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| SFReader Forums > The Real World > World Events > Private Military "kicked" out of Iraq | Forum Quick Jump
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nathan
Sage
      
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2111
| Posted 9/17/2007 8:11 PM (GMT -4) |   | | OMG. It pays to surf a variety of forums. I'm sure anyone who watches the news today will hear/read/see the story about Blackwater getting kicked out of Iraq by their prime minister. Here's the link to a forum frequented by acctuall private military contractors--a good many of them posting online from Iraq.
The disparaty in views is truly humerous if you have time to scroll the 2-3 pages of comments.
I', not commenting on ethics or politics or what have you--just the gulf of difference between what those guys are saying and what we're seeing on this "hot button" issue of Private Military Companies.
I think there's irony here.
VIEW IMAGE"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
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nathan
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2111
| Posted 9/17/2007 9:10 PM (GMT -4) | | |
Thanks Dan!
Hey from Vancouver WA people.
Anyway that link to the forum is fascinating. Its a window into a completely different world. Watching these guys talk amongst themselves and noticing not so much the points themselves they talk about but, the things they take for granted that comes out unguarded: views of the media coverage, views of the Shia government, how things "get done" in Iraq--etc.
Like an anthropological window for people who've never been to Iraq. Much of it crazy.
VIEW IMAGE
"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2324
| Posted 9/17/2007 9:30 PM (GMT -4) | | | Note that they can't actually be kicked out, as the CPA early on gave Blackwater total immunity from prosecution. And, if the "sovereign" Iraqi government does prevail, they will just shift the 1000 or so direct Blackwater employees to another corp. and they will stay in the same jobs, just with a different letterhead on their paycheck.
Welcome back Nathan--- where the heck are you?
Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2324
| Posted 9/17/2007 11:26 PM (GMT -4) | | Dude, this means you can make my book launch party at orycon!
Wife still running for city council, work still takes too much of my time, and !my book! coming out in a couple of months.
Dail-up and no DVR? You know those words make no sense, but somehow manage to instill a sense of dread.
Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2324
| Posted 9/17/2007 11:44 PM (GMT -4) | | There will be a thread--- press release soon. Orycon is November 16-18 in Portland, of course. Launch party the evening of the 17th at the con. My wife is running in University Place WA, near Tacoma.
The repeat thing wears off soon--- in about 17 years, 10 months.
Which school did your wife end up at?
Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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H.P. Lovesauce
Necronomicondiment
Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 584
| Posted 9/18/2007 10:15 AM (GMT -4) | | | Blackwater's notoriety was sealed by their involvement in the Katrina aftermath. | | Back to Top | | |
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nathan
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2111
| Posted 9/18/2007 1:32 PM (GMT -4) | |
Jeff Stehman said...
Humph. I didn't read anything at that link that struck me as new, radical, or profound. You came back just to torment me, didn't you.
Well...yes!
I mean when I read the part about them talking about the female reporters doing stories on Baghdad after only seeing the weight room I thought of you...only in drag.
Is this wrong? 
VIEW IMAGE"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2324
| Posted 9/18/2007 1:40 PM (GMT -4) | | Thanks Nathan. Now I have to rinse my eyes with bleach.
Yeah, that has been a complaint I have heard on other forums, too, but howcome there have been more reporters killed in this war than any other in history? There are reporters out there laying it on the line. I think that may be a reaction to the Katie Couric blond newsreaders that the 24 hour newschannels have spawned. CNN has a bunch of those, but Fox seems to be the worst offender. When you have 20-30 of these barbie-doll "reporters" around, sooner or later they end up in the middle of the big story, unqualified and terrified.
Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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nathan
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2111
| Posted 9/18/2007 1:41 PM (GMT -4) | |
H.P. Lovesauce said...
Blackwater's notoriety was sealed by their involvement in the Katrina aftermath.
Taking guys straight off Route Irish wild west missions and asking them to operate back CONUS was insane. Except for their medic missions but really, that was a bonehead move. Yeah NO was crazy and lawless--but it was American chaotic and lawless, not sandbox chaotic and lawless.
The only notoriety I think BW cares about is with DoS and their contracts for bodyguard work: which I think is pretty safe. Sometimes a "bad" rep in certain circles is a "good" rep in different paradigms.
Still if you read other threads on those boards it seems even other PMC's hate BW. Still everyone always hates whose ever on "top" as it were.
I just find it interesting to see them talk amongst themselves. What "truths" do they take for granted, what's their perspective, etc, etc.
I read a lot of forums with monday morning QB's and I feel it keeps my own perspective centered if I ghost forums with people who're acctually there. The active duty thread perspectives on that board can be just as interesting if one is even curious about how those there view the situation.
I'm caffenine rambling--but yeah BW didn't get to wear white hats after Katrina though some of the press coverage seemed slanted. You can search "katrina" or "new orleans" on that site and read some insider takes on that situation as well.
VIEW IMAGE"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
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nathan
Sage
Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2111
| Posted 9/18/2007 1:49 PM (GMT -4) | |
MichaelEhart said...Thanks Nathan. Now I have to rinse my eyes with bleach. but Fox seems to be the worst offender. When you have 20-30 of these barbie-doll "reporters" around, sooner or later they end up in the middle of the big story, unqualified and terrified.
I think you might think I'd argue with you on this but I think you're correct. The last outside the GZ footage I saw saw was Geraldo Riveria, that guy went out.
Since then it's always the same background shot when I watch reports.
I agree Reporters have been killed, I think it's just a numbers thing. If 10 reports (or whatever) were killed covering the last war (or which ever) and 13 get killed in this war then more reporters have been killed. But if only 16 reporters out of a thousand are going outside the GZ then you get the bitching despite more reporters being killed--not meant to represent acctual research.
I will say this. Reporters not meshing well with the troops seems a common complaint on blogs. I have to wonder how this affects coverage.
Maybe more reporters should hire BW? I mean the points made on the thread that BW brought their principles home from an ambush seems relevant.
VIEW IMAGE"Writing the wet dreams of teenage boys" - Lindsey Llyod, Tangent Reviews
Tarantino himself has been forward and unapologetic about his influences. In a 1994 interview with Empire magazine, he said, "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." | | Back to Top | | |
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2324
| Posted 9/18/2007 2:07 PM (GMT -4) | | It is. If they are there, and hired to do a job, no one should bitch about them doing it. The problem is not with Blackwater, as weird and scary as
their CEO may be. The problem is with the jackasses who put them in situations where the only way to accomplish what they are there for is to hose down a neighborhood with lead. Yes, the bad guys jumped them, but the whole situation is so screwed up.
You are so right about BW in NO. They had no business being there. But it wasn't like they decided on their own that it would be a nice place to visit. They were contracted there, by the jackasses in DC.
What a freakin' century we live in. Our own government hiring mercs to maintain order in one of our cities. Isn't this where we came in with this whole United States thingy? Hessians.
Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2324
| Posted 9/18/2007 2:22 PM (GMT -4) | | Quibble away. PMC is just a PC way of saying the same thing in modern context, though. Different structure, same profession. Yes there are some differences.
BTW, I have no real problem with the idea. PMC's are a tool, to be used for good or ill. The tool isn't the problem.
Due to weirdness in her campaign, my wife is doorbelling with volunteer bodyguards. (We can discuss this offline, if you like) I expect them to bring her home safely, same as the guys who hired BW expected them to bring home their principles. The difference is in degree, and in the setting of the mission.
Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2324
| Posted 9/18/2007 2:49 PM (GMT -4) | | | Fortunately we are miles from the Hilltop, which is in turn not nearly so bad as it used to be. The standing joke used to be if you bought a house on the Hilltop, the Realtor included a case of ammo as a closing gift. Lots of changes, both from the inside and out have made the Hilltop much safer and way less weird. Ten years ago we would make a food bank delivery to some poor old lady, and I would stay in the van so my white face wouldn't cause trouble. There would be gang lookouts posted on every corner, and on territory divides there would be one guy with a red bandana around his leg glaring at another guy across the street wearing a blue bandana as a do rag. Both wearing big baggy coats in the middle of summer, to hide their hardware.
The Crips and the Bloods are years now under truce, the church and urban organizations have really worked hard, the neighborhood patrols and the Nation of Islam and the Panthers organized watches, and the real estate boom made properties worth rebuilding. Much different now.
The really sad part is we are in University Place, which is where the rich folks (and we) live. Which shows ignorance and hate recognize no economic boundaries.
Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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MichaelEhart
Sage
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 2324
| Posted 9/18/2007 3:29 PM (GMT -4) | | Looks like they are trying to kick everyone out--- this could be the only way they can get us to leave, or at least some of us. Clearly more going on here than meets the eye.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20831502/
Any time Maliki and al Sadr are singing from the same page, you know something's up.
Buy my book!
The Servant of the Manthycore available Nov. 17th from DEP
Illustrated by Rachel Marks, with an introduction by Michael Moorcock
Read me in 2007!
"The View From the Shotglass Floor" Ray Gun Revival, Feb 2007
"Voice of the Spoiler" The Sword Review, June 2007
"Servant of the Manthycore" The Sword Review, July 2007
"Darkling I Listen; and for Many a Time" Fear and Trembling, coming soon!
"Weaving Spiders Come Not Here" The Sword Review, August 2007
"Six Zombies Doing That Mick Jagger Strut" Damned in Dixie, Summer 2007
"Nothing But Our Tears" The Sword Review, September 2007
"Night of Shadows, Night of Knives" Magic and Mechanica, Fall 2007
"The Scarlet Colored Beast" The Sword Review, October 2007
"The Stars by Law, Forbidden" Unparalleled Journeys II, November 2007
"Who Comes for the Mother's Fruit" Every Day Fiction, November 2007
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