htm
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C.Cevasco
Paradox Forum Moderator
Date Joined Sep 2003
Total Posts : 994
| Posted 10/5/2005 6:05 AM (GMT -4) | | Thanks for the recommendations. I'll definitely have to look into Eiji Yoshikawa's writing and Dunnett's King Hereafter. Both sound interesting.
Chris
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Christopher M. Cevasco
Editor/Publisher
Paradox : The Magazine of Historical and Speculative Fiction
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