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Daniel
Carl Jung's Waterboy



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  		   Posted 10/4/2007 1:50 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Interesting -- but not so surprising -- developments on the Hill re: the Blackwater case.
 

"Art is the celebration of the ego's destruction."

Daniel

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Dave Panchyk
Yankanuck



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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 3:48 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Godwin is worse than Hitler. :-P

Dave Panchyk
Verbum Scriptum - Writing and the Soul
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MichaelEhart
Sage



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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 3:46 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Isn't there a clause in Godwin's Law about the Turner Diaries?

Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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nathan
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 3:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dave Panchyk said...
Nathan, of course I've heard the conspiracy theories. FEMA's "performance" in that regard was almost disappointing; if they did make an attempt at imposing martial law, it would look more like Hogan's Heroes than The Turner Diaries.

It'd be rofl if it wasn't so cry .
 
The Turner Diaries? Are you even allowed to talk about that without lightning striking? Now the writing in that is so sad   that it is rofl

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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Dave Panchyk
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 3:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MichaelEhart said...
I understand the reason why they were brought in, all paranoia aside. The LNG were mostly deployed in Iraq, and so they needed someone to take their place. Not the best decision, but in this case I think it was stupidity and greed rather than malice that lead to the decision.
Granted, although we've seen the inner cabal contains some who have combined greedy short-sightedness with malice quite effectively. :-)
 
Nathan, of course I've heard the conspiracy theories. FEMA's "performance" in that regard was almost disappointing; if they did make an attempt at imposing martial law, it would look more like Hogan's Heroes than The Turner Diaries.

Dave Panchyk
Verbum Scriptum - Writing and the Soul
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nathan
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 3:10 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MichaelEhart said...
Yeah, the Bushies having been setting up expectations for the ouster of Maliki for a few weeks now, partly to shift blame, and partly as a concession to reality on the ground, which is a welcome change. That they are once again pressing for Allawi means they have pretty much given up on installing anyone remotely ethical or decent, and have decided that if there is going to be a homocidal petit-Hilter in charge of Iraq, he might as well be our homocidal petit-Hilter.

Something about trains? (he says wryly).
Of course many "people" having been making the argument that at least things were "stable" and "contained" under SH. Maybe Jr.s figuring "can't beat 'em join 'em."? Better a Musharif than a Hussien if that's all you have to choose from?
 
I'm recalling a quote (as I'm want to do): In Theory, Theory and Practice are the same. In Practice they're not.
 
 

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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MichaelEhart
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 3:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I understand the reason why they were brought in, all paranoia aside. The LNG were mostly deployed in Iraq, and so they needed someone to take their place. Not the best decision, but in this case I think it was stupidity and greed rather than malice that lead to the decision.

Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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nathan
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 3:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dave Panchyk said...
The thing that had a lot of folks concerned was the possible violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.

Dave didn't you see X-Files The Movie, arent you up on your conspiracy theories ;-) ?
Under Fema juristiction it's a different ballgame. Besides they were private citizens providing deputized security in a diaster zone. Not troops.
Technicalities blah-blah-blah.
Doesn't change the were "the hammer" mentality though.

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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MichaelEhart
Sage



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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 3:01 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yeah, the Bushies having been setting up expectations for the ouster of Maliki for a few weeks now, partly to shift blame, and partly as a concession to reality on the ground, which is a welcome change. That they are once again pressing for Allawi means they have pretty much given up on installing anyone remotely ethical or decent, and have decided that if there is going to be a homocidal petit-Hitler in charge of Iraq, he might as well be our homocidal petit-Hitler.

Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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nathan
Sage



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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 2:59 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What's up with this report saying:
"Iraq’s Interior Ministry said 11 people were killed when Blackwater contractors opened fire at random after mortar rounds landed near the convoy." ????

The other (AP) news story (linked) stated a "20 minute fire fight". What did they do? Recieve mortar fire with a diplomat inside, stop, then sit spray the neighborhood with line-of-sight weapons against indirect fire (mortars).

Seems more likely a complex ambush was initiated by mortar fire followed by machine guns. 11 people killed in crossfire? Okay. How many bodies were left after their brothers took the klashnikov's out of their hands so they'd be called "civilians"?

I wonder if this is more information from the 20-year old juice vendor the thread was mocking.

Talk about fog of war. The story didn't even make sense.

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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Dave Panchyk
Yankanuck



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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 2:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The thing that had a lot of folks concerned was the possible violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.

Dave Panchyk
Verbum Scriptum - Writing and the Soul
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nathan
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 2:51 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jeff Stehman said...

You're just jealous because you can't get away with.

If you got it: flaunt it.

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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nathan
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 2:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

According to the thread BW's Iraqi license lapsed a year ago. Apperantly all this means operationally for them is that they can't hire Iraqi citizens. They operate under the DoS mission in Iraq as the security.

Here's my prediction: Maliki goes before Blackwater does.

You'll note I'm not saying this good or bad just that the sudden Sunni shift in An Bar, etc has changed the playing field under Maliki's feet. He's taking a lot of heat and this "ground up" reconcilliation has in a practical sense weakened the central government.

(I wildly paraphrase)

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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Jeff Stehman
Sage

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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 2:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
nathan said...
Is this wrong?

You're just jealous because you can't get away with.

--Jeff Stehman

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MichaelEhart
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 2:29 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Looks like they are trying to kick everyone out--- this could be the only way they can get us to leave, or at least some of us. Clearly more going on here than meets the eye.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20831502/
Any time Maliki and al Sadr are singing from the same page, you know something's up.

Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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nathan
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 2:00 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

That's kinda good to here. Renovation stories don't always end so well. Nice change.

pm coming.

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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MichaelEhart
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 1:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Fortunately we are miles from the Hilltop, which is in turn not nearly so bad as it used to be. The standing joke used to be if you bought a house on the Hilltop, the Realtor included a case of ammo as a closing gift. Lots of changes, both from the inside and out have made the Hilltop much safer and way less weird. Ten years ago we would make a food bank delivery to some poor old lady, and I would stay in the van so my white face wouldn't cause trouble. There would be gang lookouts posted on every corner, and on territory divides there would be one guy with a red bandana around his leg glaring at another guy across the street wearing a blue bandana as a do rag. Both wearing big baggy coats in the middle of summer, to hide their hardware.
 
The Crips and the Bloods are years now under truce, the church and urban organizations have really worked hard, the neighborhood patrols and the Nation of Islam and the Panthers organized watches, and the real estate boom made properties worth rebuilding. Much different now.

The really sad part is we are in University Place, which is where the rich folks (and we) live. Which shows ignorance and hate recognize no economic boundaries.

Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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nathan
Sage



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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 1:27 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

You know I think there is more than a semantical difference between bodyguard and mercenary. But really we're on the same page.

Maybe she shouldn't canvas the Hilltop? ;-) [*]

 

 

 

*on the otherhand your wife's safety isn't funny so I send good thoughts your way.

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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MichaelEhart
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 1:22 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Quibble away. PMC is just a PC way of saying the same thing in modern context, though. Different structure, same profession. Yes there are some differences.
BTW, I have no real problem with the idea. PMC's are a tool, to be used for good or ill. The tool isn't the problem.
Due to weirdness in her campaign, my wife is doorbelling with volunteer bodyguards. (We can discuss this offline, if you like) I expect them to bring her home safely, same as the guys who hired BW expected them to bring home their principles. The difference is in degree, and in the setting of the mission.

Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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nathan
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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 1:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MichaelEhart said...

What a freakin' century we live in. Our own government hiring mercs to maintain order in one of our cities. Isn't this where we came in with this whole United States thingy? Hessians.

I was going to quibble (for the hell of it, it's what we do, lol) about the use of the term mercenary as it applies to PMC's--but I've learned to respect your mojo when you start talking early American history.
 
Now just close your eyes and think of Jeff in drag again...

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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MichaelEhart
Sage



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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 1:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It is. If they are there, and hired to do a job, no one should bitch about them doing it. The problem is not with Blackwater, as weird and scary as
their CEO may be. The problem is with the jackasses who put them in situations where the only way to accomplish what they are there for is to hose down a neighborhood with lead. Yes, the bad guys jumped them, but the whole situation is so screwed up.
You are so right about BW in NO. They had no business being there. But it wasn't like they decided on their own that it would be a nice place to visit. They were contracted there, by the jackasses in DC.
What a freakin' century we live in. Our own government hiring mercs to maintain order in one of our cities. Isn't this where we came in with this whole United States thingy? Hessians.

Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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nathan
Sage



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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 12:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MichaelEhart said...
Thanks Nathan. Now I have to rinse my eyes with bleach.

 but Fox seems to be the worst offender. When you have 20-30 of these barbie-doll "reporters" around, sooner or later they end up in the middle of the big story, unqualified and terrified.

I think you might think I'd argue with you on this but I think you're correct. The last outside the GZ footage I saw saw was Geraldo Riveria, that guy went out.
Since then it's always the same background shot when I watch reports.
 
I agree Reporters have been killed, I think it's just a numbers thing. If 10 reports (or whatever) were killed covering the last war (or which ever) and 13 get killed in this war then more reporters have been killed. But if only 16 reporters out of a thousand are going outside the GZ then you get the bitching despite more reporters being killed--not meant to represent acctual research.
 
I will say this. Reporters not meshing well with the troops seems a common complaint on blogs. I have to wonder how this affects coverage.
 
Maybe more reporters should hire BW? I mean the points made on the thread that BW brought their principles home from an ambush seems relevant.
 
 

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages."

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nathan
Sage



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  		   Posted 9/18/2007 12:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
H.P. Lovesauce said...
Blackwater's notoriety was sealed by their involvement in the Katrina aftermath.
Taking guys straight off Route Irish wild west missions and asking them to operate back CONUS was insane. Except for their medic missions but really, that was a bonehead move. Yeah NO was crazy and lawless--but it was American chaotic and lawless, not sandbox chaotic and lawless.
 
The only notoriety I think BW cares about is with DoS and their contracts for bodyguard work: which I think is pretty safe. Sometimes a "bad" rep in certain circles is a "good" rep in different paradigms.
 
Still if you read other threads on those boards it seems even other PMC's hate BW. Still everyone always hates whose ever on "top" as it were.
 
I just find it interesting to see them talk amongst themselves. What "truths" do they take for granted, what's their perspective, etc, etc.
 
I read a lot of forums with monday morning QB's and I feel it keeps my own perspective centered if I ghost forums with people who're acctually there. The active duty thread perspectives on that board can be just as interesting if one is even curious about how those there view the situation.
 
I'm caffenine rambling--but yeah BW didn't get to wear white hats after Katrina though some of the press coverage seemed slanted. You can search "katrina" or "new orleans" on that site and read some insider takes on that situation as well.
 

VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
 
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a